Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed

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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#61 » by dockingsched » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:54 pm

Slava wrote:Bruh, this article is referencing the Marc Spears report saying there are talks around the league, which is essentially the ESPN version of "streets talking."

That part made me laugh and stop reading lol. There are talks between who? Journalists talking about made up trade scenarios? Talks throughout Internet forums? What a terribly vague report
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#62 » by danvato » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:55 pm

granger05 wrote:I thought you couldn't package players in a S&T so how would this even work? You'd have to sign Schroder for enough to get close to Westbrook and then send Kuzma and THT out for some made-up future pick? Is the idea in a scenario like this for WAS that you sign Schroder to a one year deal so even if it's way too big for the player, you cut a season of Westbrook's salary? Can you even S&T on a one year deal?

I have logistical questions even beyond value for anybody involved.


I thought so too but i can't find anything to verify:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal + the link to larry coons cba does not mention this restriction.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#63 » by phanman » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:56 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
phanman wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
He signed LeBron and traded a bunch of assets for AD. Any GM could have done that. But sure, next season when LeBron is finding open shooters who continue to brick their threes, you can continue to tout 2020 as evidence of Pelinka's great team-building abilities. The Lakers were a bottom ten 3-point shooting team this season, and they seem poised to get worse. That is not what you want around LeBron, who might be the actual GOAT at getting the ball to shooters.

Right let's conveniently forget that they he also formed an incredible supporting cast with Danny, Morris, Dwight, and Rondo with the latter 3 on minimum contracts.

This season was bad with them letting go of so many key FA's but it just didn't work out with their new bigs, Kuzma failing to take the necessary step forward off his chip, and Schroeder struggling to be an improvement over Rondo.


I don't even care if people want to give him credit for putting together a great championship team. Go for it. The point is that since then he's been awful, and lack of intent on improving the shooting situation is more evidence of that.

Marc is actually a 3pt shooter vs Dwight/McGee, Schroeder just came off a great season in OKC where he shot a career 38.5% on 5 3PA they brought in Wes Matthews who is a career 37.9%3pt shoot on 5.4 3PA and then Morris returned.

So tell me, where did Pelinka go wrong?
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#64 » by brooklynbrawler » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:58 pm

NBA Central is a horrendous source, they make rumors out of off-hand comments by journalists
Please........... no more
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#65 » by Freighttrain » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:00 pm

I don't mind it for Schröder or Kuzma at this point, but adding THT feels too much. I do think Westbrook can win you games in the regular season alone, especially with AD so LeBron can load manage in the regular season, so I'm not as down on this trade as other Lakers on here seem to be.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#66 » by Best2EverDoIt » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:01 pm

NO!!!!!! No. I want to be able to continue to root for Russ and I won't be able to if he's a Laker. Lakers fans don't even deserve him. Acting like they don't want him. He's would be the best point guard your team has had this century.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#67 » by NyKnicks1714 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:04 pm

phanman wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
phanman wrote:Right let's conveniently forget that they he also formed an incredible supporting cast with Danny, Morris, Dwight, and Rondo with the latter 3 on minimum contracts.

This season was bad with them letting go of so many key FA's but it just didn't work out with their new bigs, Kuzma failing to take the necessary step forward off his chip, and Schroeder struggling to be an improvement over Rondo.


I don't even care if people want to give him credit for putting together a great championship team. Go for it. The point is that since then he's been awful, and lack of intent on improving the shooting situation is more evidence of that.

Marc is actually a 3pt shooter vs Dwight/McGee, Schroeder just came off a great season in OKC where he shot a career 38.5% on 5 3PA they brought in Wes Matthews who is a career 37.9%3pt shoot on 5.4 3PA and then Morris returned.

So tell me, where did Pelinka go wrong?


Schroder is mediocre for his career, he had one anomalous season from the 3-point line. Gasol and Wes Matthews were/are done, and never going to give you enough minutes to be consistently impactful in terms of shooting and spacing. They were band-aids on the shooting (pun intended?) bullet hole.

