Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls?

[RHODEY]

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[bwgood77]

I've been asking people who's lineup they like better as well. It's pretty tough. If Kemba is healthy and somewhat near earlier form, I think I slightly prefer him, but I also like Vucevic more than most. It also depends a lot on how much Barrett progresses. The Bulls ball movement should be insane....as Ball, LaVine and DeRozan are all capable of averaging a lot of assists. Ball and DeRozan 7 assists or more and LaVine 5..then Vucevic 4.

I also like Fournier more than most. He went from being a #1 option on offense most of his time in Orlando to a #3 or 4 option and should be a lot more efficient that way and is capable of big scoring nights. Robinson's progression is key too.

Ultimately it's hard to go against the Knicks given the fact Thibs already had them in the playoffs even though the Bulls roster seemed pretty solid.

But I think Donovan with a year under his belt and an improved roster should make them a lot better too.

[Sothron]

The Bulls have the two best players on their team in Lavine and Vuc. This is a pretty close one tbh. The Knicks have really locked into a 5-8 seed and so have the Bulls with this past offseason. I like the Bulls a little more.

[JXL]

Since OP mention better future, the Knicks because they have the flexibility to add more to their core.

Knicks aren't locked to whom they brought back because they're on team-friendly deals (2+1), and going forward, they do have extra 1sts and 2nds to put in trades. Bulls had to move 2 1sts to get Vucevic who while good doesn't move the needle to contention, and another 1st to S&T DeRozan who had a good year, but again doesn't move the needle for contention, even on a Pop-led Spurs team.

Randle took a jump to All-Star under Thibs, made the postseason, and has more room to grow. Barrett made strong strides last season to shoot at 40% from 3, Quickley was a late 1st steal, and Mitch was coming on strong until he broke his foot. If Kemba gets to 75-80% of his health, he's a huge upgrade from the last PG who stole money and minutes.

Bulls had to move picks and tie up most of their cap on Lonzo (who I like) and DeRozan (who, IMO, doesn't fit this roster). To me, Knicks are the obvious answer.

[uraverage]

Depends on how this whole Ball thing plays out and if Lavine re-signs or not. Going with Knicks until those things play out.

[Harry Garris]

I guess the Knicks just because if both of these teams become competitive 6-8 seeds and develop a strong culture following the model of what the Nets did in 2019, I think the Knicks are slightly more likely to attract a superstar free agent to sign than the Bulls are.

[Dominator83]

Our future no longer features Felecio. So Bulls!

[celticfan42487]

Bulls:

Ball
Lavine
Derozen
No one
Vuc

Kicks:
Kemba/Rose
Fournier
RJ Barret
Randle
Robinson/Noel clones

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely.

Same with 23 year old Robinson and 30 year old Vuc

The players that will drop off in the future that matter for the teams are Derozen, Kemba, Rose.

Then it just kind of comes down to 26 year old Randle and 23 year old Ball. Ironically. I just don't know man obviously Ball is unlikely to ever be good as Randle the same way RJ will likely never be as good as Lavine.

It seems like two teams that will win 40-50 games in the next couple of years, and continue to treadmill after with some young talent when their current vets fall off.

I'll give it a push:

26 year old Lavine and Randle
21 year old RJ Barret and 23 year old Ball
I guess you could give it to the current theoretical future with a 23 year old Mitchell Robinson depending on how you feel about him

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Bulls:

Ball
Lavine
Derozen
No one
Vuc

Kicks:
Kemba/Rose
Fournier
RJ Barret
Randle
Robinson/Noel clones

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely.

Same with 23 year old Robinson and 30 year old Vuc

The players that will drop off in the future that matter for the teams are Derozen, Kemba, Rose.

Then it just kind of comes down to 26 year old Randle and 23 year old Ball. Ironically. I just don't know man obviously Ball is unlikely to ever be good as Randle the same way RJ will likely never be as good as Lavine.

It seems like two teams that will win 40-50 games in the next couple of years, and continue to treadmill after with some young talent when their current vets fall off.

I'll give it a push:

26 year old Lavine and Randle
21 year old RJ Barret and 23 year old Ball
I guess you could give it to the current theoretical future with a 23 year old Mitchell Robinson depending on how you feel about him

You left off Patrick Williams, last years' 4th overall pick. He started the whole season and played pretty well but verdict is still out on him (he's only 19). He'll likely start at the 4 btw.

[Slim Charless]

The teams are equal right probably but the difference is the Knicks have more cap room available in the future and will be a definite FA draw. I'll go with NYC.

[celticfan42487]

Bulls:

I'll give it a push:

26 year old Lavine and Randle
21 year old RJ Barret and 23 year old Ball
I guess you could give it to the current theoretical future with a 23 year old Mitchell Robinson depending on how you feel about him

You left off Patrick Williams, last years' 4th overall pick. He started the whole season and played pretty well but verdict is still out on him (he's only 19). He'll likely start at the 4 btw.

