Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story

Moderators: infinite11285, ken6199, Domejandro, -Sammy-, zimpy27, bwgood77, KingDavid, Dirk, jamaalstar21

DoItALL9
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,410
And1: 944
Joined: Oct 08, 2016
       

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#121 » by DoItALL9 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:42 am

MJ gave him big praise during the documentary.

Is he going to address sitting on the bench when Jackson looked to Kukoc for the game winning shot? He already said he'd do it all over again.

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app
Got Nuffin
Senior
Posts: 598
And1: 467
Joined: Apr 19, 2014
     

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#122 » by Got Nuffin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:53 am

Goose egg wrote:
Got Nuffin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


Just came in to agree with this. Strange that Pippen rankled at being called a 'sidekick' to the GOAT, yet on any contending team he would also have been a 'sidekick' or a 1b. He never had the offensive chops the way Kawhi today does to just carry a team to contention.

I also don't think he develops into the player he became without MJ and Phil, because his personality in the early days was seen as 'soft' and going to some badly run team losing 50 games every year would likely do nothing to counter that.

Pippen was one of the best players of that era because he was an ideal sidekick for any offensive-minded All Star and his defensive skill was incredible.


scottie led 94 bulls to 2 seed on 22/8/5 with 3steals a game. and they absolutely were in contention, bad reffing eliminated them vs the knicks who then lost 4-3 vs the eventual champion rockets


A second round and out team is usually not called being in contention and the Knicks won game 7 by double figures. What if scenarios don't count. The Bulls were the 3 seed.

Then in the 94-95 season the Bulls led by Pippen pretty much stank it up before a slightly chubby Jordan re-joined them for the last quarter of the season and they went on a 13-4 winning streak, finishing the season 47-35. They were 23-25 at the All Star break. Hardly a contender by anyones book!
Sprewell4Three
General Manager
Posts: 8,490
And1: 3,830
Joined: Apr 08, 2011

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#123 » by Sprewell4Three » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:15 am

Idk I feel like Pippen is being overrated by some of y’all. Did y’all actually watch Pippen play ? I mean I remember always thinking he was just a solid player. Always felt like MJ was the main catalyst on those Bulls teams.
User avatar
Plutonashfan
Starter
Posts: 2,385
And1: 2,102
Joined: Jun 10, 2015
     

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#124 » by Plutonashfan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:39 am

Even with this book the stuff about him refusing to come into a game winning situation because Phil drew up a play for Toni is a really, realy bad look. Hell Jordan wasn't even there.
The Champ is HERE!!!
gst8
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,682
And1: 3,370
Joined: Dec 23, 2003

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#125 » by gst8 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:46 am

I’ve got 90’s Bulls fatigue already. Give it a couple years Scottie.
twyzted
Pro Prospect
Posts: 809
And1: 830
Joined: Jun 01, 2018
     

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#126 » by twyzted » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:47 am

Got Nuffin wrote:
Goose egg wrote:
Got Nuffin wrote:
Just came in to agree with this. Strange that Pippen rankled at being called a 'sidekick' to the GOAT, yet on any contending team he would also have been a 'sidekick' or a 1b. He never had the offensive chops the way Kawhi today does to just carry a team to contention.

I also don't think he develops into the player he became without MJ and Phil, because his personality in the early days was seen as 'soft' and going to some badly run team losing 50 games every year would likely do nothing to counter that.

Pippen was one of the best players of that era because he was an ideal sidekick for any offensive-minded All Star and his defensive skill was incredible.


scottie led 94 bulls to 2 seed on 22/8/5 with 3steals a game. and they absolutely were in contention, bad reffing eliminated them vs the knicks who then lost 4-3 vs the eventual champion rockets


A second round and out team is usually not called being in contention and the Knicks won game 7 by double figures. What if scenarios don't count. The Bulls were the 3 seed.

Then in the 94-95 season the Bulls led by Pippen pretty much stank it up before a slightly chubby Jordan re-joined them for the last quarter of the season and they went on a 13-4 winning streak, finishing the season 47-35. They were 23-25 at the All Star break. Hardly a contender by anyones book!


