Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic

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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#481 » by naabzor » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:21 am

Clay Davis wrote:
life_saver wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: It's more about how they abandoned ship and find the easy path instead of fighting through adversity and showing some pride/loyalty.

I mean people wanna see MJ grow and come back to dethrone the Bad Boys instead of just joining them for example.

Giannis probably would have done the same thing as KD or Lebron if Bucks failed a title by next couple of years..in this current era where stars are constantly judged based on number of rings irrespective of how well they have played, almost all stars would eventually form a suepr team if they fail to win ring by end of their 8th-9th season...in case of Giannis, atleast their Frotn office surrounded him with 2 stars...also, KD did stay at Thunder for 9 seasons before leaving..


How many MVPs has Jrue Holiday won? How many MVPs do you think Khris Middleton has been snubbed for?

KD has been surrounded by superstar talent literally his entire career. There's a massive difference between your team making moves and internally developing talent versus jumping ship to join a loaded team or colluding with other players to form a super team. It's really not at all complicated.


What is really the difference here? The goal for every team is to win the ring. Every team should do everything they can to achieve the result. Do you think that if a team is presented with the opportunity to stack 3 or 4 stars they should just go on and say oh no this is not good for the league parity or integrity, I will stuck with my homegrown talent. This is irrelevant. In the end no rule was broken by the team or the players and this is what matters. The NBA should be the one to say something and put rules in place to prevent players or teams to just stack MVPs without any consequence.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#482 » by WeSkrongDen » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:32 am

naabzor wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:
life_saver wrote:Giannis probably would have done the same thing as KD or Lebron if Bucks failed a title by next couple of years..in this current era where stars are constantly judged based on number of rings irrespective of how well they have played, almost all stars would eventually form a suepr team if they fail to win ring by end of their 8th-9th season...in case of Giannis, atleast their Frotn office surrounded him with 2 stars...also, KD did stay at Thunder for 9 seasons before leaving..


How many MVPs has Jrue Holiday won? How many MVPs do you think Khris Middleton has been snubbed for?

KD has been surrounded by superstar talent literally his entire career. There's a massive difference between your team making moves and internally developing talent versus jumping ship to join a loaded team or colluding with other players to form a super team. It's really not at all complicated.


What is really the difference here? The goal for every team is to win the ring. Every team should do everything they can to achieve the result. Do you think that if a team is presented with the opportunity to stack 3 or 4 stars they should just go on and say oh no this is not good for the league parity or integrity, I will stuck with my homegrown talent. This is irrelevant. In the end no rule was broken by the team or the players and this is what matters. The NBA should be the one to say something and put rules in place to prevent players or teams to just stack MVPs without any consequence.


The NBA would love to put those type of rules in place, giving players less freedom of movement, teams more control, ect... But the players union would never go for it. Unfortunately the super team era/mercenary era is here to stay. Guys like Giannis are rare and most players prefer to take the easy way out like Lebron and KD.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#483 » by kbitboc » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:45 am

WeSkrongDen wrote:
naabzor wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:
How many MVPs has Jrue Holiday won? How many MVPs do you think Khris Middleton has been snubbed for?

KD has been surrounded by superstar talent literally his entire career. There's a massive difference between your team making moves and internally developing talent versus jumping ship to join a loaded team or colluding with other players to form a super team. It's really not at all complicated.


What is really the difference here? The goal for every team is to win the ring. Every team should do everything they can to achieve the result. Do you think that if a team is presented with the opportunity to stack 3 or 4 stars they should just go on and say oh no this is not good for the league parity or integrity, I will stuck with my homegrown talent. This is irrelevant. In the end no rule was broken by the team or the players and this is what matters. The NBA should be the one to say something and put rules in place to prevent players or teams to just stack MVPs without any consequence.


The NBA would love to put those type of rules in place, giving players less freedom of movement, teams more control, ect... But the players union would never go for it. Unfortunately the super team era/mercenary era is here to stay. Guys like Giannis are rare and most players prefer to take the easy way out like Lebron and KD.


But how was it more easy for Lebron during his second stint in Cleveland and after? This Bucks team minus Giannis would easily beat the Cavs team minus Lebron and the Lakers team minus Lebron. In reality, Lebron's last 2 rings were harder than Giannis's current ring.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#484 » by hege53190 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:12 am

kbitboc wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
naabzor wrote:
What is really the difference here? The goal for every team is to win the ring. Every team should do everything they can to achieve the result. Do you think that if a team is presented with the opportunity to stack 3 or 4 stars they should just go on and say oh no this is not good for the league parity or integrity, I will stuck with my homegrown talent. This is irrelevant. In the end no rule was broken by the team or the players and this is what matters. The NBA should be the one to say something and put rules in place to prevent players or teams to just stack MVPs without any consequence.