I didn't really think he was worth mentioning yet. 9 ppg 4.5 rpg 10.53PER

To be fair people love Mitchell Robinson too and say he's an all star and I didn't exactly heavily sell him and he's giving you 8 and 8 on 17 per with his high block rate.

But yeah Patrick Williams is the exact type of player as to why I didn't label Robinson as a core part of the comparison.

[kamaze]

Bulls bc they have 2 all stars in Vucevic and Levine plus a good pg and Derozan

[cgf]

Bulls:

I'll give it a push:

26 year old Lavine and Randle
21 year old RJ Barret and 23 year old Ball
I guess you could give it to the current theoretical future with a 23 year old Mitchell Robinson depending on how you feel about him

You left off Patrick Williams, last years' 4th overall pick. He started the whole season and played pretty well but verdict is still out on him (he's only 19). He'll likely start at the 4 btw.

I didn't really think he was worth mentioning yet. 9 ppg 4.5 rpg 10.53PER

To be fair people love Mitchell Robinson too and say he's an all star and I didn't exactly heavily sell him and he's giving you 8 and 8 on 17 per with his high block rate.

But yeah Patrick Williams is the exact type of player as to why I didn't label Robinson as a core part of the comparison.

It's because those kids are elite defensive talents already and...at least in Williams' case...they have interesting potential offensively. Less so with mitch, who may be an elite rim-runner/roll-man, but isn't likely to ever be much more than a lob threat offensively.

Noel did well for us, but he was a clear step down from Robinson. Not only because he (like Payton) contributed nothing offensively, but also because he's just not as good defensively as Robinson. Not as strong when dealing with bigger bigs, and not as quick/long when switched onto little guys, dealing with the PnR, or defending in space.

Williams wasn't as much of a defensive anchor for the Bulls...but he was a rookie & his offensive game showed flashes of maturity that I couldn't help but be intrigued by. Would've really loved to have him next to RJ for the next decade if that draft had played out differently.



As for the thread. It's a toss up, the bulls have more talent on paper & might be closer to breaking into that next tier if the stars align for them next season...at least unless Derrick tells Kemba about the fountain of youth...but we have the better defensive talent & identity, with more flexibility & assets moving forward.

Although a big swing factor will also be Julius, if that atlanta series was just the moment getting to him & he'll come back prepared for that intensity this season, that's one thing & it's a toss up in the short- & long-term...flexibility & picks don't mean s*** if you squander them...if it was Atlanta laying out a blueprint for how to stifle Randle, that he can not adjust to, then that changes things

Barrett & Williams' development could really swing this either way as well, but I'm really high on both players for their combination of tools, intelligence, & drive...so don't wanna predict either one significantly outperforming the other and hope that over the next 5-10 years we have plenty of debates about the two of them & All-NBA placement.

[celticfan42487]

You left off Patrick Williams, last years' 4th overall pick. He started the whole season and played pretty well but verdict is still out on him (he's only 19). He'll likely start at the 4 btw.

I didn't really think he was worth mentioning yet. 9 ppg 4.5 rpg 10.53PER

To be fair people love Mitchell Robinson too and say he's an all star and I didn't exactly heavily sell him and he's giving you 8 and 8 on 17 per with his high block rate.

But yeah Patrick Williams is the exact type of player as to why I didn't label Robinson as a core part of the comparison.

It's because those kids are elite defensive talents already and...at least in Williams' case...they have interesting potential offensively. Less so with mitch, who may be an elite rim-runner/roll-man, but isn't much more than a lob threat offensively.

Noel did well for us, but he was a clear step down from Robinson. Not only because he (like Payton) contributed nothing offensively, but also because he's just not as good defensively as Robinson. Not as strong to deal with stronger bigs, and not as quick/long when switched onto little guys or dealing with the PnR.

Williams wasn't as much of a defensive anchor for the Bulls...but he was a rookie & his offensive game showed flashes of maturity that I couldn't help but be intrigued by. Would've really loved to have him next to RJ for the next decade if that draft had played out differently.



As for the thread. It's a toss up, the bulls have more talent on paper & might be closer to breaking into that next tier if the stars align for them next season...at least unless Derrick tells Kemba about the fountain of youth...but we have the better defensive talent & identity, with more flexibility & assets moving forward.

Although a big swing factor will also be Julius, if that atlanta series was just the moment getting to him & he'll come back prepared for that intensity this season, that's one thing & it's a toss up in the short- & long-term...flexibility & picks don't mean s*** if you squander them...if it was Atlanta laying out a blueprint for how to stifle Randle, that he can not adjust to, then that changes things

Barrett & Williams' development could really swing this either way as well, but I'm really high on both players for their combination of tools, intelligence, & drive...so don't wanna predict either one significantly outperforming the other and hope that over the next 5-10 years we have plenty of debates about the two of them & All-NBA placement.

