HOF chances for Khris Middleton

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Do you see Khris being inducted?

He's really far from that
73
36%
Needs another championship as a key player
20
10%
Needs another championship and a few more All-Star/All-NBA
50
25%
Just needs a few more All-Star/All-NBA
60
30%
 
Total votes: 203

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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#81 » by justin12140 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:16 pm

Right now he has no shot. Derrick Rose’s resume is way better and most think he’s not getting in the hall / borderline at best.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#82 » by DroseReturnChi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:19 pm

justin12140 wrote:Right now he has no shot. Derrick Rose’s resume is way better and most think he’s not getting in the hall / borderline at best.


exactly. like holy jesus derrick rose an all time talent cant even get in with youngest mvp and scrubs are getting in?
blasphemous man ima cry. life is not fair can you imagine derrick rose also had 0.3% until recent poor guy getting disrespected.
11.9% still are you freaking kidding me when he was the best player on a top 4 team in the knicks? what do you want more from a guy close to retirement after having a collection of mediocre teams post ACL?

im so pissed derrick lost like 2 6MOY to nobodies when he was the clear favorite except his teams sucked. He needs to be more selfish and take 20 shots as 6th men. Middleton/holiday these guys wont even be known after 10 yrs. To casual fans/ americans like they gonna act like who the heck is this guy.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#83 » by The_Hater » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:21 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:big fat 0 to 0.1%. he needs to carry the team and get at least all nba, dpoy, fmvp.


The hall of fame is chalk full of players who were the 2nd or 3rd best players, and all stars, on contenders/champions. Carrying a team isn’t a HOF requirement.

But only 2 all star games and 16.8 ppg career average leave him miles away anyways.


yeah and guess what theres championships every yr. no ones going to nominate random 2/3rd options which can amount to hundreds after several decades. Even giannis wasnt considered a true number 1 and more of number 2. These scrubs are usual championship 3rd/4th and im being very generous. HOF belongs to mvp level players who havent won anything and even there will be a lot of those guys considering Jokic got one and embiid too likely.


That might be your opinion, but the HOF line had been drawn much lower than that bar. So that’s all I go on in these discussions. For example very few people on this board view Aldridge as a HOFer but I’d bet a lot of money that he gets in.

And it’s not even that the HOF has been watered down lately, it’s much tougher to get in right now then it was in the 1970’s when they put far too many middling players from the 50’s and 60’s into the hall.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#84 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:22 pm

SOA wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
SOA wrote:
Every year 60 new players are drafted in the NBA. The number that has played in the NBA is a lot larger than you think. Now, the list that have a 5+ year career is a shorter list.


I've got 3952 players from 47 till 2015. Who am I missing? It's possible there's a minute filter or something but I don't THINK that data set has one as I've done team analysis with that data and it's matched back to data sets in basketball reference.

And 60 guys might get drafted but play? Maybe 50 play but there weren't 30 teams for the majority of NBA history.


According to a Reddit user, as of 2020, there has been roughly 4500 that have played in the NBA. But I am not sure if that is taking into account guys who are 10 days who never officially got into a game. That might push it to 5k, not around 20k like I thought. Even with only 5 k though…..

That means that the basketball hall of fame has inducted 4% of people that have played in the NBA. And that’s not even including the European leagues as well.


5k seems reasonable give I'm missing 6 seasons, but that also means of the 5k at LEAST 1500 aren't eligible for the hall of fame yet.

And it can take upwards of 30-40 years for a player to get into the hall.

Here are 36 players who have at least a 35% change who aren't in right now. And this list doesn't have guys who very well might make it like Gobert, Donic, Booker, KAT, Zion....etc. So we're easily looking at no less than 40 and possibly a lot more of the active or recently retired guys are all going to get in. Now we're nearing 5% or about 1 in 20 players. That's a lot!

Spoiler:
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Dwight Howard
Anthony Davis
Carmelo Anthony
Vince Carter
Larry Foust
Tony Parker
Pau Gasol
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Chauncey Billups
Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Tim Hardaway
Kawhi Leonard
Shawn Marion
Kevin Love
Amar'e Stoudemire
Larry Costello
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Rajon Rondo
Blake Griffin
Klay Thompson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Joe Johnson
Lou Hudson
Jimmy Butler
Shawn Kemp
Draymond Green
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#85 » by BmanInBigD » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:55 pm

Oh hell no. He's basically Micheal Finley that got to play with an all-time great, both in their primes. Neither he nor KM could be the best player on anything remotely resembling a contending team. If he gets in on basically what he's done so far, they should call it the Hall of Pretty Good and Above.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#86 » by SOA » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:13 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
SOA wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I've got 3952 players from 47 till 2015. Who am I missing? It's possible there's a minute filter or something but I don't THINK that data set has one as I've done team analysis with that data and it's matched back to data sets in basketball reference.

