KD(2012) or Giannis(2021): who had the better playoffs?

[DroseReturnChi]

Giannis, its not even close.

You have to be exaggerating. They faced the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs and Heat. Three actual title teams with talent ahead of the average contender this year (I don't include the Mavs for obvious reasons). The 12 Spurs alone would be a major threat this year. You can have who you have but saying it's not close is wrong.

edit Giannis had the better finals but overall it's not a "not even close" thing. KD was also amazing in the finals.

KD was an ok scorer in the finals, a poor defender, poor leader, and terrible playmaker. He also got to the finals and lost there with far more help than Giannis had - he had a WB that was nearly as good, if not as good, at his peak as Durant, Harden and Ibaka. They were a good matchup for the Heat. Durant did literally nothing besides score at a decent clip. Giannis scored better, and far, far outplayed him in every other area in this finals.

KD padded those stats while surrounded with 3mvps and dpoy level ibaka.
Giannis did it by himself when all the defensive attention is focused on him and played elite defense. His offensive output was not worse either. 30 ppg,5apg absolutely destroys KD too.

[C3H6N6O6]

KD was an ok scorer in the finals, a poor defender, poor leader, and terrible playmaker. He also got to the finals and lost there with far more help than Giannis had - he had a WB that was nearly as good, if not as good, at his peak as Durant, Harden and Ibaka. They were a good matchup for the Heat. Durant did literally nothing besides score at a decent clip. Giannis scored better, and far, far outplayed him in every other area in this finals.

The 2021 Bucks would have been absolutely destroyed by the Heatles.

Westbrick is an anchor and worse in every way than Middleton.

The 2012 Heat, 2012 Spurs, 2012 Lakers were all far better than any team Giannis beat objectively. The level of competition isnt even close.

I dont agree about the heat destroying the bucks.. The heat had trouble against average teams like the Pacers who definitely weren’t better then the bucks …

Heat vs bucks is a good matchup

Bosh was out for majority of the series Vs Pacers and Celtics. 2011 Heat which had worse players absolutely dominated the Celtics.
2012 Heat were the best version of that team as Wade hadn't declined by a huge margin while Heat had some at least okay role players unlike in 2011 when they had absolute garbage outside of the big 3.

[Hello Brooklyn]

KD was an ok scorer in the finals, a poor defender, poor leader, and terrible playmaker. He also got to the finals and lost there with far more help than Giannis had - he had a WB that was nearly as good, if not as good, at his peak as Durant, Harden and Ibaka. They were a good matchup for the Heat. Durant did literally nothing besides score at a decent clip. Giannis scored better, and far, far outplayed him in every other area in this finals.

The 2021 Bucks would have been absolutely destroyed by the Heatles.

Westbrick is an anchor and worse in every way than Middleton.

The 2012 Heat, 2012 Spurs, 2012 Lakers were all far better than any team Giannis beat objectively. The level of competition isnt even close.

I dont agree about the heat destroying the bucks.. The heat had trouble against average teams like the Pacers who definitely weren’t better then the bucks …

Heat vs bucks is a good matchup

Could be remebering wrong but I'm pretty sure Bosh was injured that series.

[No-more-rings]

KD had a great run but this is clearly Giannis, the gap on defense is too big even though KD was better offensively by a not small margin.

[Raps in 4]

Giannis.

[No-more-rings]

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It was a great finals but i wouldn't consider it up there with the few best ever. Within context he faced a Bridges, Crowder and Ayton frontcourt. Imagine if Shaq or prime Kareem went against that lol.

[donnieme]

The 2021 Bucks would have been absolutely destroyed by the Heatles.

Westbrick is an anchor and worse in every way than Middleton.

The 2012 Heat, 2012 Spurs, 2012 Lakers were all far better than any team Giannis beat objectively. The level of competition isnt even close.

I dont agree about the heat destroying the bucks.. The heat had trouble against average teams like the Pacers who definitely weren’t better then the bucks …

Heat vs bucks is a good matchup

Could be remebering wrong but I'm pretty sure Bosh was injured that series.

Yeah think Bosh was out but they still won in 6 games. Losing Bosh allowed Hibbert to camp in the paint and totally messed up Heat's playstyle for a while. Pacers also weren't bad. They held the Heat below 80 points twice in the first 3 games. They stole homecourt then lost 3 straight. They were more of a speedbump than a roadblock.

[TravisScott55]

Lol the guy who won the championship

[Lockdown504090]

its giannis a by a little bit, kd wasnt taking defense seriously at 23.

[PistolPeteJR]

Yeah but we're talking of 2012 not 1980, it wasn't that far ago, the game wasn't that much different. In 2012 spacing was very much an important concept you needed to win. The Heat beat OKC with pace and space because Brooks insisted on playing traditional. Even in 11 the Mavs destroyed the Heat with 3s. 3pt shooting was already a huge ingredient to winning by then. Shooting in general.