The NBA would love to put those type of rules in place, giving players less freedom of movement, teams more control, ect... But the players union would never go for it. Unfortunately the super team era/mercenary era is here to stay. Guys like Giannis are rare and most players prefer to take the easy way out like Lebron and KD.


But how was it more easy for Lebron during his second stint in Cleveland and after? This Bucks team minus Giannis would easily beat the Cavs team minus Lebron and the Lakers team minus Lebron. In reality, Lebron's last 2 rings were harder than Giannis's current ring.


LeBron pretty much forced Cleveland and Minnesota to make a deal for a 2nd team All-NBA Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving was a 2 time all-star at 21. LeGM just missed the boat on Talent and injury concerns.

In LA he knew they had cap space and assets. He had his high school friend hold a frachise hostage for their top 5 talent and he couldn't lure Kawhi. Pathetic.
blazza18 wrote:Bucks aren't making the finals with this team. Jeez.It's nothing against Midds, Brogdon, or Bledsoe but that core isn't one you settle on as a finished product around Giannis. We're clearly not an elite team or one who'll contend for a title.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#485 » by kbitboc » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:32 am

hege53190 wrote:
kbitboc wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
The NBA would love to put those type of rules in place, giving players less freedom of movement, teams more control, ect... But the players union would never go for it. Unfortunately the super team era/mercenary era is here to stay. Guys like Giannis are rare and most players prefer to take the easy way out like Lebron and KD.


But how was it more easy for Lebron during his second stint in Cleveland and after? This Bucks team minus Giannis would easily beat the Cavs team minus Lebron and the Lakers team minus Lebron. In reality, Lebron's last 2 rings were harder than Giannis's current ring.


LeBron pretty much forced Cleveland and Minnesota to make a deal for a 2nd team All-NBA Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving was a 2 time all-star at 21. LeGM just missed the boat on Talent and injury concerns.

In LA he knew they had cap space and assets. He had his high school friend hold a frachise hostage for their top 5 talent and he couldn't lure Kawhi. Pathetic.


So it is only perception that he had it easier. In reality, Lebron after the Heat had it harder than Giannis because the Cavs with Irving and Love minus Lebron had a lottery winning percentage. The Lakers also is probably a borderline lottery team without Lebron. The Bucks without Giannis is still a playoff team.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#486 » by Nuntius » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:39 am

kbitboc wrote:
mulamutti wrote:
kbitboc wrote:Lebron's ring last year was not on a super team.


A super team is any team that is formed overnight via forced and collusive trades. Lebron obviously colluded with a top 5 level player in the league, while he was on contract and forced his way into the Lakers. I would classify this as a super team.

Basically a team that is gently developed over time, with good scouting, development, coaching, system, playoff battles, etc. is what you consider a well deserving winner. So yes I agree with the general sentiment that Giannis's rings > Lebron and KD's rings. Particularly KD. The non-super team championship winners of recent years are the bucks obviously, the raptors, and the pre-durant warriors, mavericks.

Even the Spurs (Duncan/Pop), Lakers (Kobe/Gasol and Kobe/Shaq) and Bulls dynasties were all formed pretty organically. Acquired players through the draft and developed them, a trade or two to get them over the top. So i consider those pretty legit championships.

Lebron and Durant have been the primary offenders and deserve only asterisk-championships IMO. I love Lebron's game and root for him on most matchups, but the collusive super-teamy nature of his teams does diminish the quality of his championships, and dont even get me started on Durant.

While Lebron and Durant are the primary offenders that have reaped rewards in the form of championships, the list of unsuccessful offenders is quite long: Harden, Kyrie, AD, the Warriors getting durant, paul george, kawhi(for leaving a system and forcing a trade out while on contract), and several other players. I hope Booker, Doncic, Young, Jokic and the current era of stars learn from Giannis' example and stay for the long haul. create true rivalries like the old days.


So basically it is your perception that they are a superteam but in reality they are not.


No, it's a matter of different definitions. What you call a superteam and what the poster you responded to considers a superteam are probably two different things.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#487 » by hege53190 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:32 am

kbitboc wrote:
hege53190 wrote:
kbitboc wrote:
But how was it more easy for Lebron during his second stint in Cleveland and after? This Bucks team minus Giannis would easily beat the Cavs team minus Lebron and the Lakers team minus Lebron. In reality, Lebron's last 2 rings were harder than Giannis's current ring.


