Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#61 » by Tacoma » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:07 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with


I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Disaagree with the disagree.

Without MJ, not only does he not win 6, he doesn't win one as the best player on his team. His best contribution is on defense but even there, MJ was better than him. On offense, MJ attracted all the attention being double and tripled team leaving Pippen Unguarded (as his book says) and he still only managed 16ppg for his career. The year he left for Houston in 1998 out of MJ's shadow, he was only 3rd option to Barkley and Olajuwon. Yeah, he was older, but so were Barkley and Olajuwon.

Pippen was a clear Robin to MJ's Batman, in all respects. MJ would still win if he were paired with prime Gary Paton or Kevin Garnett. Pippen wins no rings without MJ.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#62 » by Tacoma » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:08 pm

Lakers LeBron wrote:
magicman1978 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Or he could have been disrespected because of his poor offensive showing in the playoffs. There's a reason those poor showings don't get brought up much when people talk about him.


But Pippen's poor offensive showings are brought up endlessly while Jordan's bad games are completely ignored. For example, Last Dance did not mention the time Jordan shot 3-18 against the Knicks while the Bulls were down 0-2 in the series in 93 while Pippen played the game of his life to save the Bulls season. It just said that the Bulls went to Chicago and Jordan led them to victory.

The reason Jordan's poor showings are not brought up is because Jordan is is treated as this flawless legendary figure and people just don't believe that he often had bad games and relied heavily on his teammates during the title runs.


Not true and even MJ admits it himself:

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#63 » by Theo Ratliff » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:17 pm

FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with

I don't think the way he feels is aimed at Jordan personally. I think it's aimed more towards the media but I've never heard anyone really say anything bad about Scottie. Jordan has always given him credit and everyone acknowledges what he meant to the Bulls dynasty. I think he's just grown tired of hearing about Jordan over the years.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#64 » by JasonStern » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:24 pm

Favorite excript:

Scottie Pippen wrote:So it's game 7 in the Western Conference Finals and we're up 16 in the 4th. Then Bonzi Wells goes "I think I can out-Kobe Kobe." And I'm like, "Just hold the damn ball. They will run out of time."

Then Stoudamire jacks up a couple of airballs. "Allen Iverson said shooters gotta shoot." You're not Allen Iverson and even if you were, neither of you are shooters. Stop!

And Sheed is like, "If we make the finals, I'll miss the Stanley Cup." Bruh! Do you even watch hockey?

So yeah, I'm a little bitter and feel like I should have got that seventh ring back in 2000.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#65 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:46 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:A lot of people will call this whining or whatever but I don't really blame Pippen for feeling the way that he felt. No other sports figure in the US at least has had a fanatical, cult-like fanbase to the level of Michael Jordan. Pippen has had to deal with being overlooked, undervalued, and blamed for shortcomings more than any other star player has.

It's similar to what Lebron's teammates have had to deal with when they're given no credit for winning and all the blame for losses... But Pippen had to deal with that for his entire career and not just a couple of seasons.



To be honest, I was fervent Pippen supporter and was meh on MJ growing up. It was an odd stance that i took growing up in Chicago. So I would dog MJ and point out his flaws (oddly though I had personal experiences with him and he was a great guy). I fully supported Pippen but damn Pip you just constantly shoot yourself in the foot. He was always jealous that MJ got the press but I mean Mike was better. MJ doesn't have 6 rings without Pippen there is no doubt about that, no one will dispute that but Pippen was a #2, it wasn't a 1A and 1B thing. Why is it shocking that the most influential athlete from your sport of all time is getting press?

As for recent Pippen, after Jerry Reinsdorf (albeit he is an evil man) bailed him out of financial issues 2 times (maybe 3) you still and mouth him. While working as an ambassador for the Bulls you go on national TV and dog them... Then try to spin it that they are wrong in the situation. I mean Jerry is an easy target and anyone else bashing him I am behind but with Pip... c'mon man he employed you 2 times he didn't have to... he took care of you even after you drug his name through the mud and influenced the NBA to hate the man (which is deserved just not from Pippen)

This book should be fun though. I 100% get it though MJ is a prick everyone knows it, Pippen and Grant hated how they were portrayed, but no one is really going to care. I'm guessing this is a fund raiser because Larsa needs alimony and or Pippen had another "bad" investment. Pip I will always love you but ungrateful definitely applies.