What he needs to do is make this his primary focus. Yes, it's important to have a playmaker when LeBron is on the bench, no question, but 21st in %, 25th in makes is just not going to get it done in today's NBA, especially on a LeBron-led team. I mentioned it elsewhere, but CJ McCollum should be a target. Duncan Robinson should be a target. Not Russell Westbrook.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#68 » by DaddyCool19 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:04 pm

If you would ask me to list 3 above average PG's who would fit worst with Lebron, Russell would make that list.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#69 » by Dupp » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:10 pm

Pelinka is so lucky lebron happened to want to play in LA because he is a horrible gm.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#70 » by Madhouse » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:11 pm

Westbrook is declining and is not a fit.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#71 » by John Murdoch » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:13 pm

Egg Nog wrote:Can LeBron and AD can do the unthinkable and get Westbrook to chance his playstyle?

Def not. He is who he is
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#72 » by granger05 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:14 pm

danvato wrote:
granger05 wrote:I thought you couldn't package players in a S&T so how would this even work? You'd have to sign Schroder for enough to get close to Westbrook and then send Kuzma and THT out for some made-up future pick? Is the idea in a scenario like this for WAS that you sign Schroder to a one year deal so even if it's way too big for the player, you cut a season of Westbrook's salary? Can you even S&T on a one year deal?

I have logistical questions even beyond value for anybody involved.


I thought so too but i can't find anything to verify:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal + the link to larry coons cba does not mention this restriction.


I found THIS which implies they can be combined in a discussion around Davis Bertans last year:

Salaries in a trade package can be combined and therefore aggregated in a sign-and-trade just like regular multiplayer trades.


It answers my other question too, the contract must be 3-4 years long, but on the first year has to be guaranteed so maybe you sign Schroder for a huge one year pay day with small/no guarantees in the following years. I think they changed the rules around how contracts like that can be traded, but this may create a useful piece for WAS as well since they'd have a giant salary they could send out later that the receiving team could just cut.

So, I guess if WAS just wants to get off of Westbrook's contract maybe this makes sense as a way to do that.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#73 » by giberish » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:17 pm

danvato wrote:
granger05 wrote:I thought you couldn't package players in a S&T so how would this even work? You'd have to sign Schroder for enough to get close to Westbrook and then send Kuzma and THT out for some made-up future pick? Is the idea in a scenario like this for WAS that you sign Schroder to a one year deal so even if it's way too big for the player, you cut a season of Westbrook's salary? Can you even S&T on a one year deal?

I have logistical questions even beyond value for anybody involved.


I thought so too but i can't find anything to verify:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal + the link to larry coons cba does not mention this restriction.


You can't package player(s) with a TPE to match one bigger salary.

You absolutely can match a bigger salary with a combination of a S&T player and other players. This has always been allowed despite many people (for some reason) thinking otherwise.

In a S&T deal the contract must be for at least 3 years, however only the first year needs to be guaranteed, so Washington could give Schroeder a large 3-year deal with the 2nd and 3rd unguaranteed - effectively a 1-year deal.

There's still the big complication of getting Schroeder to agree to a contract with Washington that they both want.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#74 » by SF_Warriors » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:17 pm

IgorK wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
IgorK wrote:
AD shot 38% (above league average) from 3 when it mattered (2020 ring year) and LeBron shoots 37% (above league average) in the playoffs. Take a seat please.


Oh shut up :lol:

tHeY maDe iT wHeN it mAttErEd

They're not good 3 pt shooters. Get a grip


Except, they are. GeT a GriP dUdE.


AD's RS career high in 3 point percentage is 34% on 2 attempts. His second highest was last season 33% on 3.5 attempts. Last year in the playoffs, he was 38% but only on 2.9 attempts in 36.6 mpg. So no, AD is not a proficient three point shooter. Bron is not the greatest three point shooter but he definitely needs to be respected out there. AD not so much unless he is wide open.. if you put a hand up he's not going to shoot it from distance. With that said, AD is still a very good mid range shooter and he spreads the floor that way.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#75 » by Pythagoras » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:20 pm

Best2EverDoIt wrote:NO!!!!!! No. I want to be able to continue to root for Russ and I won't be able to if he's a Laker. Lakers fans don't even deserve him. Acting like they don't want him. He's would be the best point guard your team has had this century.


The issue with Westbrook is a combination of the insane amount of money he’s owed and not being a good fit with Lebron.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#76 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:22 pm

Westbrook makes perfect sense if a deal can be reached. Lebron will greatly benefit.

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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#77 » by phanman » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:23 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
phanman wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
I don't even care if people want to give him credit for putting together a great championship team. Go for it. The point is that since then he's been awful, and lack of intent on improving the shooting situation is more evidence of that.