LeBron pretty much forced Cleveland and Minnesota to make a deal for a 2nd team All-NBA Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving was a 2 time all-star at 21. LeGM just missed the boat on Talent and injury concerns.

In LA he knew they had cap space and assets. He had his high school friend hold a frachise hostage for their top 5 talent and he couldn't lure Kawhi. Pathetic.


So it is only perception that he had it easier. In reality, Lebron after the Heat had it harder than Giannis because the Cavs with Irving and Love minus Lebron had a lottery winning percentage. The Lakers also is probably a borderline lottery team without Lebron. The Bucks without Giannis is still a playoff team.


Kevin Love was 2 time all nba second team 25 year old when he joined LeBron. At 25 years old he has more all-nba selections than anybody Giannis has ever played with. LeBron made him worse. Kyrie made all-NBA in LeBron's first year. That is one more all-NBA selection than anybody that Giannis has ever played with.

So no.

Anthony Davis is all-nba first team 4 times. How anybody can say a top 5 player playing with another top 5 player is talent disadvantaged is just being dumb. Let alone a multiple time MVP and someone who wants to be known as the GOAT.
blazza18 wrote:Bucks aren't making the finals with this team. Jeez.It's nothing against Midds, Brogdon, or Bledsoe but that core isn't one you settle on as a finished product around Giannis. We're clearly not an elite team or one who'll contend for a title.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#488 » by WeSkrongDen » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:46 am

kbitboc wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
naabzor wrote:
What is really the difference here? The goal for every team is to win the ring. Every team should do everything they can to achieve the result. Do you think that if a team is presented with the opportunity to stack 3 or 4 stars they should just go on and say oh no this is not good for the league parity or integrity, I will stuck with my homegrown talent. This is irrelevant. In the end no rule was broken by the team or the players and this is what matters. The NBA should be the one to say something and put rules in place to prevent players or teams to just stack MVPs without any consequence.


The NBA would love to put those type of rules in place, giving players less freedom of movement, teams more control, ect... But the players union would never go for it. Unfortunately the super team era/mercenary era is here to stay. Guys like Giannis are rare and most players prefer to take the easy way out like Lebron and KD.


But how was it more easy for Lebron during his second stint in Cleveland and after? This Bucks team minus Giannis would easily beat the Cavs team minus Lebron and the Lakers team minus Lebron. In reality, Lebron's last 2 rings were harder than Giannis's current ring.


No if AD is healthy, then the Lakers are better. AD was a top 5 player in the league last year. That alone puts the Lakers over the Bucks. That Cavs team was better than the Bucks too. Look at the 2016 Finals. The Cavs won and Lebron didn't play as well as Giannis. Kyrie tore it up, his talent is beyond Middleton and Holiday. Middleton and Holiday didn't play very well in the Finals, it was all Giannis.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#489 » by hege53190 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:53 am

WeSkrongDen wrote:
kbitboc wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
The NBA would love to put those type of rules in place, giving players less freedom of movement, teams more control, ect... But the players union would never go for it. Unfortunately the super team era/mercenary era is here to stay. Guys like Giannis are rare and most players prefer to take the easy way out like Lebron and KD.


But how was it more easy for Lebron during his second stint in Cleveland and after? This Bucks team minus Giannis would easily beat the Cavs team minus Lebron and the Lakers team minus Lebron. In reality, Lebron's last 2 rings were harder than Giannis's current ring.


No if AD is healthy, then the Lakers are better. AD was a top 5 player in the league last year. That alone puts the Lakers over the Bucks. That Cavs team was better than the Bucks too. Look at the 2016 Finals. The Cavs won and Lebron didn't play as well as Giannis. Kyrie tore it up, his talent is beyond Middleton and Holiday. Middleton and Holiday didn't play very well in the Finals, it was all Giannis.


Giannis had help. Just not as much as LeBron. Nobody wins by themselves. After game 2 the Bucks played good D and made a lot of shots. Giannis was the Catalyst but nobody wins without a pretty good team playing well.
blazza18 wrote:Bucks aren't making the finals with this team. Jeez.It's nothing against Midds, Brogdon, or Bledsoe but that core isn't one you settle on as a finished product around Giannis. We're clearly not an elite team or one who'll contend for a title.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#490 » by JHFVF07 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:42 am

Sometimes I think most of you guys simply dont watch the games...Last year, the third best player on the Lakers was KCP!! Caruso(!!!) had an important role on this team. The Bucks won 2 games on the ECF without Gianis, there's no way that the Lakers could win a game from Denver, without LeBron, last year.

