Better duo - Jokic+Murray or Jokic+Mpj

[GSP]

Jokic and Mpj just combined for 60, 17, 7 on .723ts and have been clicking since Jamal went down

which duo would you rather have?

[Pistol_Pete]

Definitely Murray and Joker. Years of play together, plus they actually mesh. MPJ is mostly a one on one guy. Still raw, takes a lot of ill advised shots, but he’ll get there. The reason this discussion is even taking place is because of Murrays inconsistent play this year, and MPJ’s rise in his absence.

[dygaction]

The three of them are a scary combo. MPJ compliment these two perfectly with historic efficiency potential.

[_qubik]

Its a Wing league, MPJ is already a great offensive player, that can get his shot over pretty much any defender, because he has a nice touch and is pretty tall.

MPJ is a better scorer than Murray, Jokic the best passer between them, and a team can have only so much bad defenders. Murray should be the odd man out. He of course have a lot of value, they should seek for a player in the mould of Jrue Holiday, Jimmy Butler, that can contribute both ends of the floor, and get his shot sometimes

[djsunyc]

murray had some grown man playoff games.

[Mogspan]

Meant to vote Jokić + MPJ now and long-term instead of for the top option

[RRFB]

It’s easy to forget how much chemistry Jokic and Murray have. They might run the most potent two-man in the game in the league, and it’s playoff tested.

Jokic and MPJ aren’t on that level yet as a duo, but it’s not a stretch to say they could get there.

[Golden Knight]

It’s easy to forget how much chemistry Jokic and Murray have. They might run the most potent two-man in the game in the league, and it’s playoff tested.

Jokic and MPJ aren’t on that level yet as a duo, but it’s not a stretch to say they could get there.

Yeah sometimes it's crazy to see the chemistry and how much Jokic trust Murray, it feels like they've been playing together since they were kids.

[Young gun 6]

Both combo's are bad defensively but Jokic + MPJ is borderline unplayable at times with their defense.

I rate all 3 really highly. Might even have Jokic as the best player in the league right now but god when you watch them on defense Jokic and MPJ really need to be combining for 50+ on 60-65% TS to be competitive at times with how many points they leak on the defensive end.

Although people are pointing to the MPJ and Jokic offense as carrying them through this period without Murray, it's actually the elite defense of AG that's been the difference in my opinion.

Denver are 18-5 (.783) with AG playing and 27-19 (.587) without him. That also incorporates a lot of games where AG has played and Murray, Barton, Millsap etc haven't.

[Lala870]

Wiggins/KAT easily










Wait a minute....wrong thread

[TinmanZBoy]

with Murray, Jokic is unguardable in dissecting any team's defense..
the three together are very good offense, almost perfect fit...
but on defense, a big meh...

[Michael Jordan]

Murray + Jokic took out the Clippers in the playoffs so its hard to say MPJ + Jokic just off a regular season stretch.

We'll see how this duo performs in the first round against Mavs/Blazers.

[CodeBreaker]

Murray + Jokic is playoff tested. Let's see MPJ + Jokic first

[Up-And-Coming]

MPJ/Jokic probably for the future but Murray is a playoff performer. The Nuggets desperately need defense though but a Murray/MPJ/Jokic trio is great offensively.

Idk, if you were the Bucks and Nuggets would you do a Jrue Holiday for Jamal Murray swap???

[Mavrelous]

MPJ is an off the ball player mainly, Murray is the one you go to when you're and need to create off the dribble, for the PO, it's Murray all the way, but there's no reason all 3 should fit perfectly together.

[donnieme]

Jokic and Murray is a legit matchup headache. You go smallball because Murray is abusing your center then Jokic starts abusing the small center so you go big to match Jokic and Murray goes back to abusing him. Clippers contained Murray for the first couple games but had to ease up to go double Jokic who was completely destroying Harrell then Murray went off. In the playoffs they had this thing where very few teams ever felt comfortable in the matchup.

Against the Lakers the issue of having a guy like Marc Gasol frustrating Jokic would be reduced if Murray was healthy and in playoff form

[FinnTheHuman]

It’s weird. Most of the time, the best offense is Jokic post ups, not Jokic/Murray pick n roll, because Murray is not as efficient as Jokic is on-ball. So most of the time the Nuggets run Murray/Jokic PnR, it’s not their best play, but they do it to implement some variety.

We’ve seen Nuggets offense working better now just by doing everything through Jokic on-ball with some Campazzo on-ball sprinkled on top of that, but will that be better come playoff time, or will the Nuggets miss that option of just giving Murray the ball and sending him Jokic to set the pick? I believe they actually won’t miss it in the PO all that much because of the emergence of MPJ, but I might be wrong.

[cupcakesnake]

Both combo's are bad defensively but Jokic + MPJ is borderline unplayable at times with their defense.

I get this in theory, but I think I've watched every Denver game since Murray went down and the MPJ/Joker combo has been fine on defense. Maybe we give credit to Gordon joining the team at that time, but "borderline unplayable" doesn't seem feel based on reality/results or watching.

Jokic straight up looks pretty good at defense this year. He's not a rim protector because he can't jump. But he's quicker this year and stays extremely active with his hands and feet on the backline. You'll always want a little more on defense from the center position, but Jokic works pretty hard to not be a liability and it works. MPJ is a mixed bag but clearly has taken a mini-leap, both in terms of understanding Malone's defensive schemes/rotations, and his physical confidence. MPJ is an explosive help defender in some settings. I still would grade him out as neutral or a slight negative, but "unplayable" he is not.

In the 365 minutes that MPJ and Jokic play without Gordon, they have a net rating of -9.67 and a horrible defensive rating of 125.48. Strangely, when all 3 (Murray) were healthy before the Gordon trade, that trio survived fine. Swap Millsap in with MPJ/Jokic (small sample size), and they are obliterating opponents (+53.15net in games where are 3 have played) and not letting people score (87 defensive rating). The more I look at different combos the more complicated the puzzle becomes, but I don't think there's strong evidence that Jokic/MPJ are unplayable on defense. Denver probably needs to balance them with another defender in the frontcourt most of the time, but they're well equipped to do that with Millsap and Green on the bench. They could use another defensive wing, but that's true of every team.


Addressing OP:
Murray/Jokic (+6.39 netrtg) have outplayed MPJ/Jokic (+1.09). All 3 of them together (+14.89) have been ridiculous, which is one of the reasons the Murray injury suckkkkkks. MPJ gives Denver more size, (no one is touching his pull up jumper when he elevates) but Murray is the much smarter player. They both look good in the 2-man game with Jokic, but Murray makes it feel more 3-dimensional because he can make a wider variety of reads off screens. Murray can also weaponize Joker as a finisher with superior passing. But physically, MPJ is extremely overwhelming for defenses as both a pull up shooter, and as a cutter next to Jokic. As weapons for Jokic, Murray is like a katana, and MPJ is like some sort of giant pole axe.