Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat?

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How hot is his seat

Not at all
122
58%
Lukewarm
47
22%
Starting to heat up
28
13%
Hot
8
4%
Budenholzer
4
2%
 
Total votes: 209

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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#61 » by Ugalde » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:07 pm

they need a second star before they can blame him. every real team has a second guy. i also think teams really benefit when management stays really strong behind their coach.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#62 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:13 pm

KhalilS wrote:and giving Dampier that contract back in the day, etc...


I have this a hit I think. Or at least not a miss. For all of Damp's David LeFleur hands he was the starting center for some really high level Mavs teams and gave them pretty much exactly what they paid for. Was he overpaid? Sure, but you always overpay in FA and of course Donnie was one of the innovators of the big ungtd last year that let them turn him and a bad contract into Tyson Chandler.

Parsons and Barnes were bigger misses imo though the fact that he had to give up a PO for Parsons turned out to be a blessing in disguise as Dallas was able to move on quickly.

And while he has those huge draft hits, he mostly whiffed when forced to pick. But where he was consistently pretty good was in the so-called 2nd draft where he would find Brandon Bass or OJ Mayo or Brandon Wright or Aminu and steal a year or two out of them before moving on. And of course Barea and Finney-Smith terrific undrafted gems.

Bottom line is turning over your FO or your head coach every 3 years because you didn't make a conference finals can be very counterproductive. And either way I think Finley is probably going to take over for Donnie in the next few years with him likely taking a more business role in the organization before retiring. So those who want change for change's sake will get it.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#63 » by Bulliever2020 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:15 pm

Some of these ungrateful Mavs fans hating on Luka and Carlisle really have no idea how good they have it. Really making me start to dislike their team's fans. Want to switch places with the Bulls for starters?? Yeah, I didn't think so.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#64 » by KhalilS » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:24 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
KhalilS wrote:and giving Dampier that contract back in the day, etc...


I have this a hit I think. Or at least not a miss. For all of Damp's David LeFleur hands he was the starting center for some really high level Mavs teams and gave them pretty much exactly what they paid for. Was he overpaid? Sure, but you always overpay in FA and of course Donnie was one of the innovators of the big ungtd last year that let them turn him and a bad contract into Tyson Chandler.

Parsons and Barnes were bigger misses imo though the fact that he had to give up a PO for Parsons turned out to be a blessing in disguise as Dallas was able to move on quickly.

And while he has those huge draft hits, he mostly whiffed when forced to pick. But where he was consistently pretty good was in the so-called 2nd draft where he would find Brandon Bass or OJ Mayo or Brandon Wright or Aminu and steal a year or two out of them before moving on. And of course Barea and Finney-Smith terrific undrafted gems.

Bottom line is turning over your FO or your head coach every 3 years because you didn't make a conference finals can be very counterproductive. And either way I think Finley is probably going to take over for Donnie in the next few years with him likely taking a more business role in the organization before retiring. So those who want change for change's sake will get it.


I think he was wildly overpaid, and signed right when the league started to move away from the traditional big, the Mavs were high level because of the rest of the roster, not him, but yeah, that's how Cuban liked to operate, collect contracts and hunt for opportunities, never fear to overpay for talent.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#65 » by matt6715 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
matt6715 wrote:Donnie Nelson needs to go before Carlisle. This is a GM/roster issue, not a coaching issue


Seriously, what was he thinking in 2018 trading the rights the #5 pick for some Euro?


Sooo does he get a free pass until Luka eventually demands a trade or leaves for the Lakers?