Yeah it's a slipper slope though, you start mentioning Patrick Williams then you have to start talking about Quickley on the Knicks side.

It just gets complicated, in the end it's real close and everyone agrees with that. And none of us are getting paid to pin point the exact level these young guys will get at so it's probably wiser to just wait a year or two so we can get better data on them.

[Meat]

Bulls:

Ball
Lavine
Derozen
No one
Vuc

Kicks:
Kemba/Rose
Fournier
RJ Barret
Randle
Robinson/Noel clones

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely.

Same with 23 year old Robinson and 30 year old Vuc

The players that will drop off in the future that matter for the teams are Derozen, Kemba, Rose.

Then it just kind of comes down to 26 year old Randle and 23 year old Ball. Ironically. I just don't know man obviously Ball is unlikely to ever be good as Randle the same way RJ will likely never be as good as Lavine.

It seems like two teams that will win 40-50 games in the next couple of years, and continue to treadmill after with some young talent when their current vets fall off.

I'll give it a push:

26 year old Lavine and Randle
21 year old RJ Barret and 23 year old Ball
I guess you could give it to the current theoretical future with a 23 year old Mitchell Robinson depending on how you feel about him

You left off Patrick Williams, last years' 4th overall pick. He started the whole season and played pretty well but verdict is still out on him (he's only 19). He'll likely start at the 4 btw.

and Coby White, who could end up being decent

[Statlanta]

I pick Chicago to be a better NOW team and NY to be a better future team(as long as Thibs doesn’t run their players to the ground)

[cgf]

I didn't really think he was worth mentioning yet. 9 ppg 4.5 rpg 10.53PER

To be fair people love Mitchell Robinson too and say he's an all star and I didn't exactly heavily sell him and he's giving you 8 and 8 on 17 per with his high block rate.

But yeah Patrick Williams is the exact type of player as to why I didn't label Robinson as a core part of the comparison.

It's because those kids are elite defensive talents already and...at least in Williams' case...they have interesting potential offensively. Less so with mitch, who may be an elite rim-runner/roll-man, but isn't much more than a lob threat offensively.

Noel did well for us, but he was a clear step down from Robinson. Not only because he (like Payton) contributed nothing offensively, but also because he's just not as good defensively as Robinson. Not as strong to deal with stronger bigs, and not as quick/long when switched onto little guys or dealing with the PnR.

Williams wasn't as much of a defensive anchor for the Bulls...but he was a rookie & his offensive game showed flashes of maturity that I couldn't help but be intrigued by. Would've really loved to have him next to RJ for the next decade if that draft had played out differently.



As for the thread. It's a toss up, the bulls have more talent on paper & might be closer to breaking into that next tier if the stars align for them next season...at least unless Derrick tells Kemba about the fountain of youth...but we have the better defensive talent & identity, with more flexibility & assets moving forward.

Although a big swing factor will also be Julius, if that atlanta series was just the moment getting to him & he'll come back prepared for that intensity this season, that's one thing & it's a toss up in the short- & long-term...flexibility & picks don't mean s*** if you squander them...if it was Atlanta laying out a blueprint for how to stifle Randle, that he can not adjust to, then that changes things

Barrett & Williams' development could really swing this either way as well, but I'm really high on both players for their combination of tools, intelligence, & drive...so don't wanna predict either one significantly outperforming the other and hope that over the next 5-10 years we have plenty of debates about the two of them & All-NBA placement.

Yeah it's a slipper slope though, you start mentioning Patrick Williams then you have to start talking about Quickley on the Knicks side.

It just gets complicated, in the end it's real close and everyone agrees with that. And none of us are getting paid to pin point the exact level these young guys will get at so it's probably wiser to just wait a year or two so we can get better data on them.

Eh, I get not wanting to put in too much work since were not getting paid for this...but looking at kids like that is pertinent to the conversation and it's hard to have a thorough discussion on this topic without doing so.

And yes that includes kids like Quickley, Coby, & tradebait...I mean Obi...as well.

[Redemption Bong]

The Knicks young guys have more playoff experience than everyone on the Bulls not named Derozan or Caruso.

After seeing Simmons fall on his face again in the playoffs, you might want to see how guys do when the lights are on before giving them 40-50MM per year on a max (looking at Lavine, who hasn't won 4 straight in a Bulls uniform)

[DaGawd]

The Bulls future is basically the team they have now. No room to improve no picks.. for better or worse

[MeloNY]

The Bulls future is basically the team they have now. No room to improve no picks.. for better or worse

THIS.

If we are talking brighter future, the Knicks should have the edge based on future draft picks and cap flexibility alone. I see very limited upside for the Bulls, especially with the contracts they've handed out.