Marc is actually a 3pt shooter vs Dwight/McGee, Schroeder just came off a great season in OKC where he shot a career 38.5% on 5 3PA they brought in Wes Matthews who is a career 37.9%3pt shoot on 5.4 3PA and then Morris returned.

So tell me, where did Pelinka go wrong?


Schroder is mediocre for his career, he had one anomalous season from the 3-point line. Gasol and Wes Matthews were/are done, and never going to give you enough minutes to be consistently impactful in terms of shooting and spacing. They were band-aids on the shooting (pun intended?) bullet hole.

What he needs to do is make this his primary focus. Yes, it's important to have a playmaker when LeBron is on the bench, no question, but 21st in %, 25th in makes is just not going to get it done in today's NBA, especially on a LeBron-led team. I mentioned it elsewhere, but CJ McCollum should be a target. Duncan Robinson should be a target. Not Russell Westbrook.

This season was clearly a disappointment overall but those 3pt makes/percentages were clearly impacted by Bron missing 27 games and AD missing literally half the season with 36 games.

You have to realize that the Lakers are/were operating as a team over the cap. There are only so many players/moves they can make. Schroeder had an breakout season but at the time he was a clear upgrade over Danny who struggled mightily with his shot in the PO. They don't have the assets to bring in CJ nor the money to bring in Duncan. It's easy to say they should go for player X but you have to look at the bare cupboard of assets and realize a guy like is Westbrook is more realistic with what they have currently.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#78 » by Pythagoras » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:23 pm

giberish wrote:
danvato wrote:
granger05 wrote:I thought you couldn't package players in a S&T so how would this even work? You'd have to sign Schroder for enough to get close to Westbrook and then send Kuzma and THT out for some made-up future pick? Is the idea in a scenario like this for WAS that you sign Schroder to a one year deal so even if it's way too big for the player, you cut a season of Westbrook's salary? Can you even S&T on a one year deal?

I have logistical questions even beyond value for anybody involved.


I thought so too but i can't find anything to verify:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal + the link to larry coons cba does not mention this restriction.


You can't package player(s) with a TPE to match one bigger salary.

You absolutely can match a bigger salary with a combination of a S&T player and other players. This has always been allowed despite many people (for some reason) thinking otherwise.

In a S&T deal the contract must be for at least 3 years, however only the first year needs to be guaranteed, so Washington could give Schroeder a large 3-year deal with the 2nd and 3rd unguaranteed - effectively a 1-year deal.

There's still the big complication of getting Schroeder to agree to a contract with Washington that they both want.


granger05 wrote:
danvato wrote:
granger05 wrote:I thought you couldn't package players in a S&T so how would this even work? You'd have to sign Schroder for enough to get close to Westbrook and then send Kuzma and THT out for some made-up future pick? Is the idea in a scenario like this for WAS that you sign Schroder to a one year deal so even if it's way too big for the player, you cut a season of Westbrook's salary? Can you even S&T on a one year deal?

I have logistical questions even beyond value for anybody involved.


I thought so too but i can't find anything to verify:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal + the link to larry coons cba does not mention this restriction.


I found THIS which implies they can be combined in a discussion around Davis Bertans last year:

Salaries in a trade package can be combined and therefore aggregated in a sign-and-trade just like regular multiplayer trades.


It answers my other question too, the contract must be 3-4 years long, but on the first year has to be guaranteed so maybe you sign Schroder for a huge one year pay day with small/no guarantees in the following years. I think they changed the rules around how contracts like that can be traded, but this may create a useful piece for WAS as well since they'd have a giant salary they could send out later that the receiving team could just cut.

So, I guess if WAS just wants to get off of Westbrook's contract maybe this makes sense as a way to do that.


Thanks guys for educating me. So many people have repeated the “you can’t combine sign and trade players” line this offseason that I just took it as gospel without really checking.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#79 » by othawhitemeat » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:25 pm

This is stupid. Why would THT and Schroeder agree to this? Can't they just go wherever they essentially want to either sign as a RFA for THT or UFA for Schroeder. Sick of the Lakers/Lebron needing to have more superteam power instead of just finding a way to make. It's like they need 15 all stars to win a chip.
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Re: Framework of Kuzma, THT and Schroeder for Westbrook being discussed 

Post#80 » by Up-And-Coming » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:26 pm

mademan wrote:Wiz should take it and run as fast as they can. LOLakers tho. Does their FO not believe in spacing?


I don’t think I believe this. Who’s the source???

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