Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic

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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#401 » by WeSkrongDen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:17 pm

C3H6N6O6 wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
C3H6N6O6 wrote:they weren't in the year they won. That is a fact. Do details only matter when its LeBron and not when it is Giannis?


Kyrie missed most of the first half of the season lol. He was coming off knee surgery.

Why does that detail matter but not the injuries during the playoffs this year to stars?


Injuries in the playoffs happen every year. Whether Kyrie was an all star or not that year is irrelevant. He's an all star caliber player just because he didn't play in enough games during the regular season doesn't change that. In fact he's an all nba caliber player. I have no idea why you're bringing up some dumb point about Kyrie not making the all star game because he was hurt the first half of the season.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#402 » by MostValQuitter » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:19 pm

WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
MostValQuitter wrote:
Both Kevin Love and Irving were allstars the previous year to Lebron joining what is this nonsense.


Dude, if Love is part of your big 3, you are not a superteam, whats the matter Love was successful statpadder in Minny, he was bar none by far most overrated player at that time. Irving was the only Lebron teammate reminiscent of star, it was just LeBron, immature Irving and a bunch of role players.


Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


People are forgetting how good Love was in Minny. That Cleveland team was viewed as the prohibitive favorite along with the GSW to win the championship. It was basically a two team league at that point.

People are just inventing trash to defend Lebron whatever I am done with it.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#403 » by WeSkrongDen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:19 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Dude, if Love is part of your big 3, you are not a superteam, whats the matter Love was successful statpadder in Minny, he was bar none by far most overrated player at that time. Irving was the only Lebron teammate reminiscent of star, it was just LeBron, immature Irving and a bunch of role players.


Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


Team was in win mode and had 2 first overall pick selections who werent part of the timeline. I would argue they could have gotten someone much better than ultimate empty stat Guy that was Love, maybe then it would have been a super team, but hey, it worked out for them, not a super team tho.


They could have gotten someone else but LeGM wanted love lol. I wanted them to just take Embiid. LeBron would have had an insane team but he has no patience and prefers to bleed times dry and then leave.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#404 » by WeSkrongDen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:21 pm

MostValQuitter wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Dude, if Love is part of your big 3, you are not a superteam, whats the matter Love was successful statpadder in Minny, he was bar none by far most overrated player at that time. Irving was the only Lebron teammate reminiscent of star, it was just LeBron, immature Irving and a bunch of role players.


Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


People are forgetting how good Love was in Minny. That Cleveland team was viewed as the prohibitive favorite along with the GSW to win the championship. It was basically a two team league at that point.

People are just inventing trash to defend Lebron whatever I am done with it.


Love was bad against GSW. It was just a bad matchup for him. But he ate up the Eastern conference. It just so happens that GSW were the only real competition.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#405 » by Slot Machine » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:23 pm

C3H6N6O6 wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
C3H6N6O6 wrote:Fact in that sentence is that LeBron was the only all-star on a team that beat a 73-win Warriors team. Irving and Love weren't all-stars.


What are you talking about lol

Irving and Love weren't all-stars in 2016. Don't go into details why that happened please because the whole premise of this thread is to ignore details.

You clinging to this point as some sort of “gotcha” only shows how weak your argument is.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#406 » by nikster » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:25 pm

mulamutti wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:
shi-woo wrote:
Because all of those guys became team mates through organic means, not by collusion and intentional team building to break the competative balance of the league?

None of those guys are viewed as mercenaries for hire. Journeyman used to be a term used for borderline scrubs and roleplayers, now it's used for arguable the best player in the game. :roll: :roll:

Teams had to give stuff up to get Shaq to MIA. Gasol to LA. KG to BOS. Teams had to draft and make great trades to for nucleus's like Bird/McHale and Jordan/Pippen.

They didn't sit down and form those teams over a class of wine and dinner 3 years before hand


And why do you think a player wanting to dictate his own future is somehow bad but a GM doing the same thing is good? Really trying to understand the real thinking behind this. Again, why is a player taking his destiny in his own hands bad but you all love when a GM does it?


A GM's job is to form a team within the rules of the NBA salary cap etc. A player's job is to play for the contract he signs. Not sign a contract and then force trades. A player can freely sign wherever he wants when he is a free agent. I don't think collusion should be allowed as a player. Because it disrupts the intent of the NBA rules which hopes for parity and not for all the superstars to just join big market teams and beat everyone else for eternity. Do you prefer a championship like the one Giannis just had, or one where a superstar just calls up his buddies, joins any host team where its possible to arrange the collusion, and then takes a easier path to victory (easier, not easy). In addition, the team has very limited identity, or identity for a very short period of time. The lakers from last year wsa formed in one off season, and had no identity and yet won the championship.

