Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago

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Did Minnesota make a mistake not tanking?

Yes
69
47%
No
79
53%
 
Total votes: 148

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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#41 » by jpatrick » Tue May 11, 2021 5:58 pm

flranger wrote:Would you really prefer to go into next season with an unprotected #1 in 2022 hanging over your head going to Golden State?


That would mean they added a top three pick in a draft with four potential stars. Add that to a core of Edwards, Towns, and Russell, which has won at a decent clip when healthy (and Finch in charge). So yes, I would rather give up next years pick unprotected. I think given further improvement of Edwards, better health, and a top three pick, we’re good shape for at least a play-in game appearance.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#42 » by Klomp » Tue May 11, 2021 6:05 pm

jpatrick wrote:
flranger wrote:Would you really prefer to go into next season with an unprotected #1 in 2022 hanging over your head going to Golden State?


That would mean they added a top three pick in a draft with four potential stars. Add that to a core of Edwards, Towns, and Russell, which has won at a decent clip when healthy (and Finch in charge). So yes, I would rather give up next years pick unprotected. I think given further improvement of Edwards, better health, and a top three pick, we’re good shape for at least a play-in game appearance.

"When healthy" being the key words. There is no guarantee of that. Minnesota has actually been one of the healthiest teams in the league this season, I believe only 6 teams have been less so (it's the timing and the key players that have unfortunately sucked). I'm not sure I want to count on that happening again.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#43 » by Lamak » Tue May 11, 2021 7:17 pm

minnesota is in a terrible spot and not sure what direction, just realized their salary cap situation is terrible
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#44 » by cupcakesnake » Tue May 11, 2021 7:23 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
jamaalstar21 wrote:Advising Minnesota, of all teams, that they should prioritize losing and building through the draft is hilarious. OP think about who you're talking to! This advice would be standard for pretty much any other franchise.

The bad move was already made (giving up a way too lightly protected pick in the Russell-Wiggins trade. Still don't understand how they couldn't have gotten this pick top 8 protected or at least top 5). .


I think it’s because the Wolves were a little desperate at the time and revealed their hand. Towns wanted his buddy Russell, the Warriors knew that so they leveraged that for light protections on the pick. And the Wolves convinced themselves that a Towns/Russell combo would be competing for a playoff spot anyways so they didn’t have to worry as much.

But we shouldn’t ignore that a lot of people in the media and on this forum thought Minnesota still won that trade. I personally thought Russell was an overrated player with a max contract attached and couldn’t figure out why any team would want him so badly, others thought Russell was a star on the rise.


It was just another dumb decision in a long line of other dumb decisions. Trying to cater to their star (who has gotten them exactly nowhere) by trading for an overpaid "all-star" (1 time, as a reserve, in the Eastern Conference). Then there were rumors they passed on Lamelo because DLo didn't want to play with him (which could still work out as Edwards has shown promise but it another example of letting the inmates run the asylum). They also gave Wiggins his max deal because he promised the owner he'd try harder.

Let's just face it: the franchise sucks. Everyone can say "they can't tank again, it's time to start winning" but that begs the question: how? Do you think they've tried to tank for the past 15 years? They just can't flip a switch and become good or they would have done it. They can only hope Taylor sells to Arod soon to (theoretically) end the misery.


To answer your last question about how we can start winning:
Our roster isn't that bad. I don't we were every going to be a playoff team this year, but healthy Towns and healthy Russell would have been a pretty high powered offense and a miserable, maybe league worst defense. We've been about a .500 ballclub when we're anything close to healthy this year. New coach + healthy Towns/Russell has had us as pretty potent on offense. If the coach and front office can prioritize defense at other positions (more Rubio, less Beasley, a defensive asset at the 4 spot, defensive development from Ant), this team should be okay next year. We really might have been okay this season, but like many teams this season, things played out quite badly for us.

The timing of everything is quite poor. The FO pretty much wanted to concede the pick this year, because they clearly thought our draft range was more likely to be late lottery. The plan wasn't to roll for half the season with our best players being a rookie and Ricky Rubio.

