Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals?

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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#21 » by Pharmcat » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:33 am

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
Deivork wrote:
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:This isn't exactly what you're looking for since he wasn't really betting on himself, but Shaq left Orlando after his rookie contract...this was in a brief window when RFA didn't exist.


Yeah why not? I don't know what window you're talking about (would be nice if you expand), but Shaq was able to choose LA over Orlando, so it works.


There was a ton of CBA negotiating and fighting going on in the 90s(ultimately culminating with 1998-99 lockout), and a parameter of one of a short term stop-gap agreement in 1995 was that RFA be eliminated. It was re-introduced in 98 or 99 after the lockout, for a few years there, it simply didn't exist. Shaq's first deal ended in that window, in 1996, and so he was UFA as soon as his first contract ended and Orlando had no matching rights.

Orlando, in maybe one of the five dumbest front office decisions ever, lowballed Shaq, and the rest is history.



Didn’t a Orlando newspaper do a poll asking if Shaq was worth that much money and magic fans said no?
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#22 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:39 am

Deivork wrote:
Dominater wrote:Stromile swift thought he was a star. He was one of the 1st ones to take the QO. That blew up in his face.


So it seems like most players who took QO in the last 15 years probably ended up regretting not signing a long term deal... do we have a pattern here?

I've always wondered why don't more players take the QO and become FA sooner, but I guess you really have to be there to renounce to life-altering money...

Like, KAT, for example. It was clear to me the Wolves weren't heading in a good direction, but he signed anyway. Why not wait a year and take part of a winning program? I bet he'd have had more than 5 better options than Minnesotta. Sorry guys.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#23 » by MavfanAus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:57 am

Deivork wrote:I was thinking of Luka in this case, but it seems he will extend his rookie deal like most stars do.

I think there was a case like 10 to 15 years ago but can't really remember who.


I love that there is false narrative on RealGM that Luka is unhappy with the Mavs even though there is no proof, just speculation :lol:
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#24 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:02 am

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
Deivork wrote:
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:This isn't exactly what you're looking for since he wasn't really betting on himself, but Shaq left Orlando after his rookie contract...this was in a brief window when RFA didn't exist.


Yeah why not? I don't know what window you're talking about (would be nice if you expand), but Shaq was able to choose LA over Orlando, so it works.


There was a ton of CBA negotiating and fighting going on in the 90s(ultimately culminating with 1998-99 lockout), and a parameter of one of a short term stop-gap agreement in 1995 was that RFA be eliminated. It was re-introduced in 98 or 99 after the lockout, for a few years there, it simply didn't exist. Shaq's first deal ended in that window, in 1996, and so he was UFA as soon as his first contract ended and Orlando had no matching rights.

Orlando, in maybe one of the five dumbest front office decisions ever, lowballed Shaq, and the rest is history.



Yeah all then they got to sign Hill and TMac because they didn’t have that Shaq money on the books and those two went off and won championship after championship while the Lakers toiled with Shaq and Kobe.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#25 » by Plutonashfan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:04 am

You take the (rookie max) money and run. This betting on yourself with the Q/O stuff usually blows up in your face.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#26 » by Golden Knight » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:25 am

Plutonashfan wrote:You take the (rookie max) money and run. This betting on yourself with the Q/O stuff usually blows up in your face.

This.

Take your first big contract at a young age. Then bet on yourself when you're on your prime and already have a generational wealth to fall back on.

It's mind-boggling how some players like Nerlens Noel, rejects their first big deal.

If I'm an NBA player, the first thing I'd be wary about is a major injury, at worst a career ending injury.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#27 » by Time for Change » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:30 am

Golden Knight wrote:
Plutonashfan wrote:You take the (rookie max) money and run. This betting on yourself with the Q/O stuff usually blows up in your face.

This.

Take your first big contract at a young age. Then bet on yourself when you're on your prime and already have a generational wealth to fall back on.

It's mind-boggling how some players like Nerlens Noel, rejects their first big deal.

If I'm an NBA player, the first thing I'd be wary about is a major injury, at worst a career ending injury.