He's like your Oakley.


No Oakley is my Oakley. I cried like MJ when they traded the Oak Tree for Cartwright! I was young and Oakley was my guy at that point.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#66 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:50 pm

Theo Ratliff wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with

I don't think the way he feels is aimed at Jordan personally. I think it's aimed more towards the media but I've never heard anyone really say anything bad about Scottie. Jordan has always given him credit and everyone acknowledges what he meant to the Bulls dynasty. I think he's just grown tired of hearing about Jordan over the years.



Not true. Jordan only paid Scottie back handed compliments and he was sore. There was the time when Jordan was listing all the things he does better than Scottie but then was like well you dunk with your left hand better as if it was a boon but the whole conversation was overall emasculating. Pippen was loved for sure no doubt but he was always in the shadow. Even when MJ retired it was a forgone conclusion that Pippen couldn’t carry the team… even though he did and only had 2 less wins on the season from the year before and was a questionable call from beating the Knicks and going to the ECF.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#67 » by Capn'O » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:52 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

To be honest, I was fervent Pippen supporter and was meh on MJ growing up. It was an odd stance that i took growing up in Chicago. So I would dog MJ and point out his flaws (oddly though I had personal experiences with him and he was a great guy). I fully supported Pippen but damn Pip you just constantly shoot yourself in the foot. He was always jealous that MJ got the press but I mean Mike was better. MJ doesn't have 6 rings without Pippen there is no doubt about that, no one will dispute that but Pippen was a #2, it wasn't a 1A and 1B thing. Why is it shocking that the most influential athlete from your sport of all time is getting press?

As for recent Pippen, after Jerry Reinsdorf (albeit he is an evil man) bailed him out of financial issues 2 times (maybe 3) you still and mouth him. While working as an ambassador for the Bulls you go on national TV and dog them... Then try to spin it that they are wrong in the situation. I mean Jerry is an easy target and anyone else bashing him I am behind but with Pip... c'mon man he employed you 2 times he didn't have to... he took care of you even after you drug his name through the mud and influenced the NBA to hate the man (which is deserved just not from Pippen)

This book should be fun though. I 100% get it though MJ is a prick everyone knows it, Pippen and Grant hated how they were portrayed, but no one is really going to care. I'm guessing this is a fund raiser because Larsa needs alimony and or Pippen had another "bad" investment. Pip I will always love you but ungrateful definitely applies.


He's like your Oakley.


No Oakley is my Oakley. I cried like MJ when they traded the Oak Tree for Cartwright! I was young and Oakley was my guy at that point.


Fair enough. My comments were more "black sheep of the org" than personal.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#68 » by camby23 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:55 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:Most overrated, bitter and ungrateful player in NBA history.


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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#69 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:57 pm

Tacoma wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with


I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Disaagree with the disagree.

Without MJ, not only does he not win 6, he doesn't win one as the best player on his team. His best contribution is on defense but even there, MJ was better than him. On offense, MJ attracted all the attention being double and tripled team leaving Pippen Unguarded (as his book says) and he still only managed 16ppg for his career. The year he left for Houston in 1998 out of MJ's shadow, he was only 3rd option to Barkley and Olajuwon. Yeah, he was older, but so were Barkley and Olajuwon.

Pippen was a clear Robin to MJ's Batman, in all respects. MJ would still win if he were paired with prime Gary Paton or Kevin Garnett. Pippen wins no rings without MJ.


Come on man...MJ wasn't a better defender. Pippen was a bad game 7 from winning one post career altering back injuries on the blazers.

And MJ gets KG? A top 10 player? LFMAO....he'd better win with that guy.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#70 » by wutevahung » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:01 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
wutevahung wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
I kind of agree with this. Scottie was fantastic and he deserves his props for his contributions to those teams, but Jordan was clearly the engine making them go. Being called a “sidekick” to one of the 3 or 4 most dominant basketball players to ever play is not exactly an insult.


I think the difference between like Wade sidekick to LeBron, or Russ sidekick for KD, is that Pippen wasn't treated with the respect of an all NBA team player, and most importantly, PAID like one. There is no doubt that majority of his gripe is coming from being underpaid. He made a bad decision to sign that contract, but the world was different back then.