Here's a little view of his GMing genius since the KP trade:

-Trades the Memphis Grizzlies two second round picks for the right to sign Delon Wright to a MLE contract in 2019 (after waiting out DANNY GREEN of all players); Donnie praises his toughness, on ball defense, secondary playmaking, etc.
-Delon Wright bombs out of Dallas; Mavs give up another second round pick to trade him for James Johnson after losing to the clippers in the bubble
-Donnie says Johnson is exactly what the Mavs need - Kawhi defense, toughness, etc.
-Trades Seth Curry for Josh Richardson (toughness, secondary playmaking, on-ball defense etc)
-Splits the midlevel exception on Trey Burke (who I believe would be out of the NBA without the Mavs) and Willie Cauley-Stein; refuses to pay a guy like Crowder the full MLE for anything more than a year because they want to keep cap space for the Giannis dream
-Completely botches the 2020 draft; drafts Josh Green with Saddiq Bey sitting there on the board, not to mention Desmond Bane who many Mavs fans felt would be an NBA-ready fit
-Dumps James Johnson plus ANOTHER second round pick to the Pelicans for injured JJ Redick because "Mavs need shooting" (Donnie gave away all the shooting and refused to draft shooting)
-Mavs lose to Clippers; nobody can defend Kawhi or hit a 3 outside of Luka

Masterclass in GMing right there, am I right?
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#66 » by Golden Knight » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:26 pm

MrGoat wrote:Since 2011 the Mavs are now 0-6 in first round series, most recently gagging away a 2-0 lead by blowing three games at home. You don't seem to hear much talk about a hot seat for Rick Carlisle so I ask the question

Mavs fan?

2012 - Cuban dismantled the championship team. No.7 seed, lost 4-0 to the no.2 seed Thunder who made the Finals.

2014 - No.8 seed. Won 3 games vs eventual Champs and no.1 seed Spurs. (OKC and Miami won a combined 3 games vs SAS)

2015 - No. 7 seed. Dirk was almost 37. Monta was the leading scorer. Lost 4-1 to the no.2 seed Rockets.

2016 - No. 6 seed. Dirk's nearly 38 years old and STILL the team's best player. Lost 4-1 to the no.3 seed and title contenders Thunder.

2020 - No. 7 seed. Lost to no.2 seed and one of the title favorites Clippers in 6 games.

2021 - No. 5 seed. Took the Clippers to 7 games.

Where exactly are the Mavs favored to win there? A lot of coaches would have been swept in 2-4 of those series.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#67 » by cccmonteiro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:19 pm

Celtics' green hot.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#68 » by MrGoat » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:54 pm

Golden Knight wrote:
MrGoat wrote:Since 2011 the Mavs are now 0-6 in first round series, most recently gagging away a 2-0 lead by blowing three games at home. You don't seem to hear much talk about a hot seat for Rick Carlisle so I ask the question

Mavs fan?

2012 - Cuban dismantled the championship team. No.7 seed, lost 4-0 to the no.2 seed Thunder who made the Finals.

2014 - No.8 seed. Won 3 games vs eventual Champs and no.1 seed Spurs. (OKC and Miami won a combined 3 games vs SAS)

2015 - No. 7 seed. Dirk was almost 37. Monta was the leading scorer. Lost 4-1 to the no.2 seed Rockets.

2016 - No. 6 seed. Dirk's nearly 38 years old and STILL the team's best player. Lost 4-1 to the no.3 seed and title contenders Thunder.

2020 - No. 7 seed. Lost to no.2 seed and one of the title favorites Clippers in 6 games.

2021 - No. 5 seed. Took the Clippers to 7 games.

Where exactly are the Mavs favored to win there? A lot of coaches would have been swept in 2-4 of those series.


Definite Mavs fan. I asked the question because I was frequenting a mavs fan board http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40450 where most of the members are huge RC defenders and will ignore even some of his faults. I was shocked when a poll there was 50/50 on whether Rick should be fired so I wanted to ask the question here.

If you want to know where I stand on the question I tend to think the answer is somewhere around the second and third option. But as to whether he's actually on the hot seat or not is really up to Luka I think. I was a staunch RC defender until the Harrison Barnes years, those teams weren't supposed to be that bad and when it was obvious tanking was needed they didn't even do a good job of that, we were very lucky Doncic slid to the Hawks and were willing to trade him to us. RC will maximize what roster he has but he isn't the greatest developmental coach and has definitely ruined some careers of some players drafted here. He has a fetish for undersized combo guards which is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing. They really need something different in the defensive coaching, you would have thought RC was a good defensive coach from his Indiana years but if you've watched this team over the past decade... yeah
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#69 » by zeebneeb » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:07 pm

bisme37 wrote:You can't just bag on a coach for being "0-6 in the first round since 2011" without acknowledging his team wasn't favored to win those first round series and his good coaching was a big part of making the playoffs in the first place.
Why would you bring logic into the discussion?