Looking at adv stats for 93/94 playoffs
Pippen
43rd ts%, 5th Per, 34th OWS with .5, 17th dws, 21st ws, 19th ws/48, 14&15 obpm&dbpm, 12th vorp

Kukoc
9th Per, 31st ows, 50th dws, 38th ws, 7th ws/48, 3rd obpm, 20th dbpm, 4th bpm, 21st vorp

Grant
10th Per, 8th ows, 31st dws, 15th ws, 6th ws/48, 10th obpm, 36th dbpm, 8th bpm, 13th vorp

Maybe the bulls had a good system, a great coach and were just a great team in 94.
Pennebaker wrote:Jordan lacks LeBron's mental toughness particularly because he couldn't handle criticism well.


freethedevil wrote:Jordan would statpad both his overall and "clutch" stats in blowout wins
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 26,625
And1: 11,868
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#127 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:08 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:Andrew Wiggins has all that athletic ability and tools too. How's it working out for him. You posit that Jordan held Pippen back? I don't think Pippen himself would support that argument. Jordan woke up early and worked out with Pippen and Harper everyday the second three peat. Pippen himself has never claimed he was held back by Jordan. P{open mostly is pouting over the migraine issues and generally folding under the pressure of the pistons and Knicks, and for being called out for purposely putting off his surgery to miss the season and screwing over the last championship team. No one in the world is going to argue that Jordan isn't a prick, well someone would but they can be quickly dismissed, but Pippen might hold the petulant title. All that being said he is still my favorite Bull of all time, but I listened to Charles Barkley when he said that players aren't role models.


I think wiggin's spacial awareness as well as just general IQ is a bit low for being a star. Could be something else, but he doesn't appear to understand where he needs to be nor can he process where he and others are on the floor. That's why Kerr to get use out of him had to make him play a role more often as the primary defender on the ball, it's easier to focus on the ball. Also helps that he's got dray screaming in his ear. Pippen while not the smartest guy himself imo, clearly had the BBIQ to run point and be just flat out deadly as a defender off ball.

I mean, while I get that MJ and the bull were among the first teams to implement weight training in season....I'm not sure that really moved the needle for Pippen's game like it did for MJ.

I'm sure Pippen wouldn't say MJ held him back. But none the less that seems like the most likely scenario if we're to assume any major changes. Pippen was a late bloomer who came into the league not fully developed offensively after growing so fast so late in life. Getting the opportunity to be a bigger focal point on offense could have only allowed him to improve those areas of his game. i'm sure MJ pushed him, but MJ pushed everyone...only Pippen turned out a first ballot hall of famer. Players find guys to mentor and develop them. I struggle to believe MJ was the best choice.

I fully don't believe this book is about this topic...I"m sure it's about what you mentioned. I'm just saying that if Pippen had played elsewhere I believe he'd be viewed as much more of a star player but less of a star resume/career if that makes sense.



Yeah Pippen clearly had more BBIQ than Wiggins did and way more motivation and toughness. The motivation and toughness though is at least partially a credit to Jordan. I was sat down by my older sister and told how impactful the drafting of Pippen was (I was 11) and I followed him religiously. He was soft... I don't think that he becomes a top 50 without MJ. I understand your argument though as I honestly used to argue it (actually a lot in 94 when I would tell people MJ is only worth 2 wins) Still its hard to argue the fact that MJ and the teams they faced (Piston's and Knicks) made Pippen a killer. If he goes to Sacto does he develop like this? I don't think so but that is speculation. Does he do well if he goes to the Lakers and has Magic and Worthy mentoring him? I think so. His early career failures though were hauntingly bad. Watching him just fold was tough. The honed and prime pippin though and may favorite dunk ever, on Ewing. That was a different Pippen though than I think he would have been not playing with MJ. My second favorite dunk is actually Starks dunking on the whole Bulls team. God I miss good rivalries like that.[/quote]

I honestly liked Pippen on the blazers the most of his career. That was when I realized how good he could have been if he'd been able to develop while still being athletic.

i'm not SURE of it but I think Pippen could have been an MVP peak guy. And I don't like to speculate like that. But he really really had the talent, it's just development and I can't imagine a worse teammate than MJ for pippen.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 26,625
And1: 11,868
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#128 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:11 am

GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


30 or 40th best player? And then didn't do much after. Dude....

Yeah bro I even watched that **** unfold, great player, just another guy in the big scheme of things


watched...............yeah good eyes kids. Best of luck to you in life.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 26,625
And1: 11,868
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#129 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:15 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
Or you can argue that, just by virtue of playing alongside arguably the most popular and famous athlete in history, Pippen got a ton of exposure and credit that he otherwise wouldn't. I mean, that was a long time ago now, but I honestly don't remember Pippen being shunted aside or ignored. Overshadowed to a degree, obviously; that's gonna happen to any non-superduper star playing alongside somebody like Jordan. And as great as he was, Scottie wasn't a superduper star.