And 60 guys might get drafted but play? Maybe 50 play but there weren't 30 teams for the majority of NBA history.


According to a Reddit user, as of 2020, there has been roughly 4500 that have played in the NBA. But I am not sure if that is taking into account guys who are 10 days who never officially got into a game. That might push it to 5k, not around 20k like I thought. Even with only 5 k though…..

That means that the basketball hall of fame has inducted 4% of people that have played in the NBA. And that’s not even including the European leagues as well.


5k seems reasonable give I'm missing 6 seasons, but that also means of the 5k at LEAST 1500 aren't eligible for the hall of fame yet.

And it can take upwards of 30-40 years for a player to get into the hall.

Here are 36 players who have at least a 35% change who aren't in right now. And this list doesn't have guys who very well might make it like Gobert, Donic, Booker, KAT, Zion....etc. So we're easily looking at no less than 40 and possibly a lot more of the active or recently retired guys are all going to get in. Now we're nearing 5% or about 1 in 20 players. That's a lot!

Spoiler:
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Dwight Howard
Anthony Davis
Carmelo Anthony
Vince Carter
Larry Foust
Tony Parker
Pau Gasol
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Chauncey Billups
Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Tim Hardaway
Kawhi Leonard
Shawn Marion
Kevin Love
Amar'e Stoudemire
Larry Costello
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Rajon Rondo
Blake Griffin
Klay Thompson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Joe Johnson
Lou Hudson
Jimmy Butler
Shawn Kemp
Draymond Green


Not really. By the time they are eligible, hundreds to thousands will have played in the NBA. The more time passes, the less number (by percentage) of NBAers make the hall. Back when there were only 8 teams…. Now there are 30…. And the NBA will probably add two more teams before this decade is over.

And it is the basketball hall anyway….. so even if it is 5% of NBAers, throw in all the other basketball leagues and the basketball hall is pretty exclusive. Much more exclusive than people realize.

200 basketball players are in the hall. Out of nearly 80 years of basketball in all the professional leagues across the globe.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#87 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:37 pm

SOA wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
SOA wrote:
According to a Reddit user, as of 2020, there has been roughly 4500 that have played in the NBA. But I am not sure if that is taking into account guys who are 10 days who never officially got into a game. That might push it to 5k, not around 20k like I thought. Even with only 5 k though…..

That means that the basketball hall of fame has inducted 4% of people that have played in the NBA. And that’s not even including the European leagues as well.


5k seems reasonable give I'm missing 6 seasons, but that also means of the 5k at LEAST 1500 aren't eligible for the hall of fame yet.

And it can take upwards of 30-40 years for a player to get into the hall.

Here are 36 players who have at least a 35% change who aren't in right now. And this list doesn't have guys who very well might make it like Gobert, Donic, Booker, KAT, Zion....etc. So we're easily looking at no less than 40 and possibly a lot more of the active or recently retired guys are all going to get in. Now we're nearing 5% or about 1 in 20 players. That's a lot!

Spoiler:
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Dwight Howard
Anthony Davis
Carmelo Anthony
Vince Carter
Larry Foust
Tony Parker
Pau Gasol
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Chauncey Billups
Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Tim Hardaway
Kawhi Leonard
Shawn Marion
Kevin Love
Amar'e Stoudemire
Larry Costello
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Rajon Rondo
Blake Griffin
Klay Thompson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Joe Johnson
Lou Hudson
Jimmy Butler
Shawn Kemp
Draymond Green


Not really. By the time they are eligible, hundreds to thousands will have played in the NBA. The more time passes, the less number (by percentage) of NBAers make the hall. Back when there were only 8 teams…. Now there are 30…. And the NBA will probably add two more teams before this decade is over.

And it is the basketball hall anyway….. so even if it is 5% of NBAers, throw in all the other basketball leagues and the basketball hall is pretty exclusive. Much more exclusive than people realize.

200 basketball players are in the hall. Out of nearly 80 years of basketball in all the professional leagues across the globe.