Cmon man.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#70 » by Golden Knight » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:17 pm

MrGoat wrote:
Golden Knight wrote:
MrGoat wrote:Since 2011 the Mavs are now 0-6 in first round series, most recently gagging away a 2-0 lead by blowing three games at home. You don't seem to hear much talk about a hot seat for Rick Carlisle so I ask the question

Mavs fan?

2012 - Cuban dismantled the championship team. No.7 seed, lost 4-0 to the no.2 seed Thunder who made the Finals.

2014 - No.8 seed. Won 3 games vs eventual Champs and no.1 seed Spurs. (OKC and Miami won a combined 3 games vs SAS)

2015 - No. 7 seed. Dirk was almost 37. Monta was the leading scorer. Lost 4-1 to the no.2 seed Rockets.

2016 - No. 6 seed. Dirk's nearly 38 years old and STILL the team's best player. Lost 4-1 to the no.3 seed and title contenders Thunder.

2020 - No. 7 seed. Lost to no.2 seed and one of the title favorites Clippers in 6 games.

2021 - No. 5 seed. Took the Clippers to 7 games.

Where exactly are the Mavs favored to win there? A lot of coaches would have been swept in 2-4 of those series.


Definite Mavs fan. I asked the question because I was frequenting a mavs fan board http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40450 where most of the members are huge RC defenders and will ignore even some of his faults. I was shocked when a poll there was 50/50 on whether Rick should be fired so I wanted to ask the question here.

If you want to know where I stand on the question I tend to think the answer is somewhere around the second and third option. But as to whether he's actually on the hot seat or not is really up to Luka I think. I was a staunch RC defender until the Harrison Barnes years, those teams weren't supposed to be that bad and when it was obvious tanking was needed they didn't even do a good job of that, we were very lucky Doncic slid to the Hawks and were willing to trade him to us. RC will maximize what roster he has but he isn't the greatest developmental coach and has definitely ruined some careers of some players drafted here. He has a fetish for undersized combo guards which is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing. They really need something different in the defensive coaching, you would have thought RC was a good defensive coach from his Indiana years but if you've watched this team over the past decade... yeah

Your original post should have listed his shortcomings and reasons why he should be in the hot seat.

0-6 in first rounds is definitely not it.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#71 » by John Murdoch » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:24 pm

Who currently is a better pound for pound coach than him ? Joke thread
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#72 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:50 pm

matt6715 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
matt6715 wrote:Donnie Nelson needs to go before Carlisle. This is a GM/roster issue, not a coaching issue


Seriously, what was he thinking in 2018 trading the rights the #5 pick for some Euro?


Sooo does he get a free pass until Luka eventually demands a trade or leaves for the Lakers?

Here's a little view of his GMing genius since the KP trade:

-Trades the Memphis Grizzlies two second round picks for the right to sign Delon Wright to a MLE contract in 2019 (after waiting out DANNY GREEN of all players); Donnie praises his toughness, on ball defense, secondary playmaking, etc.
-Delon Wright bombs out of Dallas; Mavs give up another second round pick to trade him for James Johnson after losing to the clippers in the bubble
-Donnie says Johnson is exactly what the Mavs need - Kawhi defense, toughness, etc.
-Trades Seth Curry for Josh Richardson (toughness, secondary playmaking, on-ball defense etc)
-Splits the midlevel exception on Trey Burke (who I believe would be out of the NBA without the Mavs) and Willie Cauley-Stein; refuses to pay a guy like Crowder the full MLE for anything more than a year because they want to keep cap space for the Giannis dream
-Completely botches the 2020 draft; drafts Josh Green with Saddiq Bey sitting there on the board, not to mention Desmond Bane who many Mavs fans felt would be an NBA-ready fit
-Dumps James Johnson plus ANOTHER second round pick to the Pelicans for injured JJ Redick because "Mavs need shooting" (Donnie gave away all the shooting and refused to draft shooting)
-Mavs lose to Clippers; nobody can defend Kawhi or hit a 3 outside of Luka

Masterclass in GMing right there, am I right?