None of this discussion diminishes the basketball quality of Lebron, durant or other serial colluders. it just points out that their superteam championship is less than a championship earned by all aspects of the franchise, scouting, coaching, player development, GM making smart trades and moves, and then winning a championship.

Parity never existed in the NBA, even before player collusion
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#407 » by nikster » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:29 pm

WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


Team was in win mode and had 2 first overall pick selections who werent part of the timeline. I would argue they could have gotten someone much better than ultimate empty stat Guy that was Love, maybe then it would have been a super team, but hey, it worked out for them, not a super team tho.


They could have gotten someone else but LeGM wanted love lol. I wanted them to just take Embiid. LeBron would have had an insane team but he has no patience and prefers to bleed times dry and then leave.

Embiid didnt have a relatively healthy playoffs until 2019 and even then he was dealing with injuries. What kind of superstar in their prime would wait 4+ years for a player to possibly work out? Cavs went to 4 straight finals and won a ring. Love was a much better choice than Embiid
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#408 » by nikster » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm

WeSkrongDen wrote:
C3H6N6O6 wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
Kyrie missed most of the first half of the season lol. He was coming off knee surgery.

Why does that detail matter but not the injuries during the playoffs this year to stars?


Injuries in the playoffs happen every year. Whether Kyrie was an all star or not that year is irrelevant. He's an all star caliber player just because he didn't play in enough games during the regular season doesn't change that. In fact he's an all nba caliber player. I have no idea why you're bringing up some dumb point about Kyrie not making the all star game because he was hurt the first half of the season.

So we should look at how the players performed in the post season rather than look at some arbitrary accolades....does that mean you take your statement back about 2013 Wade being all star caliber and better than Middleton?
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#409 » by WeSkrongDen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm

nikster wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Team was in win mode and had 2 first overall pick selections who werent part of the timeline. I would argue they could have gotten someone much better than ultimate empty stat Guy that was Love, maybe then it would have been a super team, but hey, it worked out for them, not a super team tho.


They could have gotten someone else but LeGM wanted love lol. I wanted them to just take Embiid. LeBron would have had an insane team but he has no patience and prefers to bleed times dry and then leave.

Embiid didnt have a relatively healthy playoffs until 2019 and even then he was dealing with injuries. What kind of superstar in their prime would wait 4+ years for a player to possibly work out? Cavs went to 4 straight finals and won a ring. Love was a much better choice than Embiid

That's debatable. Could have ultimately have gotten more rings out of taking Embiid. Embiid was ready to contribute 3 years in. Better than Love at that point. So ultimately you got 2 years of Love and then Embiid was the better choice.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#410 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:35 pm

MostValQuitter wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Dude, if Love is part of your big 3, you are not a superteam, whats the matter Love was successful statpadder in Minny, he was bar none by far most overrated player at that time. Irving was the only Lebron teammate reminiscent of star, it was just LeBron, immature Irving and a bunch of role players.


Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


People are forgetting how good Love was in Minny. That Cleveland team was viewed as the prohibitive favorite along with the GSW to win the championship. It was basically a two team league at that point.

People are just inventing trash to defend Lebron whatever I am done with it.


I watched most Minny games because I was Rubio and Pekovic fan, and Love wasnt that great. For a guy putting 24/15 he was as not that great as humanly possible, I thought many times Rubio was most impactful player of that team, I remember reading their fans debates when Rubio was a rookie, and many debated who was their best player already. I mean most said it was Love, because it was just seemed crazy to question those numbers, no one wanted to admit king is naked with Love, and its only the people who didnt watch the games thought Love was amazing, because his numbers were amazing.
But if you pick one guy in history who is far more impactful than his numbers, Rubio is up there. And if you pick one guy who is far less impactful than his numbers, to me, Minnies Love is easily number one guy I have ever seen. Dude had good teammates the whole run with Minny, never made playoffs once.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#411 » by WeSkrongDen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:37 pm

nikster wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
C3H6N6O6 wrote:Why does that detail matter but not the injuries during the playoffs this year to stars?


Injuries in the playoffs happen every year. Whether Kyrie was an all star or not that year is irrelevant. He's an all star caliber player just because he didn't play in enough games during the regular season doesn't change that. In fact he's an all nba caliber player. I have no idea why you're bringing up some dumb point about Kyrie not making the all star game because he was hurt the first half of the season.