But lets ignore what we saw when watch these games for the sake of our hate filled narrative.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#491 » by AMW27 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:24 pm

WeSkrongDen wrote:
Jagic Mohnson wrote:You guys argue like those boy band groupies who say backstreet boys are better than nysnc because of this or that reason. Just enjoy greatness because Giannis is legendary and so are Kd and Lebron. This is your generation Bird, Jordan, and Magic.


Lebron and KD's games have unfortunately been stained by the negative effect they've had on the league and it's culture.


I don't believe their legacies are stained. What Durant did in 2016 by joining the Warriors was weak. But that still doesn't dismiss him from being probably a top 15 player of all time.

LeBron doesn't deserve criticism for leaving Cleveland if you believe his cast wasn't that good.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#492 » by AMW27 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:27 pm

Deimos wrote:gainnis is speaking facts. winning one the hard way, with the same team has more meaning.

theres so much context that goes with it. sticking through the tough times. losing but just getting better and better. its a great feeling to win like that.

That Mavs championship is a good example, the toronto raptors championship, detroit pistons,

Kobe staying on the same team. Battling through the tough times is another example. staying with one team means something.

being able to join 2 other allstars and win a ring is a lot easier. gainnis couldve done it, Kobe couldve done it. etc.
Kobe definitely deserves credit for staying in LA. But if the Gasol trade never happens, does he stay?
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#493 » by JHFVF07 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:47 pm

AMW27 wrote:
Deimos wrote:gainnis is speaking facts. winning one the hard way, with the same team has more meaning.

theres so much context that goes with it. sticking through the tough times. losing but just getting better and better. its a great feeling to win like that.

That Mavs championship is a good example, the toronto raptors championship, detroit pistons,

Kobe staying on the same team. Battling through the tough times is another example. staying with one team means something.

being able to join 2 other allstars and win a ring is a lot easier. gainnis couldve done it, Kobe couldve done it. etc.
Kobe definitely deserves credit for staying in LA. But if the Gasol trade never happens, does he stay?


Lol, Kobe ASKED to be traded before Gasol trade. We will never know, but Im pretty sure Giannis would do the same If MIL dont get Jrue on a trade most here thought It was an overpay from the Bucks.
It is easy to be loyal, to be the guy who "choses" the hard way when you're put on a good situation(Duncan). This Bucks team is a lot better than any team LeBron had in Cleveland before 2010. If you take a look on Middleton numbers during these playofs added with his good defense, I have a hard time finding a guy, not named Anthony Davis, who played better on a LeBron's team, and definitely there's no third option better than Jrue Holiday. I repeat, Im considering playoffs performances while playing with Lebron, not what they did in previous regular seasons.

Giannis deserves all praises in the world, but he should think better before point his finger to others ATG, he still 26 years old and a lot can change. Lets hope he doesnt becomes the next Durant(the guy who spoke against superteams).
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#494 » by mulamutti » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:54 pm

kbitboc wrote:
mulamutti wrote:
kbitboc wrote:Lebron's ring last year was not on a super team.


A super team is any team that is formed overnight via forced and collusive trades. Lebron obviously colluded with a top 5 level player in the league, while he was on contract and forced his way into the Lakers. I would classify this as a super team.

Basically a team that is gently developed over time, with good scouting, development, coaching, system, playoff battles, etc. is what you consider a well deserving winner. So yes I agree with the general sentiment that Giannis's rings > Lebron and KD's rings. Particularly KD. The non-super team championship winners of recent years are the bucks obviously, the raptors, and the pre-durant warriors, mavericks.

Even the Spurs (Duncan/Pop), Lakers (Kobe/Gasol and Kobe/Shaq) and Bulls dynasties were all formed pretty organically. Acquired players through the draft and developed them, a trade or two to get them over the top. So i consider those pretty legit championships.

Lebron and Durant have been the primary offenders and deserve only asterisk-championships IMO. I love Lebron's game and root for him on most matchups, but the collusive super-teamy nature of his teams does diminish the quality of his championships, and dont even get me started on Durant.

While Lebron and Durant are the primary offenders that have reaped rewards in the form of championships, the list of unsuccessful offenders is quite long: Harden, Kyrie, AD, the Warriors getting durant, paul george, kawhi(for leaving a system and forcing a trade out while on contract), and several other players. I hope Booker, Doncic, Young, Jokic and the current era of stars learn from Giannis' example and stay for the long haul. create true rivalries like the old days.


So basically it is your perception that they are a superteam but in reality they are not.