I don’t agree. The game in 2012 vs 2021 is significantly different.

Gotta disagree and if you read my statement you'll see why, the contention being about spacing (who would make 12 okc better). You have to take it with what was being replied. The tides had started turning or changing or whatever it is tides do. The Heat guaranteed it but also the Spurs were the leaders in 3pt attempts that playoffs. Spacing was alive but pull up shooting and pnr shooting hadn't taken off. If that's the difference you're thinking off then you're correct. Curry had not yet blown up so the Nba hadn't yet learnt even that was viable.

When you look at how the Heat spread out the floor you can see it's not that different to setups today. The ways 3pts were generated would soon add to this kind of offense and change the game. Then in 15-16 Warriors would go on a campaign to force playoff teams to fully ditch slow frontcourts (among other evolutions).

Watch on YouTube

The key to what you said is "the tides had started turning or changing". Both the intentionality and the volume of long-distance shooting was nowhere near what it has become today.

[ReasonablySober]

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It was a great finals but i wouldn't consider it up there with the few best ever. Within context he faced a Bridges, Crowder and Ayton frontcourt. Imagine if Shaq or prime Kareem went against that lol.

Like when Shaq dominated a Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, and Todd MacCulloch frontline? Or Rik Smits (his final year), Dale Davis, and 38 year old Sam Perkins?

[donnieme]

I don’t agree. The game in 2012 vs 2021 is significantly different.

Gotta disagree and if you read my statement you'll see why, the contention being about spacing (who would make 12 okc better). You have to take it with what was being replied. The tides had started turning or changing or whatever it is tides do. The Heat guaranteed it but also the Spurs were the leaders in 3pt attempts that playoffs. Spacing was alive but pull up shooting and pnr shooting hadn't taken off. If that's the difference you're thinking off then you're correct. Curry had not yet blown up so the Nba hadn't yet learnt even that was viable.

When you look at how the Heat spread out the floor you can see it's not that different to setups today. The ways 3pts were generated would soon add to this kind of offense and change the game. Then in 15-16 Warriors would go on a campaign to force playoff teams to fully ditch slow frontcourts (among other evolutions).

Watch on YouTube

The key to what you said is "the tides had started turning or changing". Both the intentionality and the volume of long-distance shooting was nowhere near what it has become today.

Yeah I know. That's not really what was being disputed. The contention was his original statement that KD's spacing didn't hold as much value to 2012 OKC (he used it to make the point that Giannis would be a better fit than KD to the 12 Thunder). My counter being that spacing was still very important to offenses (despite the lower volume). Spreading out the floor was a valuable tool even in 12 and hence KD was a better fit. The reply can mean something totally different if you don't consider the original statement.

[QingJames]

Giannis didn't guard KD once that entire series. Lets not act like hes Kawhi who takes guys out of series. Thats delusional.

While true, Giannis’ defensive impact for his team this year was significantly better than KD’s in 2012.

Agreed. But KD was doing much more offensively in terms of winning games.

Giannis still relies on Middleton to close for him.

Giannis scored 50 to clinch the title. Durant has never had a comparable closing feat. I don't think you can say Giannis is not a closer.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Giannis scored 50 to clinch the title. Durant has never had a comparable closing feat. I don't think you can say Giannis is not a closer.

I mean KD won two Championships by outplaying LeBron and hit a clutch shot in his face. Thats more impressive than Giannis dominating a habitual playoff choker on an average team.

[QingJames]

Giannis scored 50 to clinch the title. Durant has never had a comparable closing feat. I don't think you can say Giannis is not a closer.

I mean KD won two Championships by outplaying LeBron and hit a clutch shot in his face. Thats more impressive than Giannis dominating a habitual playoff choker on an average team.

No, it isn't impressive when you consider the context of KD playing next to the two GOAT shooters, a DPOY anchor in Green, and facing a Cavs team that was missing Kyrie and Love in 2017 and obviously had no Kyrie in 2018. It's just not impressive, in fact, it's one of the least impressive finals performances by any superstar ever when you consider the context. Obviously not bad by any means, like Lebron in 2011 or whatever, but just not impressive. Imagine any of the all-time greats on that Warriors team instead of Durant - it's not as though they would have performed worse than KD by playing next to the two best shooters to have ever played the game.

Sorry, but nobody really rates KD's final performances as special. What Giannis did in these finals, KD will never approach even if he plays another 10 years.

[Jez2983]

Giannis scored 50 to clinch the title. Durant has never had a comparable closing feat. I don't think you can say Giannis is not a closer.

I mean KD won two Championships by outplaying LeBron and hit a clutch shot in his face. Thats more impressive than Giannis dominating a habitual playoff choker on an average team.