So we should look at how the players performed in the post season rather than look at some arbitrary accolades....does that mean you take your statement back about 2013 Wade being all star caliber and better than Middleton?


Post season Wade in 2013 similar Winshares, BPM and VORP as Middleton.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#412 » by kg01 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:42 pm

prime1time wrote:
kg01 wrote:
prime1time wrote:You're entitled to your own opinion, but if he doesn't win another championship his legacy will be undercut. It's the same reason why historically no one will mention the Kawhi Raptors. These kinds of championships are only good for the fan base. Bucks fans should take pride in how their team played. They beat who's in front of them. But if you want to talk about legacy I and many other fans will distinguish between championships when major competition is injured and championships when major competition is healthy. If MJ went down in game 1 and the Jazz beat the Bulls that wouldn't make the Jazz better than the Bulls lol.


The Kawhi Raptors aren't "lesser" champions. They just didn't win again. Which, wasn't because of anything other than the fact that the team broke up. It doesn't besmirch their title at all.

And what is this, "these kinds of 'ships are only good for the fan base" stuff? Are folks only supposed to like it when "popular" teams win? What kind of defeatist thinking is that? Sorry, we're not all gonna just be (insert flavor of the month) fans because casual fans would like that more.

And on the Bulls/Jazz, this is sports. The results matter more than the opinions.

If the Jazz had beat the Bulls, they're the better team. That's how it works.

Do people want the old college football system where they just put the teams they like in title games regardless of actual results? How silly is that?

So Raptors are better than the KD/Steph/Klay Warriors? So by that logic those Raptors are one of the best teams in the history of the NBA? And so are these Bucks. Correct? Lol. I get it, you have to defend your team. I respect it.


Nobody said that. But if a team is "one of the best in the history of the NBA" they've gotta finish the drill?

Defend "my" team? Who's my team? When you try to denigrate the poster, it gives the impression that you don't actually believe what you're saying.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#413 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:47 pm

eagereyez wrote:
kg01 wrote:
prime1time wrote:The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.


Prove it.

The Nets took the Bucks to 7 with a hobbled Harden playing at 25% and no Kyrie. It's clear to everyone with a brain that they would have won with a healthy roster. And of course it's a Raptors fan defending an injury ring. :roll:


:roll: Maybe you missed his point so I'll say it again... prove it. Maybe something beyond your biased and myopic opinion. But... you can't. which was the point... which you missed completely.

And I'm pretty sure that's a Hawks logo under that posters name.... so your point looks even more lame.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#414 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:52 pm

prime1time wrote:Why can't people just celebrate Giannis and the Bucks. Why use this as an opportunity to tear down other stars?


I have not a single clue beside who they are as people.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#415 » by LesGrossman » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:54 pm

Bornstellar wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:
This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

:lol: the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.


No, I don't. LeBron was never going to make Mo Williams into a championship level player. And no, I don't think Duncan MADE Tony Parker into anything, nor do I think he made Manu into a better player either. They improved because they had the drive and the talent. Manu was already an international superstar before he came to SA. Sure, them growing and playing together was part of it, but let's not act like TP/Manu are only good players because Tim Duncan made them into good players.

So basically a player trying to put himself in a position to win rings is bad, but a GM doing it is good. Y'all are ridiculous on how you want titles to not be "bought" or whatever, and this is coming from a Spurs fans. Y'all are just mad that a player took his destiny into his own hands rather than letting some dude in a suit do it for him. And then you all sit here on RealGM claiming X player sucks because he didn't win a ring or didn't win multiple rings or whatever, and you wonder why players feel the need to dictate their own futures? Lmao

Again, your post ignores context. Not everything is black and white. Wade won a title with Shaq in 2006. LeBron joined him 5 years later after he already started having issues and he declined swiftly after 2012. And sorry, but no, Bosh was never a "superstar" player, ever

Why is it so hard to understand that a league is designed to work a certain way, and finding loopholes around it is destroying the integrity? Its like a micro society. Yes the league was designed so GM's make trades. Theres a draft and a cap and exceptions and all that stuff. Its not the only way a league could be designed. In europe for example there is no draft, but if you tank you fall out of the league and another team gets your spot.

The NBA was not meant for players to make deals like that. Its not a good thing. Players under valid contract force their way out; imagine that happening in real life. And those guys are making millions and millions and only want out because they try to avoid the sportive competition - the reason they are there in first place. Dont act like this is some sort of modern slavery. The league does not exist for LeBron, LeBron exists because of the league. If there was no NBA he might be stacking boxes or flipping burgers. Maybe some respect for the system, and the sport, is in order. This is a sports league and teams are meant to compete. There are 30 teams and the best competition would happen if the talent was evenly spread. "Player empowerment" ruins this. Its just pathetic to try and paint this as heroic players vs. greedy owners.