The beginning of the year felt like rock bottom (again), but I don't feel bad about the Wolves anymore. Our rookies this year were good. We get another year to see where we stand before we have to start trying to trade KAT next offseason. Wolves probably wont be back in the playoffs anytime soon, but we feel on the right track again.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#45 » by Metallikid » Tue May 11, 2021 7:51 pm

They have lost enough.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#46 » by Lalouie » Tue May 11, 2021 8:21 pm

isn't minnie tanking and minnie simply playing the same thing?
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#47 » by babyjax13 » Tue May 11, 2021 8:26 pm

I think this is a good argument for the NBA to freeze lottery odds at some point.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#48 » by slicedbread2 » Wed May 12, 2021 5:32 am

wolves_89 wrote:One other factor in the Wolves competing down the stretch is that I suspect Rosas wants to minimize the chances that the Warriors get a top 5 pick. When Minnesota had the worst record in the league, there was a 60% chance that GS could get pick 4 or 5. It is now looking like the chances will be under 10% that the pick will be in the top 5. In terms of job security for Rosas, the Wiggins trade can't be seen as a total disaster, which would happen if the pick turns into a star level prospect.


I know that Rosas was in a tough spot where he was trying to keep KAT happy by bringing in D'lo as things weren't looking too great, but it was complete and utter stupidity to add in a 1st+2nd when a straight swap of 2 players who needed to be moved elsewhere. At the very least just offer a 2nd and if Myers wanted more, Rosas should've walked away from the table as I don't think he'd be looking forward to seeing Russell and Curry being a horrible fit next to each other.

It's depressing that the dude didn't at least put a top 10 protections on the pick but well your down to the wire and the lottery balls are quite twisted as the unexpected can happen. Hopefully for Minnesota's sake they get to keep their pick this year and add another solid piece to the blossoming core of KAT+Ant+D'lo and continue to develop as they've found a great coach in Chris Finch. I'll never forget the wild disrespect Finch was being given when he was hired immediately and people were harassing him and the T-Wolves for not doing a job search.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#49 » by Klomp » Wed May 12, 2021 5:42 am

wolves_89 wrote:One other factor in the Wolves competing down the stretch is that I suspect Rosas wants to minimize the chances that the Warriors get a top 5 pick. When Minnesota had the worst record in the league, there was a 60% chance that GS could get pick 4 or 5. It is now looking like the chances will be under 10% that the pick will be in the top 5. In terms of job security for Rosas, the Wiggins trade can't be seen as a total disaster, which would happen if the pick turns into a star level prospect.

Bingo.

Best odds meant GS had 59.9% chance to get 4th or 5th, while Minnesota had just 40.1% to get Top 3. Now Minnesota has 27.6% chance for Top 3, but GS only has 9.6% chance at 4th or 5th.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#50 » by durden_tyler » Wed May 12, 2021 5:53 am

Always a mistake not to tank. This will bite them long-term.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#51 » by DelAbbot » Wed May 12, 2021 5:56 am

Klomp wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:One other factor in the Wolves competing down the stretch is that I suspect Rosas wants to minimize the chances that the Warriors get a top 5 pick. When Minnesota had the worst record in the league, there was a 60% chance that GS could get pick 4 or 5. It is now looking like the chances will be under 10% that the pick will be in the top 5. In terms of job security for Rosas, the Wiggins trade can't be seen as a total disaster, which would happen if the pick turns into a star level prospect.

Bingo.

Best odds meant GS had 59.9% chance to get 4th or 5th, while Minnesota had just 40.1% to get Top 3. Now Minnesota has 27.6% chance for Top 3, but GS only has 9.6% chance at 4th or 5th.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#52 » by Lalouie » Wed May 12, 2021 5:57 am

it would be close to impossible to be worse than hou or det

maybe minnie tried really tried as hard as they could but the other two teams were better at it
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#53 » by 2LeTTeRS » Wed May 12, 2021 6:53 am

Lamak wrote:minnesota is in a terrible spot and not sure what direction, just realized their salary cap situation is terrible


It's not so bad. There are no significant free agents this summer so assuming they lose their pick and don't add any more than $5 mil in salary for the 2022-23 season than they can be down to approximately $80 mil in salaries committed next July by not picking up the guaranteed portion of Hernangomez's deal (seems that the salary for 2022-23 is non-guaranteed in his deal) and rescinding Rubio's nearly $27 mil cap hit along with Okogie and Layman. That's only a few minor moves away from adding a major free agent to play with the current core.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#54 » by 2LeTTeRS » Wed May 12, 2021 7:12 am

The more I think about it losing the pick this year could be a good thing. Use the MLE to overpay on 1 year deals to vets that can help you win now (i.e. $6 mil of the MLE to Dwight or Nerlens Noel with the rest going to another vet like Nicolas Batum or T.J. McConnell) and hope to play well enough to attract a star the next summer (hopefully Randle if he can sustain his production).

