NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 3: The Chef, The Process, or The Joker?

[-Sammy-]

The finalists have been announced; who do you like?



RealGM MVP thread

2020-21 NBA MVP Award Tracker

RealGM MVP Poll Results (poll closed 23 May 2021)

[FinnTheHuman]

Aren’t the 3 finalists already announced? It’s between Jokic, Curry and Embiid, and it’s Jokic ofc

[-Sammy-]

Aren’t the 3 finalists already announced? It’s between Jokic, Curry and Embiid, and it’s Jokic ofc

Thank you! It's been quite the week for me, and I missed the announcement. I'll reset the poll.

[eminence]

Gotta be Jokic. Bummed Gobert wasn't a finalist though

[xdrta+]

Aren’t the 3 finalists already announced? It’s between Jokic, Curry and Embiid, and it’s Jokic ofc

It's been said before, there are no "finalists." The votes are in, these are the three top vote-getters. And you're right, it's obviously Jokic (well-deserved.)

[BoatsNZones]

Enough votes are gathered to know it went Jokic, Embiid, Curry, Giannis, CP.

[Jazztop]

Jokic wins by default. But clearly with 6 more games Embiid would have been MVP

[LloydFree]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

[cupcakesnake]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Wes Unseld was swept by the Knicks in 1969
Moses was swept in a shorter series (0-2) in 1979

Some "gentleman's sweeps".
- Westbrook lost 4-1 in 2017
- Wilt lost 4-1 in 1966

Only a handful of other MVPs have lost in the first round:
- Dirk in 2007
- Bob Petit in 1959
- Bob McAdoo in 1975
- Moses in 1982
- Bill Walton in 1978

I might have missed a few.

[LloydFree]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Wes Unseld was swept by the Knicks in 1969
Moses was swept in a shorter series (0-2) in 1979

Some "gentleman's sweeps".
- Westbrook lost 4-1 in 2017
- Wilt lost 4-1 in 1966

Only a handful of other MVPs have lost in the first round:
- Dirk in 2007
- Bob Petit in 1959
- Bob McAdoo in 1975
- Moses in 1982
- Bill Walton in 1978

I might have missed a few.

It fgures the only sweep was Unseld's fraudulent '69 MVP.

[The Rebel]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Has an MVP ever went into the playoffs missing 3 of their top 4 guards including the starting guards one of which is the team's 2nd best player?

[LloydFree]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Has an MVP ever went into the playoffs missing 3 of their top 4 guards including the starting guards one of which is the team's 2nd best player?

I don't want to hear these excuses. James Harden has won series with MASH units in the past. And Lebron James won Finals games without the 2nd and 3rd best player, on a what was basically a just a 3 man team to begin with. If you're the MVP, go win some games against a 6th seed in the 1st round.

[Sgt Major]

Dude one game has been played so far in the series, are you high?

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic wins by default. But clearly with 6 more games Embiid would have been MVP

No Embiid could have played 72 games it still would have been Jokic. Only that way it could have been real close, not like this.

[BelgradeNugget]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

So what if he looses. What does it mean, that he didn't deserve it? Who should have won it, the one that didn't make playoffs or the one that missed 1/3 of the season?

[BelgradeNugget]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Has an MVP ever went into the playoffs missing 3 of their top 4 guards including the starting guards one of which is the team's 2nd best player?

I don't want to hear these excuses. James Harden has won series with MASH units in the past. And Lebron James won Finals games without the 2nd and 3rd best player, on a what was basically a just a 3 man team to begin with. If you're the MVP, go win some games against a 6th seed in the 1st round.

Has he ever made it to the WCF without all-star, all-nba or all-defense teammate with him?

[The Rebel]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Has an MVP ever went into the playoffs missing 3 of their top 4 guards including the starting guards one of which is the team's 2nd best player?

I don't want to hear these excuses. James Harden has won series with MASH units in the past. And Lebron James won Finals games without the 2nd and 3rd best player, on a what was basically a just a 3 man team to begin with. If you're the MVP, go win some games against a 6th seed in the 1st round.

