Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns

Moderators: jamaalstar21, -Sammy-, infinite11285, ken6199, Domejandro, bwgood77, Dirk, zimpy27, KingDavid

4 Questions

Poll ended at Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:44 am

Q1: Keep the GM
33
22%
Q1: Fire the GM
2
1%
Q2: Keep the coach
33
22%
Q2: Fire the coach
3
2%
Q3: Performed better than expected
37
25%
Q3: Performed as expected
1
1%
Q3: Performed worse than expected
2
1%
Q4: Rising Team
29
19%
Q4: Treadmill Team
8
5%
Q4: Waning Team
3
2%
 
Total votes: 151

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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#41 » by xdrta+ » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:38 pm

ANTETOKOUNBROS wrote:The talent is there, if Paul opts out and comes back for peanuts and give the Suns some room to add defensive talent to the front court, they could come back if Ayton takes another leap.


Why would Paul come back for peanuts when he can come back for $44M?
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#42 » by ANTETOKOUNBROS » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:40 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
ANTETOKOUNBROS wrote:The talent is there, if Paul opts out and comes back for peanuts and give the Suns some room to add defensive talent to the front court, they could come back if Ayton takes another leap.


Why would Paul come back for peanuts when he can come back for $44M?


Yep, agree. Well he could pull a Tom Brady and take less money to give his team the ability to surround him with talent. He could and would probably instead join the Lakers instead anyways.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#43 » by spanishninja » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:08 pm

DelAbbot wrote:Signing Chris Paul to a big 2 year deal would put a ceiling on this team.
PHI, BKN, MIL, LAC (with Kawhi), LAL are all better teams if not for injuries.


PHI, BKN and MIL are not in the West. Kawhi is missing at least half a season most likely so the Suns still have a chance to be a top 3 team in the conference, which is just slightly worse than where they are this year. Any Suns fan would gladly take that outlook.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#44 » by Ripp » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:14 pm

Why are we assuming that Kawhi will come back from ACL surgery being anywhere near the same player? The Lakers will still be an old and injury-prone team.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#45 » by EArl » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:14 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
EArl wrote:
skones wrote:
It'd be more insane to not pay him and take a mammoth step back next season.

They have to pay him so he can stay. Without CP3, they're a first round team at best. Maybe not even make it through the play in tournament.


I don't believe that. Besides, with him they're not a championship team, as was proven. You really want to hamstring yourself for the next 3 years, overpaying a 36-39 year old? Foolish.

I mean they were 2 games away. I get your point though. I wouldn't want to overpay him as well, but Cam Payne isn't getting you past the first round.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#46 » by EArl » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:20 pm

Ripp wrote:Why are we assuming that Kawhi will come back from ACL surgery being anywhere near the same player? The Lakers will still be an old and injury-prone team.

For all the talk about us being injury prone, it hasn't really been an issue other than last year. A lot of teams had issues with injuries so Id say the short offseason had to with that. Lebrons injury was a freak injury. If someone crashes into you, then you would get injured too. AD had a similar situation where he didn't have time to rest from the offseason. I wouldn't count us out.
I think us, the Nuggets and Jazz will be in competition in the West.
If Kawhi doesn't come back next season then its a throwaway for them. Actually im not sure about Murray either.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#47 » by vgroc » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:22 pm

Just bring CP3 back and hope Cam, Ayton, Bridges and Booker improve a bit. Not much more needed IMO, maybe try to get a better backup big than Kaminsky.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#48 » by skones » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:30 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
EArl wrote:
skones wrote:
It'd be more insane to not pay him and take a mammoth step back next season.

They have to pay him so he can stay. Without CP3, they're a first round team at best. Maybe not even make it through the play in tournament.


I don't believe that. Besides, with him they're not a championship team, as was proven. You really want to hamstring yourself for the next 3 years, overpaying a 36-39 year old? Foolish.


Right, because there are zero ways that roster improves......
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#49 » by DCasey91 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:21 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
og15 wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:Monty Williams was terrible in the finals. They need to get him a defensive coordinator

What were his options? The roster didn't really have options for him to drastically adjust how he was able to defend.



Wall defense


With who though? Ayton and Crowder are the ones with size that’s it.

The wall works with size without it Giannis is free like the hulk smash smash ala Shaq/Lebron.

Not to mention Lopez/Middleton/Holiday/Tucker/Portis as just having more size against their opponents all ends up.

Raptors could build a wall, Giannis was young. But look at their size and quality of defenders. Leonard/Siakam/Og/Ibaka/Gasol that’s five count em five.

Massive massive difference. Monty played his best card for the first two games (pace and space).

Bud just assigned Holiday to Paul and that was that.

Playoffs is highly matchup dependent.

Imagine Lebron having a zero direct counter. Smash smash time and that’s sweet FA you can do about it.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#50 » by DCasey91 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:24 pm

Lol at people saying build a wall. With who? Both are undersized compared to Giannis.

You think Adding in Mikal will help? Not likely.

They had 79 ORB with five over ten ORB’s.

Just like the Lakers last year. If you are small coming up against sized opponents then be prepared for a smashing on the inside.

It’s about personnel instead of just concepts.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#51 » by Up-And-Coming » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:48 am

ILOVEIT wrote:Ayton, like Hero and Duncan last year, just way overrated.
Name me one actual skill move he made other than dunking or laying in serve ups by CP??
And in the the guy he's defending.....50 points in a must win game.