Also, ya, "Last Dance" was definitely created for casual fans who didn't know much about the Bulls. I don't think I learned anything new. It was interesting, but not that informative, and was definitely biased toward Mike. There were multiple occasions that they omitted Michael's shortcoming for better story telling, and downplayed his teammates's accomplishment and impacts.


I agree that the last dance was basically a MJ fluff piece that did nothing for me.

As far as him not getting the respect of an All NBA player, I have to ask, who didn’t respect Scottie’s game? When you talk about greatest duos in NBA history, he and Jordan always come up as being in the conversation (as they should).

The pay thing is another story, and I can understand him having bitter feelings over that. I should point out though, he WAS given a cushy job later on with the Bulls where they paid him a lot of money for him not really doing anything.


I think the disrespect thing is more about his problem with management, especially Krause, and of course, was rooted in his contract issue. JJ Redick has said multiple times in his podcast, players are aware of how much others get paid, and they are ultra competitive about that. I assume it was true in Pippen's era, and probably worse, since players didn't get paid as much, and most of them were were from a tougher childhood than today's players.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#71 » by Dzon Dilindzer » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:23 pm

toni kukoc also said "the last dance" isnt completely true, but rather 70% it is

when his former teammates say the say thing, then its probably true
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#72 » by Theo Ratliff » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:27 pm

camby23 wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Most overrated, bitter and ungrateful player in NBA history.


Image


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What is this suppose to prove? Jordan had over 1500 more points and they are neck and neck with every other stat lol
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#73 » by donnieme » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:37 pm

Next time people are riding stars like Lebron and Luka for being the front an center they should look at this and realise all greats inevitably have teammates feeling discontent and entitled to more credit.

Pippen is more historically significant than more talented all time greats for being (an important) part of the Jordan machine. His book will sell because people want to hear about Jordan, he's a top 40 player because of his accomplishments he likely wouldn't have achieved elsewhere. The last dance aside he gets his dues
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#74 » by alebaba » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:48 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Tacoma wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Disaagree with the disagree.

Without MJ, not only does he not win 6, he doesn't win one as the best player on his team. His best contribution is on defense but even there, MJ was better than him. On offense, MJ attracted all the attention being double and tripled team leaving Pippen Unguarded (as his book says) and he still only managed 16ppg for his career. The year he left for Houston in 1998 out of MJ's shadow, he was only 3rd option to Barkley and Olajuwon. Yeah, he was older, but so were Barkley and Olajuwon.

Pippen was a clear Robin to MJ's Batman, in all respects. MJ would still win if he were paired with prime Gary Paton or Kevin Garnett. Pippen wins no rings without MJ.


Come on man...MJ wasn't a better defender. Pippen was a bad game 7 from winning one post career altering back injuries on the blazers.

And MJ gets KG? A top 10 player? LFMAO....he'd better win with that guy.


Jordan is easily the better perimeter defender, there's a reason why Phil always asked Jordan to guard opposing best wing, when they need a stop.

When you need a stop, I'm going with Jordan 100%.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#75 » by AussieCeltic » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:49 pm

Theo Ratliff wrote:
camby23 wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Most overrated, bitter and ungrateful player in NBA history.


Image


Image

What is this suppose to prove? Jordan had over 1500 more points and they are neck and neck with every other stat lol


More cherry picked stats to try make Lebron look better
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#76 » by NYPiston » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:58 pm

It's ridiculous that anybody, especially people who knew Jordan really well, expected "The Last Dance" which had Jordan's fingerprints all over it to be anything but a Jordan glory piece.

Pippen is delusional if he thinks he was anything but a sidekick on those teams. He was a great player and an integral part of those Championship teams but everybody knows who drove that engine. There's nothing wrong with being "Robin" to the greatest player that ever played. Jordan has a universally known giant sized ego but as more time passes, Pippen's ego is giving Jordan's ego a run for its money.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#77 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:01 pm

alebaba wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Tacoma wrote:
Disaagree with the disagree.