Yes, everything stated here is an opinion, including yours. Youre reality is actually not reality. its your opinion. I'm not sure what you're getting at. I've stated that I think superstar collusion should be disallowed whether that be explicity disallowed by league rules (hard to do), or through some other means. Giannis bashing superteams is the best step yet, to point out to stars that not all championships are equal.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#495 » by UcanUwill » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:35 pm

PS work FIBA just shared, I thought it looked cool :

Image
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#496 » by CraftylikeaFox » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:56 pm

AMW27 wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
Jagic Mohnson wrote:You guys argue like those boy band groupies who say backstreet boys are better than nysnc because of this or that reason. Just enjoy greatness because Giannis is legendary and so are Kd and Lebron. This is your generation Bird, Jordan, and Magic.


Lebron and KD's games have unfortunately been stained by the negative effect they've had on the league and it's culture.


I don't believe their legacies are stained. What Durant did in 2016 by joining the Warriors was weak. But that still doesn't dismiss him from being probably a top 15 player of all time.

LeBron doesn't deserve criticism for leaving Cleveland if you believe his cast wasn't that good.


KD would’ve wound up as a top 20 player ever even without those rings. In reality they did very little for his legacy. Most people won’t look back on his career and view those rings as the thing that finally pushed him over the edge. The same will probably wind up being true with any rings he wins on the Nets. He can win 3 there and wind up with 5 total and he still won’t make too many peoples top 10 all time. His legacy now is as an all time great player, but someone who needed to stack the deck to insane degrees to compete. He will end his career with a bunch of hardware that won’t matter and no real career defining moments.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#497 » by DroseReturnChi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:59 pm

schnakenpopanz wrote:first Dirk, now him. hope this teaches a lesson. suns are no super team either

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not anyone can win without a superteam. the most infamous one is Dirk and Giannis is the rightful successor.
He achieved not someone could do in a decade.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#498 » by AMW27 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:01 pm

JHFVF07 wrote:
AMW27 wrote:
Deimos wrote:gainnis is speaking facts. winning one the hard way, with the same team has more meaning.

theres so much context that goes with it. sticking through the tough times. losing but just getting better and better. its a great feeling to win like that.

That Mavs championship is a good example, the toronto raptors championship, detroit pistons,

Kobe staying on the same team. Battling through the tough times is another example. staying with one team means something.

being able to join 2 other allstars and win a ring is a lot easier. gainnis couldve done it, Kobe couldve done it. etc.
Kobe definitely deserves credit for staying in LA. But if the Gasol trade never happens, does he stay?


Lol, Kobe ASKED to be traded before Gasol trade. We will never know, but Im pretty sure Giannis would do the same If MIL dont get Jrue on a trade most here thought It was an overpay from the Bucks.
It is easy to be loyal, to be the guy who "choses" the hard way when you're put on a good situation(Duncan). This Bucks team is a lot better than any team LeBron had in Cleveland before 2010. If you take a look on Middleton numbers during these playofs added with his good defense, I have a hard time finding a guy, not named Anthony Davis, who played better on a LeBron's team, and definitely there's no third option better than Jrue Holiday. I repeat, Im considering playoffs performances while playing with Lebron, not what they did in previous regular seasons.

Giannis deserves all praises in the world, but he should think better before point his finger to others ATG, he still 26 years old and a lot can change. Lets hope he doesnt becomes the next Durant(the guy who spoke against superteams).


You have some good points. Do you believe Middleton in this year's playoffs was a better playoff performer than Wade in the 2012 playoffs and Kyrie in the 2016 playoffs?

Also you say Giannis should think before pointing his finger to all time greats, and a lot could change. Yeah but because of this title with Milwaukee he may not get that much heat as LeBron and Durant if he left to join a superteam. Even if it's hypocritical.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#499 » by Infinite Llamas » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:50 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:
schnakenpopanz wrote:first Dirk, now him. hope this teaches a lesson. suns are no super team either

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not anyone can win without a superteam. the most infamous one is Dirk and Giannis is the rightful successor.
He achieved not someone could do in a decade.


Again...it’s not hard to win without a super team if you aren’t facing a super team. How is this point lost on so many? Are we really gonna compare this Suns team to the 2011 Heat? A team where JvG said before the season started that he’d be shocked if they lost one game all year?

This series was more likened to 1993-94 when Hakeem faced the Knicks. Two relatively even ranked teams. No real advantages on either side, in theory.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#500 » by AMW27 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:13 pm

Giannis deserves a lot of praise for not joining a superteam.

But a player has the right to leave a team if they feel if their surroundings isn't good enough for them to win.

Some say Lillard should leave Portland. How good do you think Lillard's teams have been around him from day one up until know? He hasn't been losing to superteams every single year in the playoffs.



If he stays with the Blazers he will get criticized for never winning. If he leaves to go win eslewhere, he's criticized for joining another supertar.

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