KAT, Randle, Beasley, Edwards, and Russell would be a hell of a core.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#55 » by floppymoose » Wed May 12, 2021 12:15 pm

Outside wrote:As a Warriors fan, I voted no :) One more win would be great!

To Wolves fans, bless you. I don't follow them closely enough to know what the deal is, but to have as many top picks as they've had in recent years and still be this low has to be disheartening. It is unfathomable to me that Minny gave the Warriors a first round pick in the Russell-Wiggins trade. It is beyond unfathomable that it is only top-3 protected. You got fleeced.

I don't know if they were on the road to respectability at the time, but Flip Saunders illness and death had to mess up the front office something awful. The Thibs experiment was a disaster. KAT seems like a decent guy, and I really feel for him after all he and his family have been through. Anthony Edwards looks like a highlight machine, and I hope he works on his skills and leverages his athleticism to develop into a really good player, kind of like Jaylen Brown. It would be great is they could build a young core and then bring a top vet in to help them break out, like Phoenix has done. I truly root for them to get better. But, sorry, I want your pick this year to be in the 4-6 range.


I'm happy with wherever it lands. If MIN keeps the pick, it is unprotected next season. Having a chance at #1 is fun. :)
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#56 » by rand » Wed May 12, 2021 12:18 pm

floppymoose wrote:
Outside wrote:As a Warriors fan, I voted no :) One more win would be great!

To Wolves fans, bless you. I don't follow them closely enough to know what the deal is, but to have as many top picks as they've had in recent years and still be this low has to be disheartening. It is unfathomable to me that Minny gave the Warriors a first round pick in the Russell-Wiggins trade. It is beyond unfathomable that it is only top-3 protected. You got fleeced.

I don't know if they were on the road to respectability at the time, but Flip Saunders illness and death had to mess up the front office something awful. The Thibs experiment was a disaster. KAT seems like a decent guy, and I really feel for him after all he and his family have been through. Anthony Edwards looks like a highlight machine, and I hope he works on his skills and leverages his athleticism to develop into a really good player, kind of like Jaylen Brown. It would be great is they could build a young core and then bring a top vet in to help them break out, like Phoenix has done. I truly root for them to get better. But, sorry, I want your pick this year to be in the 4-6 range.


I'm happy with wherever it lands. If MIN keeps the pick, it is unprotected next season. Having a chance at #1 is fun. :)

That's the spirit!

But I think it's exceedingly unlikely that MIN is winning the #1 pick next year. This roster with Chris Finch is a playoff contender. Add one of the top-3 picks in this draft and they'd only be better.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#57 » by floppymoose » Wed May 12, 2021 12:22 pm

rand wrote:But I think it's exceedingly unlikely that MIN is winning the #1 pick next year. This roster with Chris Finch is a playoff contender. Add one of the top-3 picks in this draft and they'd only be better.


But you never really know. GSW was a sure fire playoff team and then Klay tore his achilles. Things happen and any unprotected pick has a shot at turning into #1.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#58 » by _AIJ_ » Wed May 12, 2021 1:58 pm

Lalouie wrote:it would be close to impossible to be worse than hou or det

maybe minnie tried really tried as hard as they could but the other two teams were better at it

Or you just dont know the story at all? Their core were legit injured or hit with Covid unlike these other teams with phantom injuries. They tried to win games but the roster is just flawed. No way in **** they are tanking. You just dont know
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#59 » by RoyceDa59 » Wed May 12, 2021 2:03 pm

Finally have a nice core but of the 3, I like Edwards the most. Kid is special.

Still not sure what to make of KAT, or Russell for that matter. Would love to see how they handle playoff basketball.
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Re: Minnesota had the worst record in the league 3 weeks ago 

Post#60 » by TheZachAttack » Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm

The Wolves are basically 13-8* with D Lo & Towns in the lineup together and a portion of that is with Edwards not what he is now or not playing or 1 or both of KAT / D Lo leaving games early injured or playing injured.

*This includes a last second loss to the Kings where the Kings players foot was out of bounds but the call was missed.

That's a ~.620 win percentage which would be good for 5th in the West. Developing that and building that case is what's important. The Wolves can make a Suns type pitch to incoming acquisitions.

The Wolves will also add Bolmaro who Schmitz and others are saying would be a lottery pick in this draft with his development.

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