Without MJ, not only does he not win 6, he doesn't win one as the best player on his team. His best contribution is on defense but even there, MJ was better than him. On offense, MJ attracted all the attention being double and tripled team leaving Pippen Unguarded (as his book says) and he still only managed 16ppg for his career. The year he left for Houston in 1998 out of MJ's shadow, he was only 3rd option to Barkley and Olajuwon. Yeah, he was older, but so were Barkley and Olajuwon.

Pippen was a clear Robin to MJ's Batman, in all respects. MJ would still win if he were paired with prime Gary Paton or Kevin Garnett. Pippen wins no rings without MJ.


Come on man...MJ wasn't a better defender. Pippen was a bad game 7 from winning one post career altering back injuries on the blazers.

And MJ gets KG? A top 10 player? LFMAO....he'd better win with that guy.


Jordan is easily the better perimeter defender, there's a reason why Phil always asked Jordan to guard opposing best wing, when they need a stop.

When you need a stop, I'm going with Jordan 100%.


If you think that's how you pick a better defender, you fundamentally don't understand basketball. You ALWAYS want your best defenders off ball.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#78 » by DoctorX » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:10 pm

G35 wrote:This is why it is so difficult to find the perfect #2 because that guy has to have the following:
- Lead the team when the #1 is injured/off the court (see 1994)
- subjugate your statistical goals for the #1 guy/benefit of the team
- Lower your ego for whatever the #1 guy wants to do on the court

This is why Scottie got so mad in that playoff game vs the Knicks when Phil drew up that last shot for Kukoc, he was thinking, "Finally I get to have the last shot and be the man." That may sound petty and it is, but it is a natural human desire and it was taken away from him.

This is the same thing Kobe went through with Shaq and I'm sure a few teammates of Lebron.....


Agreed I was always amazed how there was no friction between Manu/Parker with Duncan since they were always the sidekicks during Duncan's prime. I remember a few years ago hearing an interview with Manu in which he was asked how he felt about not getting the Finals MVP in '05 and his response was paraphrasing "I thought had a great chance at it but it could have gone either way. I was happy for Tim because he really deserved it." I think Duncan being a great teammate along with hating the spotlight made it easier for those two to accept being the second option.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#79 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:17 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:slightly better prime iguodala. Thats a really good basketball player. Ive never found someone who thinks any less of him.

Slightly better? Nah. Remember the season Michael took off, Pippen led the Bulls in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, and blocks. I remember that season really well, because it was the first I had cable tv, and WGN had all the Bulls games, so I saw at least half of them - even though I wasn't a Bulls fan. He was amazing - better than the impressive stats - was the best defensive wing I ever saw, their primary ball-handler, the best finisher in the game at that time, finished 2nd to Ewing in MVP but probably should have gotten it. My negative on him - he did have some years where he had a bad back and was not the player he was in his best years - in those years, it was fair to call him MJ's sidekick.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#80 » by twyzted » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:25 pm

AussieCeltic wrote:
Theo Ratliff wrote:
camby23 wrote:
Image


Image

What is this suppose to prove? Jordan had over 1500 more points and they are neck and neck with every other stat lol


More cherry picked stats to try make Lebron look better


ok that blatantly false cherry picked def share bs pic
92/93 Jordan and pippen are both 1.1dws its given as a tie...
in 2011 Wade and Lbj are tied in dbpm at 1.9 given to Lebron... Centers are excluded joel anthony a center is at 1.9. and the cherry on the ice is that Chalmers was at 2.4 dpm.
So yeah this is a biased and cherry picked as it can be... Jordan only was always by far better in offense adv stats.
Like in 92/93
Jordan has a usg% of 38 with OWS of 3.3 and OBPM of 9.7
Pippen has usg% of 26 with OWS of 0,3 and OBPM of 1.1
That is a alot higher then those .1-3 pippen had over Jordan in defensive adv. stats.

Wade was by adv. Stats far better in 2011 playoff (LeCHOKES Prime)

THAT NEVER HAPPENED TO JORDAN

Also most of these poster who post Lebron does everything and has no help Leads his team in everything...
Also same posters Luka is so selfish that he needs to get all the shots, rebounds and assists nothing hypocritical about that :banghead:
Pennebaker wrote:Jordan lacks LeBron's mental toughness particularly because he couldn't handle criticism well.


freethedevil wrote:Jordan would statpad both his overall and "clutch" stats in blowout wins

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