I think it's important when we talk about firing people to really think through what the purpose of firing them is. You're not doing it to punish them because they made bets that didn't work out, you're doing it because you think you can get someone else who going forward will be so much better that it's worth the turmoil that the organizational change will cause.

First question to ask I think:

Who do you think has a better track record for recognizing talent, building up, building around, and developing relationships with non-traditional stars?

If someone really springs to your mind here, go ahead and champion them.

If you can't think of anyone, well, then you probably shouldn't fire Nelson because he's literally the first guy who comes to mind for me.

I also think it's important to take a step back and compare notes with fans of other franchises. The reality is that none of these decision makers look good when you compile their list of "things they could have done that they didn't do", and so the existence of these things is not what makes a guy bad at his job.

On the other hand, I'm one of the many folks on here who've made it something of a macabre sport to look at the owners/GMs who are really, really incompetent, so I'm certainly not someone who is just positive about every GM. As a Mav fan I think you've been pretty dang fortunate the last couple decades, after experiencing a brutal decade in the '90s.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#73 » by Swish1906 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:57 pm

KhalilS wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
KhalilS wrote:and giving Dampier that contract back in the day, etc...


I have this a hit I think. Or at least not a miss. For all of Damp's David LeFleur hands he was the starting center for some really high level Mavs teams and gave them pretty much exactly what they paid for. Was he overpaid? Sure, but you always overpay in FA and of course Donnie was one of the innovators of the big ungtd last year that let them turn him and a bad contract into Tyson Chandler.

Parsons and Barnes were bigger misses imo though the fact that he had to give up a PO for Parsons turned out to be a blessing in disguise as Dallas was able to move on quickly.

And while he has those huge draft hits, he mostly whiffed when forced to pick. But where he was consistently pretty good was in the so-called 2nd draft where he would find Brandon Bass or OJ Mayo or Brandon Wright or Aminu and steal a year or two out of them before moving on. And of course Barea and Finney-Smith terrific undrafted gems.

Bottom line is turning over your FO or your head coach every 3 years because you didn't make a conference finals can be very counterproductive. And either way I think Finley is probably going to take over for Donnie in the next few years with him likely taking a more business role in the organization before retiring. So those who want change for change's sake will get it.


I think he was wildly overpaid, and signed right when the league started to move away from the traditional big, the Mavs were high level because of the rest of the roster, not him, but yeah, that's how Cuban liked to operate, collect contracts and hunt for opportunities, never fear to overpay for talent.
.


No they signed him when the Mavs was still facing prime Duncan and prime Shaq in the West. It was also a 6/60m contract since the final year was non guaranteed. 10m a year was normal for every above average center. And the 7th year was a brilliant move, the Mavs basically created nonguaranteed contract trade chips.

Damp gets too much hate. Yes he had terrible hands but he was setting great screens and rebounded solid
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#74 » by fast+forward » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:01 am

That championship made him a coach for life in Dallas. The people pushing this narrative are reading the situation completely wrong or don't know Cuban at all. He's probably the most loyal owner next to the Buss's as far as their front office/coaching staff is concerned.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#75 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:46 am

Who is the second best player on the Mavs? DFS? Maxi? KP?

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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#76 » by cjmcallist » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:23 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
KhalilS wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Seriously, what was he thinking in 2018 trading the rights the #5 pick for some Euro?


Your sarcasm actually hit the nail on the head, he pulls great rabbits out of his hat (Dirk & Luka are the obvious, but trading for Chandler, Marion and Kidd was brilliant, picking undrafted DFS, getting THJ, who proved to be a very useful player, as a supposed poison pill in the KP trade, the the KP trade itself was brilliant, Josh Howard was a great find), OTOH, we tend to remember failures and take successes as a given, like the KP max contract before setting a foot on the court, signing Barnes, drafting Green when the world and his mother were screaming Siddiq Bey, and giving Dampier that contract back in the day, etc...