I guaranteeeeeeeeeeeeeee you that Ayton will have super average numbers next year when CP3 takes off.

Loved seeing small market teams get the love....


Didn’t Ayton average 18 and 11.5 last year without CP3?

Anyways, the biggest pressing issue with the Suns is whether or not they throw an even bigger bag at CP3 (3 years $90ish million) because if they do, he’s most likely staying. If they decide to offer him less, he’ll maybe start to look at other opportunities.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#52 » by Yeggo Poleggo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:57 am

The Suns will one way or another become worse with or without CP3. Theyre not beating a couple of healthy West coast teams, never mind East coast teams.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#53 » by baller16 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:05 am

They gotta go all-in. I don't think they have enough to make the finals against a stronger West with aging CP3 next season. But I do think that Booker is good enough to be the leading scorer on a championship team. He has the mentality and skill, and he really showed it off in his first ever playoff run at age 24. Exceeded all expectations imo. The degree of difficulty in his shot making was up there with some of the best in the league.

Suns need to put out the best offer they can for Dame. That would be the ideal star they need but I don't think they have enough to get him
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#54 » by donnieme » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:11 am

ILOVEIT wrote:Ayton, like Hero and Duncan last year, just way overrated.
Name me one actual skill move he made other than dunking or laying in serve ups by CP??
And in the the guy he's defending.....50 points in a must win game.

I guaranteeeeeeeeeeeeeee you that Ayton will have super average numbers next year when CP3 takes off.

Loved seeing small market teams get the love....

His play as a rollman and finisher got CP3 and Booker all those open jumpers they were walking into so the gravity was huge even when people thought he disappeared. It wasn't enough to replace actually being able to create as the biggest guy on the floor but it was huge value. He did get a bit overrated, I think a few saw the numbers and thought he was getting them like Shaq.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#55 » by skones » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:20 am

Pharmcat wrote:
og15 wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:Monty Williams was terrible in the finals. They need to get him a defensive coordinator

What were his options? The roster didn't really have options for him to drastically adjust how he was able to defend.



Wall defense


Any time a successful wall was employed, there was a guy who was able to do a decent job on Giannis from the jump. It's pretty clear that Giannis was able to toss around Ayton like his ragdoll with absolutely no resistance in the finals. On top of that, the wall defense was used when Giannis would set up at the top of the arc and go barrelling into the paint in the halfcourt in isolation. It's not meant to be set up for the PnR, or post catches, free throw line catches, or attacks from the wing. The wall was also, pre-dunker spot which Giannis was able to make simple dumpoffs early on in the series to find guys like Pat and Bobby cutting to the hoop wide open. Giannis very much limited his straight line drives from the top of the key. He was quick, he was decisive, and the time teams usually had to set up their defensive look? That wasn't given to Phoenix.

It was as if something clicked for him.

With that being said, Monty was outcoached in a big way in this series. Even if the wall isn't the answer, he wasn't throwing any real looks Giannis's way to get him out of a rhythm. I mean, at least throw a bunch of **** at a wall and see if it works but he didn't do that. It more or less felt like he crossed his fingers and hoped for the best all series long while allowing his offense to get away from the things that made them so dangerous throughout their first two games. Just not a lot of creativity to alleviate the pressure Holiday was putting on Paul.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#56 » by DrWood » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:52 am

ElectricMayhem wrote:I thought this would be a good idea to do for all of the eliminated teams. Each day I will post one team that did not make the playoffs and any playoff teams that were eliminated that day. Answer as many of the following questions as you'd like:

GM: Change or keep?
Keep
Coach: Change or keep?
Keep
Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
Above
Rising, falling, or treadmill?
Depends. They'll need a PG. Their core is young and should improve.
If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?
Get a PG or two. And an interior defender.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#57 » by Uncle Mxy » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:39 am

I'd be wondering what Sarver's post-mortem of the Suns is.
Does he feel he needs to be more of a hands-on tightwad?
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#58 » by PANDEMONEUM » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:02 am

i wouldnt spend the $ on CP.
yea i know theyr going to be short 2 PGs now.
but they also need a PF and a backup PF/C
4 pieces needed.

booker, cam, bridges, ayton.
thats a great 4 that are all young.

dont get into the $ trap.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#59 » by donnieme » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:27 am

They tried different looks Giannis just beat them all. It also didn't help that they didn't have very athletic defensive tools. Their help defending was always someone who had no business running into Giannis path. After Crowder it's CP3, Booker, Bridges, Kamminsky, Cam Johnson and Payne. They also don't have the kind of athleticism to make defensive recovery plays.

Giannis buckets from Game 5 tell the tale of Phoenix woes.

The wall defense was actually present in this game. Giannis made kick out passes his teammates converted on, this was where they realised they'd rather have Giannis in single coverage than have the team torch them. Also a couple possessions at the start where Bridges was sent as a late doubler and was basically useless, didn't even force a pass, the doubles weren't the best either but these guys aren't the kind of help to stop Giannis when he's deep.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Phoenix Suns 

Post#60 » by AussieBuck » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:40 am

Get a decent PF/C and a PG prospect for Paul to tutor and they're good.
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