MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15

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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#101 » by tidho » Yesterday 6:07 pm

JN61 wrote:Yes. And that's what makes him so great.

6-15, 40% of his seasons he won championship.


Meanwhile Lebron is sitting at 20%. With superior supporting cast and abandoning weaker teams to play on better teams.


that's the really odd part. the purpose of hacking away at 6-0 is generally to elevate LeBron, but this highlights the disparity even further, lol.

maybe try just counting playoff series record with an 0-1 handed out for seasons they didn't get to the playoffs. perhaps in seasons that didn't result in championships LeBron teams went further (as his 6 Finals losses would suggest). I'm sure there's a way to make LeBron look better.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#102 » by dakomish23 » Yesterday 6:11 pm

Heat4lyf wrote:Rookie year
Second year injury
2 Washington years
Year coming out of retirement

Pretty much in his prime playing more than 18 games he went
6/10 in championships
10/10 scoring titles
6/6 FMVP
5/10 MVP
3/10 Steals leader
1/10 DPOY


It’s insane just how dominant he was
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#103 » by OdomFan » Yesterday 6:17 pm

loserX wrote:I tend to agree. Saying "Jordan is 6-0" is like saying "he's perfect, if you don't count all the times he lost". It's not all that meaningful.

There are plenty of good arguments in favor of Jordan being the GOAT, I'm not even sure I disagree. But "6-0" is not one of them. Reducing everything to one out-of-context number rarely is.

The 6-0 record is a Major part of his goat argument. I don't see how it isn't because it only helps highlight just how great of a player and leader he was that he was able to lead his Bulls over multiple Hall of Famers in those Finals series. He also led his Bulls over hall of famers/great teams like Ewing and the Knicks, Miller Pacers, Shaq/Magic and Morning+Hardaway/Heat. There is nothing wrong at all about bringing up his success in leading his team throughout their playoff rounds of their time together.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#104 » by loserX » Yesterday 6:24 pm

OdomFan wrote:
loserX wrote:I tend to agree. Saying "Jordan is 6-0" is like saying "he's perfect, if you don't count all the times he lost". It's not all that meaningful.

There are plenty of good arguments in favor of Jordan being the GOAT, I'm not even sure I disagree. But "6-0" is not one of them. Reducing everything to one out-of-context number rarely is.

The 6-0 record is a Major part of his goat argument. I don't see how it isn't because it only helps highlight just how great of a player and leader he was that he was able to lead his Bulls over multiple Hall of Famers in those Finals series. He also led his Bulls over hall of famers/great teams like Ewing and the Knicks, Miller Pacers, Shaq/Magic and Morning+Hardaway/Heat. There is nothing wrong at all about bringing up his success in leading his team throughout their playoff rounds of their time together.


Sure. But also include his failures, then. Six titles is meaningful, but he didn't play only six seasons, so "6-0" doesn't mean very much. You know who else is perfect if you ignore all the times they lost? Everyone.

It seems like LeBron more than anyone else gets judged by his failures while almost everyone else gets judged only by their successes. It's not an intellectually honest argument.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#105 » by Marrrcuss » Yesterday 6:26 pm

I have NBAtv just like yall do and i see how unskilled the 80s and 90s were so Im cool with anyone taking records out of context.

Let me ask though.....If lebrons team loses in the first round or before the finals this year, will it register or no? I mean, since first round losses dont mean anything and all.

I need you all to pick a cotdamn position and stick to it, lol
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#106 » by OdomFan » Yesterday 7:03 pm

loserX wrote:
OdomFan wrote:
loserX wrote:I tend to agree. Saying "Jordan is 6-0" is like saying "he's perfect, if you don't count all the times he lost". It's not all that meaningful.

There are plenty of good arguments in favor of Jordan being the GOAT, I'm not even sure I disagree. But "6-0" is not one of them. Reducing everything to one out-of-context number rarely is.

The 6-0 record is a Major part of his goat argument. I don't see how it isn't because it only helps highlight just how great of a player and leader he was that he was able to lead his Bulls over multiple Hall of Famers in those Finals series. He also led his Bulls over hall of famers/great teams like Ewing and the Knicks, Miller Pacers, Shaq/Magic and Morning+Hardaway/Heat. There is nothing wrong at all about bringing up his success in leading his team throughout their playoff rounds of their time together.


Sure. But also include his failures, then. Six titles is meaningful, but he didn't play only six seasons, so "6-0" doesn't mean very much. You know who else is perfect if you ignore all the times they lost? Everyone.

It seems like LeBron more than anyone else gets judged by his failures while almost everyone else gets judged only by their successes. It's not an intellectually honest argument.


Except it does mean very much. 6-0 is Jordan and the Bulls FInals record and people are going to continue to use it in Jordans argument because he earned that. What is the point of the playoffs? It's to work hard to reach the Finals, then once you're there you aim to bring that championship trophy home to your teams city. That alone is why the NBA Finals record deserves the respect of having its own stand alone record for each of these stars who earn their way into it.

