Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now?

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who do you rank higher all time?

Poll runs till Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:14 pm

Giannis
55
35%
KD
104
65%
 
Total votes: 159

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Harry Garris
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#41 » by Harry Garris » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:32 pm

SecondTake wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:
ANTETOKOUNBROS wrote:
This was arguably the single best chip in the last 20 years -- the journey matters if we are talking legacies. Otherwise, we would be talking Kostas Antetokounmpo > Giannis before this year.


Yeah that's why you don't ignore context. Comparing Giannis's win this year to KD's championships on the Warriors isn't evidence on its own that Giannis is a better player than KD because he had less help winning. The competition you went up against matters and how Giannis and KD performed on the way to those championships matter as well.


Ignoring context would be ignoring KD winning 2 titles on teams where he literally could not lose, and saying it is of the same value as that of other titles. That team won a title without him, and was the best NBA team at 73-9 in history. You're being disingenuous if you ignore context. You dont need to nitpick every title, but I think it's pretty clear that those two titles in GS are not the same as 95% of other titles in history, save the 60s.


I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm saying KDs titles were just as impressive as anyone else's... I'm saying the exact opposite. The thing is though Giannis's title being "harder" than KDs alone does not mean he's a better player than KD.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#42 » by bballfan1three3 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:45 pm

SecondTake wrote:
Optms wrote:KD for his longevity wins easily. His rings are meaningless but Giannis going through Trae Young and Devin freaking Booker isn't exactly a crowning achievement. Another 2 years as an MVP level player and Giannis gets the nod for me.
Giannis literally went through KD too though. Yes Kyrie and Harden were injured, but the bucks don't have anyone like them so that simply evened the series, boiling it down to KD vs Giannis. Good old school basketball.

I admit they didn't go through the toughest road but Giannis had an all time run, and the road they did go through is a lot more impressive than what KD ever went though on GSW. Bucks aren't a superteam so they won fairly even series

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If you think the Nets vs. The Bucks was basically 'Kd vs Giannis' you need to go to an optometrist
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#43 » by The Master » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:52 pm

Recency bias is so strong if 42% of users already voted for Giannis in this one.

Giannis has all the potential to surpass Durant as a player, and I bet he will, considering his individual accolades already and KD wasting lot of prime due to injuries, but they're the same tier as players as for now with Durant having much better longevity due to being 6 years older. It's even more funny considering that they played against each other this year, and it is really hard to argue that Giannis really outplayed KD.

Easily KD, if the question is about now.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#44 » by hongdayuan » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:55 pm

swap KD and Giannis starting game 5 of second round, who wins the chip?
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#45 » by therealbig3 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:14 pm

Kyrie and Harden going down did not “even” the series, wtf?

The next best players on the Bucks were Middleton and Holiday…the next best players on the Nets were…Joe Harris (who couldn’t hit a damn shot), Jeff Green (playing with plantar fasciitis), and Blake Griffin (nothing more than a role player at this point).

Wtf are you talking about? Not to mention guys like Lopez and Tucker arguably being better than anyone on the Nets after KD too. Pat Connaughton was huge too.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#46 » by IgorK » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:17 pm

KD is a considerably greater talent than Giannis. But it's also unfair to compare their body of work considering KD has 6 years on Giannis. You can only make comparisons like this after both players are done playing OR when the younger player already clearly surpassed the older player.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#47 » by Dutchball97 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:18 pm

I think Giannis could pass KD in the future but even that is a big if. Ranking players solely on MVPs and FMVPs is always going to leave a lot to be desired.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#48 » by Profound23 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:27 pm

thebigbird wrote:Neither KD’s rings nor Giannis’s ring are meaningful to me so I vote KD because I think he’s the better player.



Neither are Lebron's
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#49 » by SecondTake » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:32 pm

Harry Garris wrote:
SecondTake wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:
Yeah that's why you don't ignore context. Comparing Giannis's win this year to KD's championships on the Warriors isn't evidence on its own that Giannis is a better player than KD because he had less help winning. The competition you went up against matters and how Giannis and KD performed on the way to those championships matter as well.


Ignoring context would be ignoring KD winning 2 titles on teams where he literally could not lose, and saying it is of the same value as that of other titles. That team won a title without him, and was the best NBA team at 73-9 in history. You're being disingenuous if you ignore context. You dont need to nitpick every title, but I think it's pretty clear that those two titles in GS are not the same as 95% of other titles in history, save the 60s.


I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm saying KDs titles were just as impressive as anyone else's... I'm saying the exact opposite. The thing is though Giannis's title being "harder" than KDs alone does not mean he's a better player than KD.


This thread isnt really about whether Giannis is 'better' than KD though (although I would argue he is when accounting for both sides of the court, but that is neither here nor there). Rather, is Giannis' resume more impressive than KD's?

The all-time lists are usually done comparing resumes. If we were comparing who was better, Shaq would have an agreement for being top 2-3 all-time at his best, but his resume falls a bit short of that.