Wow, and people think you have to go to twitter or espn for such clown takes.

I notice you didn't answer the question, which does not surprise me, you seem to have trouble remembering basketball is a team game, at least until it comes to defending Embiid.

What finals did LeBron win with a 3 man team? What finals has LeBron win without 2 other all stars?

When is the last time Harden or any other top player made it past the 1st round without a single teammate that had been an all star within the last couple of years before their series? When have they ever made it out of the 1st round while missing their 2nd best player and their entire rotation at any position? Sorry you cannot use Jokic who did make it without all-stars and missing the entire SG rotation last year. Prior to that? Oh wait that was Jokic as well. Before that was Dirk, 10 years ago, but I cannot seem to find a single time with the guys you mention. Hell your big couldn't win a game last year in the playoffs without his starting PG.

Fact is the Nuggets are starting their 3rd string PG who is a 30 year old undrafted free agent rookie, and a guy who Was on a 10 day contract a month ago. Nobody but Jokic is held to expectations of winning a playoff series in his position so why is that? Is it his race? His appearance? Him being in a small market? Him being better than your boy? Why does he have standards that you hold nobody else too?

[kuclas]

Jokic wins by default. But clearly with 6 more games Embiid would have been MVP

No Embiid could have played 72 games it still would have been Jokic. Only that way it could have been real close, not like this.

Hard to predict. The sixers record with Embiid something ridiculous 39-12 or something like that). They were 10-11 in games without him. That’s missing Ben Simmons many of those games. Simmons missed 14 games this season.

Who’s to say if Sixers have the best record in the league and Embiid plays 80%. Lots of what ifs.

People like to focus on offense. I like to focus on everything. Look at Jokic on/off numbers compared to Embiid. Sixers offense is 14th cause Embiid missed so many games. But with him playing. They are just as efficient as a bucks or Nets run offense. His missing so many games cause Sixers offensive rating to go down.

Just look at the on/off first game. Embiid in foul trouble only reason game was close. When Embiid in the game. He was plus 20.

Jokic was -13 despite 34/16 numbers on pretty good efficiency.

Embiid last playoffs put up 30/10 true shooting percentage 60% and still in my opinion “sucked”. CAuse his on/off numbers were negative.

So on/off numbers matter when you main usage guy plays 30 plus minutes

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

As a Sixers fan, I feel like Embiid had a shot before all the games he missed. It could have been Curry had he at least got the W's past the play in game. With the way the circumstances have went and with how insanely awesome Jokic has been for Denver all year long, I don't see how he doesn't win it. He's earned it and it's a well deserved honor for him. Great player.

[HotRocks34]

Has the MVP ever been swept out of the playoffs in the first round?

Kareem (1976 MVP) didn't make the playoffs, the only MVP in NBA history to come from a team that did not make the playoffs that season.
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Here's a way to understand the magnitude of what Jokic accomplished this year. In the history of the sport going back to at least 1974 (season when Box Plus Minus is first calculated, looking back), there are only five seasons (before Jokic this year) that attained the following metrics:

31 PER
.300 WS48
11 BPM

Here are those seasons, in chronological order, along with how the player fared in the MVP voting.


1988 Jordan.................31.7 PER..........308 WS48............12.96 BPM............................Won MVP
1991 Jordan.................31.6 PER..........321 WS48............12.01 BPM............................Won MVP
2009 LeBron.................31.7 PER..........318 WS48............13.24 BPM............................Won MVP
2013 LeBron.................31.6 PER..........322 WS48............11.71 BPM............................Won MVP
2016 Curry...................31.5 PER..........318 WS48............11.94 BPM............................Won MVP
2021 Jokic...................31.3 PER..........301 WS48............11.68 BPM............................Will win MVP


Embiid (30.3 PER; .266 WS48; 7.2 BPM) and Curry (26.3 PER; .201 WS48; 8.1 BPM) had excellent years, especially Embiid, but not at the level of Jokic. And when you throw in the 20+ missed games for Embiid to Jokic's zero missed games, there was no chance anyone but Jokic was going to win the award.