Yeah Nerlens declined the 4y/$70m extension to take the QO, and then ended up signing for 2y/$3.8m once he was a FA, lol.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#28 » by kbitboc » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:20 am

Players will take the max extensions first and then request a trade couple of years after.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#29 » by TimberFrog » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:24 am

If a player was really desperate to leave but didn't want to take the QO and lose all that money, they could go into FA and sign a 3 year deal with a team and get matched, or do a 4 year deal and last year is a PO, giving the team a 3 year window to win

I know Gordon Hayward did a 3 year deal with a PO for the Hornets, and that is how he left the Jazz early

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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#30 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:13 am

Not anyone who was offered a max extension, yet.


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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#31 » by dc » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:48 am

TimberFrog wrote:I know Gordon Hayward did a 3 year deal with a PO for the Hornets, and that is how he left the Jazz early


Yeah, the one thing people overlook when talking about Hayward leaving the Utah was that the Jazz lowballed him in negotiations, allowing Charlotte (still the Bobcats back then, I think) to tender him that offer sheet with the player option, which he signed and the Jazz then matched.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#32 » by guille_4 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:19 am

You take the 5 year max with a player option in the 5th.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#33 » by jefe » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:51 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
Deivork wrote:
Yeah why not? I don't know what window you're talking about (would be nice if you expand), but Shaq was able to choose LA over Orlando, so it works.


There was a ton of CBA negotiating and fighting going on in the 90s(ultimately culminating with 1998-99 lockout), and a parameter of one of a short term stop-gap agreement in 1995 was that RFA be eliminated. It was re-introduced in 98 or 99 after the lockout, for a few years there, it simply didn't exist. Shaq's first deal ended in that window, in 1996, and so he was UFA as soon as his first contract ended and Orlando had no matching rights.

Orlando, in maybe one of the five dumbest front office decisions ever, lowballed Shaq, and the rest is history.



Yeah all then they got to sign Hill and TMac because they didn’t have that Shaq money on the books and those two went off and won championship after championship while the Lakers toiled with Shaq and Kobe.

Well, to be fair, they almost had Duncan sign that same summer as well, which would have changed the course of NBA history with or without Hill's injuries.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#34 » by Harry Garris » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:58 am

dirkforpres wrote:
Deivork wrote:I was thinking of Luka in this case, but it seems he will extend his rookie deal like most stars do.

I think there was a case like 10 to 15 years ago but can't really remember who.


I wish he wouldn’t. He should hold this moronic front office responsible for giving him a deserving supporting cast before committing long term.

You’re right though, he will re-sign


It's not the front office's fault that Porzingis just gives up on the team whenever he's having a bad day or whatever
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#35 » by jayu70 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:01 pm

Not a star player but back in 2008 Josh Childress and the Atlanta Hawks could not come to terms on a RFA deal. He signed with a Greek club for 3yrs/$20 million becoming the highest payed player in Greece. The Hawks at the time offered 5yr/$33 million, MLE money of $5.3 million at the time.
There was nothing the Hawks could do but watch him leave for nothing though they still retained his rights.
2 years later his rights were traded to the Suns for a 2nd round pick which the Hawks use to select Mike Scott who his currently with the Sixers.
Childress played 2 years and 88 games for the Suns, then only played 14 more games for w othe NBA teams over 2 years then hus NBA career was done.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#36 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:47 pm

jefe wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
There was a ton of CBA negotiating and fighting going on in the 90s(ultimately culminating with 1998-99 lockout), and a parameter of one of a short term stop-gap agreement in 1995 was that RFA be eliminated. It was re-introduced in 98 or 99 after the lockout, for a few years there, it simply didn't exist. Shaq's first deal ended in that window, in 1996, and so he was UFA as soon as his first contract ended and Orlando had no matching rights.

Orlando, in maybe one of the five dumbest front office decisions ever, lowballed Shaq, and the rest is history.



Yeah all then they got to sign Hill and TMac because they didn’t have that Shaq money on the books and those two went off and won championship after championship while the Lakers toiled with Shaq and Kobe.