Giannis has the edge in MVP's and DPOY's. It comes down to titles, and that's where context matters - I would say most people would value the one title of Giannis higher than KD's two.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#50 » by SecondTake » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:33 pm

hongdayuan wrote:swap KD and Giannis starting game 5 of second round, who wins the chip?


No way to tell. Could easily see the Bucks flaming out, but I could also see them winning. Not really as obvious as if you swaped out KD with Giannis on those GS teams.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#51 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:33 pm

Man, when they don't live up to the hype next year.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#52 » by thebigbird » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:35 pm

Profound23 wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Neither KD’s rings nor Giannis’s ring are meaningful to me so I vote KD because I think he’s the better player.



Neither are Lebron's

Okay
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#53 » by Infinite Llamas » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:36 pm

KD finals MVPs are underrated, actually.

I think the media was hellbent on giving Curry his due after the Iggy trophy and KD was just so dominant and spectacular that for two years in a row, the media had no choice but to reward him. People can hate on KD’s decision all they want but I’m still convinced to this day that the Cavs beat the Warriors without KD. We saw it in 2015-16. KD was just that dominant.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#54 » by KyRo23 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:37 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Neither KD’s rings nor Giannis’s ring are meaningful to me so I vote KD because I think he’s the better player.



Neither are Lebron's

Okay


You can't post on these forums right after a team wins a ring. The hot takes and excitement are too much. Aparantly after this ring, Giannis has perhaps the GOAT peak and no one elses rings mean anything.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#55 » by _qubik » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:41 pm

Who cares about accolades so much. KD is a better palyer, the best scorer of his generation.

I get that he isnt the most enjoyable personality while Giannis is a very nice guy for the media, but for me its not even close. KD is the most complete of the two, the best offensive while still being a valuable defender too. Guy has a couple of scoring titles too. Theres no such thing of most valuable title, its always the same.

Giannis won with the team that drafted him, without other superstar, against a good not great team.

KD joined GSW was their best player, earned 2 champioships with them and was an absolute freak against Lebron in 2017.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#56 » by SecondTake » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:44 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Kyrie and Harden going down did not “even” the series, wtf?

The next best players on the Bucks were Middleton and Holiday…the next best players on the Nets were…Joe Harris (who couldn’t hit a damn shot), Jeff Green (playing with plantar fasciitis), and Blake Griffin (nothing more than a role player at this point).

Wtf are you talking about? Not to mention guys like Lopez and Tucker arguably being better than anyone on the Nets after KD too. Pat Connaughton was huge too.


Holiday averaged 15.1 5.4 6.3 on 36% shooting. Middleton was a little better averaging 24.3 8.7 4.3 on a still horrific 40% from the floor. It was pretty even. Holiday and Middleton regularly shat the bed this entire playoff run, save for a few good games by each of them here or there.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#57 » by SecondTake » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:45 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:KD finals MVPs are underrated, actually.

I think the media was hellbent on giving Curry his due after the Iggy trophy and KD was just so dominant and spectacular that for two years in a row, the media had no choice but to reward him. People can hate on KD’s decision all they want but I’m still convinced to this day that the Cavs beat the Warriors without KD. We saw it in 2015-16. KD was just that dominant.


Replace KD with any top 10 wing in the league and GSW still win.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#58 » by SecondTake » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:47 pm

_qubik wrote:Who cares about accolades so much. KD is a better palyer, the best scorer of his generation.

I get that he isnt the most enjoyable personality while Giannis is a very nice guy for the media, but for me its not even close. KD is the most complete of the two, the best offensive while still being a valuable defender too. Guy has a couple of scoring titles too. Theres no such thing of most valuable title, its always the same.

Giannis won with the team that drafted him, without other superstar, against a good not great team.

KD joined GSW was their best player, earned 2 champioships with them and was an absolute freak against Lebron in 2017.


KD's claim to fame is his scoring, yet he has been outscored by Giannis these past 3 years, who is also far more efficient from the floor. Add in the massive gap in rebounding and defense, and you're right it's not that close.
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#59 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:56 pm

hege53190 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
ANTETOKOUNBROS wrote:I respect Giannis' accomplishments more than KD even if KD is still the better offensive closer/shooter--this is the only thing he has on Giannis now though, IMO. Everything else is now perception and reputational arguments for KD and people still getting used to the idea that Giannis' has officially surpassed him in every other important facet of the game.


Yeah thats why Giannis himself said KD was better :lol:


Unlike most of the NBA Giannis is humble. Just because he said it out loud doesn’t mean he believes it. And you shouldn’t either because it is not true.


Why would he lie? He could have just said KD was a great player.

Enough of your conspiracy theories :lol:
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Re: Giannis vs KD: who do you rank higher all time now? 

Post#60 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:56 pm

SecondTake wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
ANTETOKOUNBROS wrote:I respect Giannis' accomplishments more than KD even if KD is still the better offensive closer/shooter--this is the only thing he has on Giannis now though, IMO. Everything else is now perception and reputational arguments for KD and people still getting used to the idea that Giannis' has officially surpassed him in every other important facet of the game.


Yeah thats why Giannis himself said KD was better :lol:


Before he won a ring though. That's a big piece of context you forgot to mention.


2 is better than 1.
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