But I remember him getting a ton of credit and praise for what he did on those teams. I definitely don't remember anybody dismissing him as some interchangeable sidekick. While I agree that Pippen was going to be a great player regardless -- Jordan might have influenced him, but he didn't make him -- but it's hard to argue that his profile would have been much greater than playing an integral role on maybe the most popular team in the history of U.S. pro sports.

So I think it's pretty simple, frankly. Scottie has shown to be thin-skinned and sensitive throughout his career, to the point that he took the completely unprecedented act of skipping the deciding possession in a playoff game because he wasn't getting the last shot, and this is just the latest example.


I think you make my point. Why wasn't Pippen a super duper star? The guy in his one prime year without Jordan was 3rd in MVP voting. 4th in DPOY voting. He was 3rd in BPM and 9th in WS/48 and 4th in PER (he missed 10 games thus using the rate metrics). He was without a doubt a top 5 player in the world that year and he was the best wing in basketball, period. Despite all that, people want to paint him as a guy you can't build a franchise around. Think he couldn't have been the best player in a title team. It's not true. He was that good. I don't think he'd have ever been the best player in the league and he'd have needed a team like the Sonics, deep and talented to do it. But he could have done it.


Because he wasn't consistently in that top, top tier. Advanced stats have nothing to do with your teammates, so whether he was lining up with Jordan or not doesn't make any difference there. And for the most part he was more of a top 10ish type guy rather than a consistent, perennial super elite, of which there are only a small handful in the NBA at any given time. Those type of players are usually have high 20s/low 30s PER, and Pippen was consistently in the low 20s. Glancing through the rest of his stuff, it all looks excellent but I bet it generally tracks with that. And that's fine. He was an awesome player, easily one of the best of his era and I'd have no problem slotting him into the Top 30 overall. I don't think any of that is particularly outrageous or insulting.

Whether you could have built a championship team around him, I don't know. It's easy to argue in favor of things that never happened. I can see him being in the right place at the right time and being the lead guy on an ensemble type championship team. But those teams are hard to build and extremely rare. So in the standard format with a couple of top-tier studs and a supporting cast of really good role players, no, I don't see him filling that lead role. I think the Bulls were an absolutely perfect spot for a player of his caliber. It's unfortunate he feels slighted over that.


Again....we have ONE year he didn't have MJ and he was a top 5 player. This team won 6 titles...I don't care how great you think MJ was, his team had to have been AWESOME and EPIC around him.

And that guy....who made them so awesome was Pippen. Lets not ignore Grant was a top 25 player either or Rodman at his peak was too.

MJ had some amazing guy around him.

And Pippen is the most underrated top 5 player ever. Grant is the most underrated top 20 guy ever.
User avatar
ImSlower
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,353
And1: 4,254
Joined: Jan 06, 2011
Location: STL-ish
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#130 » by ImSlower » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:22 am

I wonder if he'll address being the most reviled public figure or athlete among the Chicago (and national) restaurant industry. For those not in the know, "No Tippin' Pippin" has been treating restaurant/bar/club staff like trash his entire career. Back when I tended bar up there, I knew half a dozen people who'd directly served him, knowing he was going to be an **** and tip horrendously, and yet he still managed to be even worse than expectations.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of him on the court, and absolutely loathe him off. Jordan is an **** too, sure, but he at least takes exceptionally good care of his favorites in the industry.
Masai4PM
Sophomore
Posts: 217
And1: 571
Joined: Aug 10, 2020
       

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#131 » by Masai4PM » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:24 am

Sounds like Robin is trying to get some shine, but we all know Batman was the show
User avatar
Pablo Escobar
Head Coach
Posts: 6,370
And1: 3,166
Joined: May 13, 2009
Location: Medellín

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#132 » by Pablo Escobar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:29 am

This dude is so salty loool bro just be happy that you played with the Goat.
Plata o Plomo?
Slava
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 58,945
And1: 30,974
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Location: København
     

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#133 » by Slava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:26 am

The reason why Pippen doesn't get the adoration of Jordan, apart from not being in the same tier as a basketball player is that he is a very poor decision maker in regular life and quite often the last to realize he's been scammed. He was bilked out of millions by his financial advisors, his ex-wife took him for a ride and now some dude is using him to market and sell a book that he probably has little control over. Compare that to Jordan, the Jordan brand and how well produced and marketed The last dance ended up being and you notice that Pippen is just bad at marketing himself.
:king: + :angry: = :wizard:
DCasey91
Veteran
Posts: 2,736
And1: 1,379
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#134 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:38 am

Look at everyone’s second option in the 90’s overall. Pippen was far superior no question relative to its era once adding on the astounding continuity not to mention always have a great 3rd in Grant, Rodman then Kukoc and support cast to go along.