I don't even know why people keep making the point of saying Jordan didn't play just 6 seasons. We're well aware of this.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#107 » by Marrrcuss » Yesterday 7:05 pm

I saw a meme that showed that he hasnt lost in a championship game, including college.

It neglects the fact that he was player of the year twice at UNC and couldnt get back to the Final Four without Worthy and Perkins.

If only pippen would have transferred in....
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#108 » by loserX » Yesterday 7:10 pm

OdomFan wrote:
loserX wrote:
OdomFan wrote:The 6-0 record is a Major part of his goat argument. I don't see how it isn't because it only helps highlight just how great of a player and leader he was that he was able to lead his Bulls over multiple Hall of Famers in those Finals series. He also led his Bulls over hall of famers/great teams like Ewing and the Knicks, Miller Pacers, Shaq/Magic and Morning+Hardaway/Heat. There is nothing wrong at all about bringing up his success in leading his team throughout their playoff rounds of their time together.


Sure. But also include his failures, then. Six titles is meaningful, but he didn't play only six seasons, so "6-0" doesn't mean very much. You know who else is perfect if you ignore all the times they lost? Everyone.

It seems like LeBron more than anyone else gets judged by his failures while almost everyone else gets judged only by their successes. It's not an intellectually honest argument.


Except it does mean very much. 6-0 is Jordan and the Bulls FInals record and people are going to continue to use it in Jordans argument because he earned that. What is the point of the playoffs? It's to work hard to reach the Finals, then once you're there you aim to bring that championship trophy home to your teams city. That alone is why the NBA Finals record deserves the respect of having its own stand alone record for each of these stars who earn their way into it.


Not really. It's just a way of hand-waving away all the times Jordan lost by turning them into a "-0".

I agree with you that people are going to continue to make the argument. That doesn't make it a good argument.

Go ahead, give him credit for those 6 titles, he absolutely deserves it. Saying "6-0" frames it in such a way that it wipes away all his losses in earlier rounds as though they don't count.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#109 » by OriginalRed » Yesterday 7:24 pm

Pg81 wrote:
OriginalRed wrote:6/15 is still better than 4/17.


Is it though?


Uh yes?

Who wouldn't take 6 championships in a 15 year stretch over 4 championships over a 17 year stretch?
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#110 » by OdomFan » Yesterday 7:27 pm

loserX wrote:
OdomFan wrote:
loserX wrote:
Sure. But also include his failures, then. Six titles is meaningful, but he didn't play only six seasons, so "6-0" doesn't mean very much. You know who else is perfect if you ignore all the times they lost? Everyone.

It seems like LeBron more than anyone else gets judged by his failures while almost everyone else gets judged only by their successes. It's not an intellectually honest argument.


Except it does mean very much. 6-0 is Jordan and the Bulls FInals record and people are going to continue to use it in Jordans argument because he earned that. What is the point of the playoffs? It's to work hard to reach the Finals, then once you're there you aim to bring that championship trophy home to your teams city. That alone is why the NBA Finals record deserves the respect of having its own stand alone record for each of these stars who earn their way into it.


Not really. It's just a way of hand-waving away all the times Jordan lost by turning them into a "-0".

I agree with you that people are going to continue to make the argument. That doesn't make it a good argument.

Go ahead, give him credit for those 6 titles, he absolutely deserves it. Saying "6-0" frames it in such a way that it wipes away all his losses in earlier rounds as though they don't count.


I think you're just over thinking something very simple. 6-0 is the teams NBA FInals record. Not entire playoff record with Michael Jordan. I have never once heard or read anyone say on the internet that Jordans entire playoff career is 6-0. People are not stupid, we're aware that they lost in the 80s and in 1990. However there's no reason to mention that when the conversation is about his teams success in the NBA Finals round. If that argument doesn't make any sense to you than so be it.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#111 » by loserX » Yesterday 7:40 pm

OdomFan wrote:
loserX wrote:
OdomFan wrote:
Except it does mean very much. 6-0 is Jordan and the Bulls FInals record and people are going to continue to use it in Jordans argument because he earned that. What is the point of the playoffs? It's to work hard to reach the Finals, then once you're there you aim to bring that championship trophy home to your teams city. That alone is why the NBA Finals record deserves the respect of having its own stand alone record for each of these stars who earn their way into it.


Not really. It's just a way of hand-waving away all the times Jordan lost by turning them into a "-0".

I agree with you that people are going to continue to make the argument. That doesn't make it a good argument.

Go ahead, give him credit for those 6 titles, he absolutely deserves it. Saying "6-0" frames it in such a way that it wipes away all his losses in earlier rounds as though they don't count.


I think you're just over thinking something very simple. 6-0 is the teams NBA FInals record. Not entire playoff record with Michael Jordan. I have never once heard or read anyone say on the internet that Jordans entire playoff career is 6-0. People are not stupid, we're aware that they lost in the 80s and in 1990. However there's no reason to mention that when the conversation is about his teams success in the NBA Finals round. If that argument doesn't make any sense to you than so be it.


Right, except I think that "finals record" is an artificial set of fenceposts that gets used because it allows those arguing pro-Jordan to ignore all the times he lost. There is no reason to make the conversation about finals performance exclusively, except to hand-wave the losses away.