Oh he's had his misses, I'm just tripping on the idea Nelson would be on the hot seat specifically for not yet building a championship team for a player he traded up to draft 3 years ago. Tough to please.

I don’t think they should be championship contenders yet. I see the problem as they are going to have a very difficult time becoming championship contenders, because of the recent choices the front office has made.

But, they could pull some moves this summer and prove me wrong.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#77 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:54 am

cjmcallist wrote:I don’t think they should be championship contenders yet. I see the problem as they are going to have a very difficult time becoming championship contenders, because of the recent choices the front office has made.

But, they could pull some moves this summer and prove me wrong.


Well, I certainly understand that feeling and being quite concerned about it.

As far as I see it, the only mistake I see that really ensures things will be considerably otherwise is KP. And I struggle making too much of that one mistake, however big the scale of the consequences ends up being. The mindset with that trade was the same mindset that gave the franchise Doncic.

You wish Nelson had been a bit more careful with the contract of course, but someone else was going to max him if the Mavs didn't and everyone would have been furious if they let him go. It's a situation where if you're not looking to give him the big contract, you're specifically betting against him succeeding. Bet on that and you're hard wrong with KP, now that will get you fired.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#78 » by MrGoat » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:59 am

Golden Knight wrote:
MrGoat wrote:
Golden Knight wrote:Mavs fan?

2012 - Cuban dismantled the championship team. No.7 seed, lost 4-0 to the no.2 seed Thunder who made the Finals.

2014 - No.8 seed. Won 3 games vs eventual Champs and no.1 seed Spurs. (OKC and Miami won a combined 3 games vs SAS)

2015 - No. 7 seed. Dirk was almost 37. Monta was the leading scorer. Lost 4-1 to the no.2 seed Rockets.

2016 - No. 6 seed. Dirk's nearly 38 years old and STILL the team's best player. Lost 4-1 to the no.3 seed and title contenders Thunder.

2020 - No. 7 seed. Lost to no.2 seed and one of the title favorites Clippers in 6 games.

2021 - No. 5 seed. Took the Clippers to 7 games.

Where exactly are the Mavs favored to win there? A lot of coaches would have been swept in 2-4 of those series.


Definite Mavs fan. I asked the question because I was frequenting a mavs fan board http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40450 where most of the members are huge RC defenders and will ignore even some of his faults. I was shocked when a poll there was 50/50 on whether Rick should be fired so I wanted to ask the question here.

If you want to know where I stand on the question I tend to think the answer is somewhere around the second and third option. But as to whether he's actually on the hot seat or not is really up to Luka I think. I was a staunch RC defender until the Harrison Barnes years, those teams weren't supposed to be that bad and when it was obvious tanking was needed they didn't even do a good job of that, we were very lucky Doncic slid to the Hawks and were willing to trade him to us. RC will maximize what roster he has but he isn't the greatest developmental coach and has definitely ruined some careers of some players drafted here. He has a fetish for undersized combo guards which is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing. They really need something different in the defensive coaching, you would have thought RC was a good defensive coach from his Indiana years but if you've watched this team over the past decade... yeah

Your original post should have listed his shortcomings and reasons why he should be in the hot seat.

0-6 in first rounds is definitely not it.


0-6 in first rounds is yet another reason though. It's not asking for 3-3, 2-4, or even 1-5. If he's so good they'd have pulled an upset by now. Hell, I give him a lot of blame for this one. Game 3. You're up 2-0, the team is rolling in the first quarter and the Clippers look like deer in headlights, so what does he do? He benches Luka earlier than normal while the team is going off and ices the team. The Clippers make a quick comeback with the bad coaching decison, the Mavs lean on Luka extra hard later because suddenly they need to and he gets banged up in the process. Ty Lue makes adjustments and RC never regains control. Outcoached by Ty Lue. If the Mavs disappoint in any way next season his seat should be hot
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#79 » by Coach Carter » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:13 am

What a dumb thread. We'll happily take him.
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Re: Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat? 

Post#80 » by EArl » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:21 am

He has nothing to do with the Mavs treadmilling. Its on the GM to put a better team around Luka. The coach can only do so much.
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