Well, to be fair, they almost had Duncan sign that same summer as well, which would have changed the course of NBA history with or without Hill's injuries.



They didn’t really though, Tim was never going. Krause had the exact same plan that Orlando did and TD was staying in SA.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#37 » by The_Hater » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:53 pm

Deivork wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Probably not star worthy, but Ben Gordon took the QO and left the Bulls to sign with Detroit.

And that's probably the level of player where taking the QO makes some sense if the team isn't willing to pay to retain the player. An actual star is likely going to be maxed, and a lesser player should probably consider taking the guaranteed money versus risking injury.


So did Greg Monroe, who looked like a borderline star at the time.


And him too. Coincidence or not, it seems both players' careers went downwards after signing the second contract... funny enough

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html


The thing is, neither of those players was in line to get the max. And in both cases, it seems that the team they played for had their value much lower then the player did so they couldn’t get an extension hammered out.

With max players, there isn’t much negotiating going on.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#38 » by jefe » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:22 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
jefe wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

Yeah all then they got to sign Hill and TMac because they didn’t have that Shaq money on the books and those two went off and won championship after championship while the Lakers toiled with Shaq and Kobe.

Well, to be fair, they almost had Duncan sign that same summer as well, which would have changed the course of NBA history with or without Hill's injuries.



They didn’t really though, Tim was never going. Krause had the exact same plan that Orlando did and TD was staying in SA.


It has long been known that Tim Duncan, who spent his entire 19-year career with the San Antonio Spurs, seriously contemplated leaving them and joining the Orlando Magic during the summer of 2000.

“I came close to leaving,” Duncan said in 2010. “Real close.”


https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/15/17018358/tim-duncan-magic-orlando-free-agency-2000-grant-hill-tracy-mcgrady-reaction

I'll take Tim Duncan's words over any realgm poster on this point.
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#39 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 pm

jefe wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
jefe wrote:Well, to be fair, they almost had Duncan sign that same summer as well, which would have changed the course of NBA history with or without Hill's injuries.



They didn’t really though, Tim was never going. Krause had the exact same plan that Orlando did and TD was staying in SA.


It has long been known that Tim Duncan, who spent his entire 19-year career with the San Antonio Spurs, seriously contemplated leaving them and joining the Orlando Magic during the summer of 2000.

“I came close to leaving,” Duncan said in 2010. “Real close.”


https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/15/17018358/tim-duncan-magic-orlando-free-agency-2000-grant-hill-tracy-mcgrady-reaction

I'll take Tim Duncan's words over any realgm poster on this point.


Me too! I just remember at the time he didn’t meet with Orlando (and wouldn’t even look at a phone ringing with Krause number) and he was staying loyal to SA. Sadly my old brain remembers this now that you post it lol. I’ll eat that crow but can I get some chipotle Mayo with it?
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Re: Which star players didn't extend their rookie deals? 

Post#40 » by jazzed77 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:59 pm

jefe wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
There was a ton of CBA negotiating and fighting going on in the 90s(ultimately culminating with 1998-99 lockout), and a parameter of one of a short term stop-gap agreement in 1995 was that RFA be eliminated. It was re-introduced in 98 or 99 after the lockout, for a few years there, it simply didn't exist. Shaq's first deal ended in that window, in 1996, and so he was UFA as soon as his first contract ended and Orlando had no matching rights.

Orlando, in maybe one of the five dumbest front office decisions ever, lowballed Shaq, and the rest is history.



Yeah all then they got to sign Hill and TMac because they didn’t have that Shaq money on the books and those two went off and won championship after championship while the Lakers toiled with Shaq and Kobe.

Well, to be fair, they almost had Duncan sign that same summer as well, which would have changed the course of NBA history with or without Hill's injuries.


Shaq leaving and those guys signing or almost signing in Duncan's case were separated by several years.....including a lockout over the cba so I'm not sure they're actually related. Penny had a good year or 2 scoring after Shaq left though

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