I liked when not good Giannis bullied the amazing KD under the ring and scored on him in OT in away game where everything was on the line. This game is dumb but fun!

[gmoney411]

Yeah but we're talking of 2012 not 1980, it wasn't that far ago, the game wasn't that much different. In 2012 spacing was very much an important concept you needed to win. The Heat beat OKC with pace and space because Brooks insisted on playing traditional. Even in 11 the Mavs destroyed the Heat with 3s. 3pt shooting was already a huge ingredient to winning by then. Shooting in general.

I don’t agree. The game in 2012 vs 2021 is significantly different.

Gotta disagree and if you read my statement you'll see why, the contention being about spacing (who would make 12 okc better). You have to take it with what was being replied. The tides had started turning or changing or whatever it is tides do. The Heat guaranteed it but also the Spurs were the leaders in 3pt attempts that playoffs. Spacing was alive but pull up shooting and pnr shooting hadn't taken off. If that's the difference you're thinking off then you're correct. Curry had not yet blown up so the Nba hadn't yet learnt even that was viable.

When you look at how the Heat spread out the floor you can see it's not that different to setups today. The ways 3pts were generated would soon add to this kind of offense and change the game. Then in 15-16 Warriors would go on a campaign to force playoff teams to fully ditch slow frontcourts (among other evolutions).

Watch on YouTube

I'm not sure what the video is supposed to prove. The Heat get most of their baskets off penetration or the fear of penetration. Giannis out there with Ibaka would make the paint much easier to defend.

[donnieme]

I don’t agree. The game in 2012 vs 2021 is significantly different.

Gotta disagree and if you read my statement you'll see why, the contention being about spacing (who would make 12 okc better). You have to take it with what was being replied. The tides had started turning or changing or whatever it is tides do. The Heat guaranteed it but also the Spurs were the leaders in 3pt attempts that playoffs. Spacing was alive but pull up shooting and pnr shooting hadn't taken off. If that's the difference you're thinking off then you're correct. Curry had not yet blown up so the Nba hadn't yet learnt even that was viable.

When you look at how the Heat spread out the floor you can see it's not that different to setups today. The ways 3pts were generated would soon add to this kind of offense and change the game. Then in 15-16 Warriors would go on a campaign to force playoff teams to fully ditch slow frontcourts (among other evolutions).

[youtube]

I'm not sure what the video is supposed to prove. The Heat get most of their baskets off penetration or the fear of penetration. Giannis out there with Ibaka would make the paint much easier to defend.

So you think Giannis would be a better fit or accomplish more in the 12 Thunder team than KD? You'd take Giannis over KD to play with Westbrook and Harden?

and the video was a sidetangent discussion about the evolution of the game with someone else, explained that much 3 posts up. edit Alright I just realised that someone else was you.

[MavfanAus]

Giannis scored 50 to clinch the title. Durant has never had a comparable closing feat. I don't think you can say Giannis is not a closer.

I mean KD won two Championships by outplaying LeBron and hit a clutch shot in his face. Thats more impressive than Giannis dominating a habitual playoff choker on an average team.

Is that you Kev? Man I swear, every thread here on Durant, you're in here banging on about how KD outperformed Lebron in the finals and his two championships lol. This is either Durant's number one fan, or Kevin himself on one of his burners.

[gmoney411]

Gotta disagree and if you read my statement you'll see why, the contention being about spacing (who would make 12 okc better). You have to take it with what was being replied. The tides had started turning or changing or whatever it is tides do. The Heat guaranteed it but also the Spurs were the leaders in 3pt attempts that playoffs. Spacing was alive but pull up shooting and pnr shooting hadn't taken off. If that's the difference you're thinking off then you're correct. Curry had not yet blown up so the Nba hadn't yet learnt even that was viable.

When you look at how the Heat spread out the floor you can see it's not that different to setups today. The ways 3pts were generated would soon add to this kind of offense and change the game. Then in 15-16 Warriors would go on a campaign to force playoff teams to fully ditch slow frontcourts (among other evolutions).

Watch on YouTube

The key to what you said is "the tides had started turning or changing". Both the intentionality and the volume of long-distance shooting was nowhere near what it has become today.

Yeah I know. That's not really what was being disputed. The contention was his original statement that KD's spacing didn't hold as much value to 2012 OKC (he used it to make the point that Giannis would be a better fit than KD to the 12 Thunder). My counter being that spacing was still very important to offenses (despite the lower volume). Spreading out the floor was a valuable tool even in 12 and hence KD was a better fit. The reply can mean something totally different if you don't consider the original statement.

I never said anything about KD's spacing. I was talking about the Heat not having great shooters and how Giannis's value on defense would be even higher when a team has to rely more on penetration and mid range and can't open up the paint as much. The Thunder would be a worse offensive team but I think the defense would outweigh that.