Obviously this is not how everyone feels; some people think this is a good argument. I'm not one of them, and as you say, so be it :beer:
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#112 » by OdomFan » Yesterday 7:52 pm

loserX wrote:
OdomFan wrote:
loserX wrote:
Not really. It's just a way of hand-waving away all the times Jordan lost by turning them into a "-0".

I agree with you that people are going to continue to make the argument. That doesn't make it a good argument.

Go ahead, give him credit for those 6 titles, he absolutely deserves it. Saying "6-0" frames it in such a way that it wipes away all his losses in earlier rounds as though they don't count.


I think you're just over thinking something very simple. 6-0 is the teams NBA FInals record. Not entire playoff record with Michael Jordan. I have never once heard or read anyone say on the internet that Jordans entire playoff career is 6-0. People are not stupid, we're aware that they lost in the 80s and in 1990. However there's no reason to mention that when the conversation is about his teams success in the NBA Finals round. If that argument doesn't make any sense to you than so be it.


Right, except I think that "finals record" is an artificial set of fenceposts that gets used because it allows those arguing pro-Jordan to ignore all the times he lost. There is no reason to make the conversation about finals performance exclusively, except to hand-wave the losses away.

Obviously this is not how everyone feels; some people think this is a good argument. I'm not one of them, and as you say, so be it :beer:

and that's why I think you're over thinking things because nobody is ignoring the fact that Jordans Bulls lost in the 80s or 1990. The Finals record is stand alone because its the championship round with the f'n trophy on the line. Which is what every team in the league works it's butt for year after year throughout each era.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#113 » by kali323 » Yesterday 8:18 pm

MJ never lost a series when he had home court advantage
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#114 » by HomoSapien » Yesterday 8:34 pm

I always hate threads where the OP is clearly gunning for And 1's. When people say he's 6-0, it's almost always followed by the phrase "in the finals" and if it isn't it's clear what people mean by it.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#115 » by art_tatum » Yesterday 8:36 pm

Wait so all I got out of this thread was that Jordan was 6/10 when healthy. That's 60%.
Damn I'm moving him further Up and away from number 2 on my list.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#116 » by KyRo23 » Yesterday 8:39 pm

Marrrcuss wrote:I have NBAtv just like yall do and i see how unskilled the 80s and 90s were so Im cool with anyone taking records out of context.

Let me ask though.....If lebrons team loses in the first round or before the finals this year, will it register or no? I mean, since first round losses dont mean anything and all.

I need you all to pick a cotdamn position and stick to it, lol


I'm surprised how many people in this thread seem to have the viewpoint of losing in the finals is worse than losing in earlier rounds or even not making the playoffs.

It makes it seem like someone like LeBron losing in 2018 after his crazy playoff run is worse than when he didn't make the playoffs 2 years ago because it tarnishes his finals record. Just bizarre.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#117 » by KrAzY3 » Yesterday 8:43 pm

kali323 wrote:MJ never lost a series when he had home court advantage

Can anyone verify this? That sounds pretty damn impressive, but also kind of hard to fathom. Heck, I remember a 66 win LeBron team with home court advantage losing to my Magic team (that went on to the Finals) when our second best player was Rashard Lewis, and our third best player was hurt.

Winning every time your team is the favorite would be an astounding feat.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#118 » by Ayatollahmugsy » Yesterday 8:48 pm

Poor effort, OP. You should probably delete this and avoid further embarrassment. Michael Jordan is 6-0 in the NBA Finals. Everybody knows that. You like LeBron or whoever, fine, but you just make yourself sound ignorant of NBA history when you try to denigrate MJ.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#119 » by TheBobster » Yesterday 8:54 pm

When Michael Jordan was on a team good enough to get to the Finals they were about as close to a lock to win as a team could be. Like the Mikan Lakers (5-0) and the Russell Celtics (11-1).

You can't say the same about James (4-6), Kareem (6-4), Magic (5-4) or Bird (3-2).

Is this the way to measure the GOAT? No, probably not.
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Re: MJ's record is not 6-0, its 6-15 

Post#120 » by G35 » Yesterday 9:07 pm

KyRo23 wrote:
Marrrcuss wrote:I have NBAtv just like yall do and i see how unskilled the 80s and 90s were so Im cool with anyone taking records out of context.

Let me ask though.....If lebrons team loses in the first round or before the finals this year, will it register or no? I mean, since first round losses dont mean anything and all.

I need you all to pick a cotdamn position and stick to it, lol


I'm surprised how many people in this thread seem to have the viewpoint of losing in the finals is worse than losing in earlier rounds or even not making the playoffs.

It makes it seem like someone like LeBron losing in 2018 after his crazy playoff run is worse than when he didn't make the playoffs 2 years ago because it tarnishes his finals record. Just bizarre.



So why isn't Jerry West higher on the All time list.

He went nine NBA finals...is the only player to get voted FMVP for a losing team....has the finals record for PPG at 46.3

Why isn't Jerry West in the top five or at least top 10 if going to the finals is so important regardless if you win or not......
I'm so tired of the typical......

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