The point I'm getting at is the hall is based on retired players, so lumping ineligable and active guys into the your count inaccurately represents how difficult it is to get into.

Yes, getting into the NBA is super exclusive, you're already insanely elite. Making a D1 roster is extremely hard for that matter.

But we're had about 1k players play even 10k nba minutes. Move that number to 20k and it's 400-500 and we're basically saying about 40-50% of them are or will be in the hall.

But let me really drive home context here. Those players above represent nearly 50% of all minutes played in nba history. 500ish players represent roughly half of all minutes played in the history of the game.

So when you come back and tell me about 40% of those guys roughly are in the hall of fame or if you were to randomly turn on an NBA game from any point in time and tuned in at a random part of the game, roughly on average 2 of the guys on the court will be in the hall of fame. That takes the "WOW" out of the hall for most fans because that's effectively what our brains internalize.

I do get your point that it's hard to get into the hall, and every player who got in through the nba was among the best players at some point....but that's not what most people think of when they think of career achievement type award.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#88 » by skones » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:47 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:big fat 0 to 0.1%. he needs to carry the team and get at least all nba, dpoy, fmvp.


The hall of fame is chalk full of players who were the 2nd or 3rd best players, and all stars, on contenders/champions. Carrying a team isn’t a HOF requirement.

But only 2 all star games and 16.8 ppg career average leave him miles away anyways.


yeah and guess what theres championships every yr. no ones going to nominate random 2/3rd options which can amount to hundreds after several decades. Even giannis wasnt considered a true number 1 and more of number 2. These scrubs are usual championship 3rd/4th and im being very generous. HOF belongs to mvp level players who havent won anything and even there will be a lot of those guys considering Jokic got one and embiid too likely.


It's pretty clear those people look very very stupid.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#89 » by SOA » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:51 pm

And to top of the discussion… Kris Middleton will have to get at least 4 more all star selections to get in the hall.

Shawn Marion is a 4 time all star, ring etc, much more accomplished stats and isn’t getting in…..

Rasheed Wallace is a 4 time all star, ring, etc much more accomplished stats and isn’t getting in….

It’s effin laughable to even pose this question about Middleton with his career at this point.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#90 » by skones » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:02 pm

Anyway, the Bucks need one more title for him to even be considered. Two more would make him a shoe in. I think Giannis eventually gets another ring, I just don't think it's with Middleton as the two as he'll have already been retired.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#91 » by Johnny Tomala » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:04 pm

No way. He isn't good enough to be HOF.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#92 » by NyKnicks1714 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:17 pm

SOA wrote:And to top of the discussion… Kris Middleton will have to get at least 4 more all star selections to get in the hall.

Shawn Marion is a 4 time all star, ring etc, much more accomplished stats and isn’t getting in…..

Rasheed Wallace is a 4 time all star, ring, etc much more accomplished stats and isn’t getting in….

It’s effin laughable to even pose this question about Middleton with his career at this point.


Three more would give him a decent chance. More 5-time All-stars are HOFers than not.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#93 » by DrCoach » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:23 am

A good question which HOF player does his game resemble
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#94 » by righterwriter » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:09 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
righterwriter wrote:
Winsome Gerbil wrote:
..and was a 6x All Star, 3x All-NBA, 5x All Defense, and considered one of the best defensive players of his era?

Again, Middleton needs a LOT more to get in any serious conversation. There was not one person n the world who even remotely had him on a HOF radar 3 weeks ago, and scoring 1 more point than Bobby Portis while watching an all timer dump in 50 in a deciding Game 6 isn't going to come anywhere close to making up that ground. You can make arguments for half a dozen other SGs in the league being able to notch a chip as Giannis's wingman this year (doesn't mean they would have, but certainly have the talent). Being a distant second fiddle is just not that big a HOF calling card unless you can really sustain it year after year and rack up lower tier accolades.



Does Isiah Thomas (the Celtics version) get more HOF credit because he made All-NBA and two all-star games?
How about Kemba Walker, who put up big stats on bad teams to earn his All-NBA and four all-star teams?


Yes...the hall voters are very obvious and clear in for example Tmac making it as a first ballot hall guy that these absolutely 100% without question or debate are more valuable.