Otherwise, i vividly remember every year of the heatles. Wade was a beast. He won a ton of games for them. And saying Chris Bosh was "never a superstar" is just beyond debateable. He was a 10 year all star and clear cut franchise player of the Raptors which is why lebron recruited him. You acting like he was some kind of role player and Wade was washed makes your whole post seem very agenda driven.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#416 » by SF_Warriors » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:57 pm

MostValQuitter wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Dude, if Love is part of your big 3, you are not a superteam, whats the matter Love was successful statpadder in Minny, he was bar none by far most overrated player at that time. Irving was the only Lebron teammate reminiscent of star, it was just LeBron, immature Irving and a bunch of role players.


Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


People are forgetting how good Love was in Minny. That Cleveland team was viewed as the prohibitive favorite along with the GSW to win the championship. It was basically a two team league at that point.

People are just inventing trash to defend Lebron whatever I am done with it.


Love was all nba 2nd team twice and a 3x all star by age 25, having just averaged 26ppg before joining the cavs.. Having someone like that as a third option in his prime with two other better perennial all star level talents would constitute a super team. Just because him and say chris bosh's stats suffered playing as third options doesnt make them any less talented.

Ray allen averaged 17ppg for the 07/08 celts, I guess they werent a super team? That's the same exact kind of ridiculous mindset people have when trying to convince themselves bron wasnt on superteams. Heck, not even one of KG, Pierce, Allen averaged 20ppg that year, yet they were considered one of the first modern superteams.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#417 » by Infinite Llamas » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:59 pm

GIMME_DATT wrote:he won without a super team

Don't see it everyday


Somehow, if Chris Paul had won, I doubt you’d see these endless topics of praise...

Yes, he won without a super team, but he also didn’t beat a super team. So what’s the big deal, really?
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#418 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:02 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:
Yes, he won without a super team, but he also didn’t beat a super team. So what’s the big deal, really?


You really need to take a break from posting for a while.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#419 » by prime1time » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:02 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
eagereyez wrote:
kg01 wrote:
Prove it.

The Nets took the Bucks to 7 with a hobbled Harden playing at 25% and no Kyrie. It's clear to everyone with a brain that they would have won with a healthy roster. And of course it's a Raptors fan defending an injury ring. :roll:


:roll: Maybe you missed his point so I'll say it again... prove it. Maybe something beyond your biased and myopic opinion. But... you can't. which was the point... which you missed completely.

And I'm pretty sure that's a Hawks logo under that posters name.... so your point looks even more lame.

Lol, I don't have to prove anything. He's entitled to his opinion. You can continue with the ad hominem attacks but it doesn't change anything. If the goal is to achieve a consensus about Giannis' greatness, Giannis has a lot more work to do. Obviously, some people might already believe that this championship validates him, but then the question becomes one of logical consistency. If you're going to hold Giannis to this watered-down standard, how do you now evaluate players that have done more? As long as you're going to hold everyone to the same standard and not engage in hypocrisy I couldn't care less. I've talked about context with championships before GIannis and I'll talk about it after him. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine.
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Re: Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic 

Post#420 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:05 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
MostValQuitter wrote:
WeSkrongDen wrote:
Immature Irving was a certified beast. And LeGM was the one who wanted Love lol. He wanted another super team.


People are forgetting how good Love was in Minny. That Cleveland team was viewed as the prohibitive favorite along with the GSW to win the championship. It was basically a two team league at that point.

People are just inventing trash to defend Lebron whatever I am done with it.


Love was all nba 2nd team twice and a 3x all star by age 25, having just averaged 26ppg before joining the cavs.. Having someone like that as a third option with two other better perennial all star level talents would constitute a super team. Just because him and say chris bosh's stats suffered playing as third options doesnt make them any less talented.

Ray allen averaged 17ppg for the 07/08 celts, I guess they werent a super team? That's the same exact kind of ridiculous mindset people have when trying to convince themselves bron wasnt on superteams.


Bosh was better than Love, Ray Alllen was better than Love, give me a break, Love seem to be still one of the most overrated players ever, how is that still a thing after seeing him not in stuff stat minny system, I dont usually like the term, but the guy should have his own picture in the dictionary next to ''empty stats player'', dude just wasnt that great at all.
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