Pippen is a great 2 always will be.

The 90’s was a huge finesse financially speaking. A player got paid $100+ Mill plus relative to today and another got paid peanuts to what he was worth but because of loopholes that actually happened it’s all there.
svart
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,852
And1: 1,599
Joined: Jul 02, 2014
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#135 » by svart » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:42 am

it's funny how many people here are getting defensive and start attacking him even before reading his POV.

i personally think he is right about The Last Dance being an ode to MJ.

But i guess fanboys will be boys, as usual.
DCasey91
Veteran
Posts: 2,736
And1: 1,379
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#136 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:46 am

svart wrote:it's funny how many people here are getting defensive and start attacking him even before reading his POV.

i personally think he is right about The Last Dance being an ode to MJ.

But i guess fanboys will be boys, as usual.


It is I watched it again man the false narratives, the overlooked/glossed over things for pure entertainment and just down right disrespectful stuff towards certain people (RIP Krause they did him real real dirty).

Is it entertaining? Yes. Is it a great documentary, heck no.
DCasey91
Veteran
Posts: 2,736
And1: 1,379
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#137 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:55 am

Difference between 88,89,90 and 91? Pippen and Grant hit their primes for the next three years and beyond.

I wonder how MJ would do with Big Z and the Cavs whole organization lol

No bias but whatever falsehoods, glorification LBJ has, MJ is in the exact same boat.

Phil was the leader, MJ by far the best player in the NBA, Tex was the philosopher, and Krause was the brains of the whole thing.
trueballer7
Pro Prospect
Posts: 864
And1: 755
Joined: Mar 26, 2019
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#138 » by trueballer7 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:48 am

DCasey91 wrote:Look at everyone’s second option in the 90’s overall. Pippen was far superior no question relative to its era once adding on the astounding continuity not to mention always have a great 3rd in Grant, Rodman then Kukoc and support cast to go along.

Pippen is a great 2 always will be.

The 90’s was a huge finesse financially speaking. A player got paid $100+ Mill plus relative to today and another got paid peanuts to what he was worth but because of loopholes that actually happened it’s all there.

No, Pippen was not far superior to John Stockton, Gary Payton, Penny Hardaway, Joe Dumars, Tim Hardaway, Chris Webber etc in fact I have trouble accepting that he was even barely superior to others like Derrick Coleman, Larry Johnson, young Garnett, Ray Allen, old David Robinson etc.
DCasey91
Veteran
Posts: 2,736
And1: 1,379
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#139 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:11 pm

trueballer7 wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:Look at everyone’s second option in the 90’s overall. Pippen was far superior no question relative to its era once adding on the astounding continuity not to mention always have a great 3rd in Grant, Rodman then Kukoc and support cast to go along.

Pippen is a great 2 always will be.

The 90’s was a huge finesse financially speaking. A player got paid $100+ Mill plus relative to today and another got paid peanuts to what he was worth but because of loopholes that actually happened it’s all there.

No, Pippen was not far superior to John Stockton, Gary Payton, Penny Hardaway, Joe Dumars, Tim Hardaway, Chris Webber etc in fact I have trouble accepting that he was even barely superior to others like Derrick Coleman, Larry Johnson, young Garnett, Ray Allen, old David Robinson etc.



- Webber played three playoffs in the 90’s and they didn’t make it out the first round
- Penny had no where near the continuity (4 runs)
- Stockton is close though Jazz weren’t as deep for the most the decade (late 80’s onwards)
- Pippen is better then Tim Hardaway cmon
- Gary Payton is comparable but once again Pippens production is top tier for a 2nd option.

People underrate if anything all the production of Pippen during that decade. The is the best defensive wing during that era had 13 count them 13 20+ PPG series’s not to mention racking up all the assists, rebounds, blocks, steals and at times was guarding the best offensive player.

Pippen is like a bigger, less shooting less efficient more playmaking version of Spurs DPOY Leonard... but for a decade.
User avatar
Baz
Pro Prospect
Posts: 825
And1: 1,044
Joined: Mar 18, 2015
       

Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#140 » by Baz » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:23 pm

Great player, awful attitude. He's always been so envious of Michael.

Return to The General Board