Wait, you have proof of HOF voters saying that its essential to be All-NBA to make the HOF? Can yo share the link, please?
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#95 » by AussieBuck » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:16 am

He's got the kind of game where he could have a long late prime, maybe get a couple of 3rd team honours and should get more all star coaches votes now he's got a ring. Another title as a top 3 guy on the team and say 5 all stars and a couple of all NBA teams and he'll likely get in eventually. Balance of probabilities I guess he's a chance but far from a favourite.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#96 » by IAMZOOTED2 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:37 am

skones wrote:
IAMZOOTED2 wrote:
skones wrote:
There isn't a case to be made that the ball should have been in Jrue's hands. I just don't think you watched many of the Bucks playoff games. Middleton hit shot after shot after shot in HUGE moments throughout the championship run. He'd wholly earned the ball.


I disagree, but that's cool. Are you saying then, that you consider the Bucks' pecking order to be Giannis, Khris, and then Jrue?


I don't consider it to be. It is, and you're wrong. Like I said. I don't think you watched. Middleton torched Miami. Then in a rough Brooklyn series on the road, he gutted them at home. Then he single handedly won us the Atlanta series with multiple flamethrowing outbursts. Particularly his dominance in games 3 and 6. Then he became one of 25 players or so in NBA history to score 40 in a finals game in a very tight game 4 to fully grab momentum back from Phoenix. This stuff isn't up for debate or disagreement. This stuff happened. Anyone who thinks Jrue deserved to have the ball in his hands after all of that? As I said, they're wrong.


If you compare their careers, they're damn-near neck and neck in most categories. Jrue has been better at some things; Khris better in others, but let's not act Jrue's numbers wouldn't be closer or even surpass what Middleton produces if it was him playing off ball or doing what Khris does. And on the other side of the court... well, obviously they're not close at AT ALL. Don't let recency bias or a couple of bad games for jrue/ good games for khris sway you here.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#97 » by skones » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:59 am

IAMZOOTED2 wrote:
skones wrote:
IAMZOOTED2 wrote:
I disagree, but that's cool. Are you saying then, that you consider the Bucks' pecking order to be Giannis, Khris, and then Jrue?


I don't consider it to be. It is, and you're wrong. Like I said. I don't think you watched. Middleton torched Miami. Then in a rough Brooklyn series on the road, he gutted them at home. Then he single handedly won us the Atlanta series with multiple flamethrowing outbursts. Particularly his dominance in games 3 and 6. Then he became one of 25 players or so in NBA history to score 40 in a finals game in a very tight game 4 to fully grab momentum back from Phoenix. This stuff isn't up for debate or disagreement. This stuff happened. Anyone who thinks Jrue deserved to have the ball in his hands after all of that? As I said, they're wrong.


If you compare their careers, they're damn-near neck and neck in most categories. Jrue has been better at some things; Khris better in others, but let's not act Jrue's numbers wouldn't be closer or even surpass what Middleton produces if it was him playing off ball or doing what Khris does. And on the other side of the court... well, obviously they're not close at AT ALL. Don't let recency bias or a couple of bad games for jrue/ good games for khris sway you here.


Well now you're moving goalposts and then making arguments that don't make sense. Jrue's numbers wouldn't be closer or surpass what Middleton produces off ball because Jrue Holiday isn't the elite shooter all over the court that Khris Middleton is. Middleton has LONG earned his 2nd banana status on this team, and Jrue coming in doesn't change that. Khris Middleton's performance throughout the playoffs slammed the door shut on any argument Holiday may have had.

It's comical that you'd accuse me of recency bias here given I've been watching Middleton grow into a role in Milwaukee nearly every game for 8 seasons. You're just entirely ill-informed, you're well aware of it, and you're doubling down. That's why, like I said, you're moving goalposts. Bringing up defense when discussing who should have the ball in their hands? What are you talking about?
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#98 » by AussieBuck » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:06 am

DrCoach wrote:A good question which HOF player does his game resemble

very late prime Paul Pierce.
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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#99 » by skones » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:09 am

AussieBuck wrote:
DrCoach wrote:A good question which HOF player does his game resemble

very late prime Paul Pierce.


It's ISO Joe.

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Re: HOF chances for Khris Middleton 

Post#100 » by AussieBuck » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:11 am

skones wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:
DrCoach wrote:A good question which HOF player does his game resemble

very late prime Paul Pierce.


It's ISO Joe.

[youtube]https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html[/youtube]

I like Khris better as an off ball guy though. Also it didn't occur to me that Joe was a HOF player. :lol:
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