Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis

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Who is a better player right now?

Kevin Durant
169
50%
Giannis
171
50%
 
Total votes: 340

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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#181 » by mumoy » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:34 am

Thread summary:
Casuals claim KD is better because of eye test
Casuals claim Giannis is better because recency bias
NBA fans claim KD is better because of stats
MLK fans claim Giannis is better because of superior individual defense and equal offense but blame the coach that he cannot guard KD
/thread


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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#182 » by WRau1 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:46 am

mumoy wrote:Thread summary:
Casuals claim KD is better because of eye test
Casuals claim Giannis is better because recency bias
NBA fans claim KD is better because of stats
MLK fans claim Giannis is better because of superior individual defense and equal offense but blame the coach that he cannot guard KD
/thread


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Anyone that understands basic NBA defenses would understand why a PF/C wouldn't be guarding a perimeter player.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#183 » by DaPessimist » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:51 am

I'm still taking KD in a 7-game series, because the ability to score against playoff defense is still the most valuable skill in the game.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#184 » by AussieBuck » Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:58 am

DaPessimist wrote:I'm still taking KD in a 7-game series, because the ability to score against playoff defense is still the most valuable skill in the game.

I'm going to take the guy who won the finals with a 50 piece over the guy who went 0-5 in overtime of his last series. :D
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#185 » by Packbuckman » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:48 am

AussieBuck wrote:
DaPessimist wrote:I'm still taking KD in a 7-game series, because the ability to score against playoff defense is still the most valuable skill in the game.

I'm going to take the guy who won the finals with a 50 piece over the guy who went 0-5 in overtime of his last series. :D


This! But oh I forgot if Durant wore a size 5 they would have won :lol:
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#186 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:41 am

Packbuckman wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
nikster wrote:Yup, if you only understand man-to-man D you dont understand Defense. Beyond that, Giannis just made 3 consecutive all 1st team all Defense and Won a DPOY and came 2nd and 5th in voting the other 2 years. To claim he doenst have an edge on Durant is a joke.

And its not like this is a recent trend. The last 30 years Kawhi, Meta World Peace and Gary Payton are the only DPOYs that would spend most of their time guarding star perimeter players


The Bucks were playing man to man on several plays towards the end of games. On the most crucial plays.

They put Tucker on KD. And Holiday on him. They almost never put Giannis on him. I wonder why?

I never said he doesn't have an "edge" on KD. Why don't you actually read what I wrote? I said that gap is not that big.

Thats because most DPOYs have been big men. Giannis guard perimeter players all the time. He just doesn't guard the best ones.


Jordan LeBron and Durant are all perimeter players why would the bucks put Giannis on them when he’s their only rim protection and best rebounder out there when Durant is taking jump shots. Tucker and Middleton were during a good job Durant just was hitting tough outside shots.


Who exactly was going to punish them at the rim from the Nets?

Blake Griffin lol.

Pretty sure I would want my DPOY on the guy giving us 50. This is the same guy who was scared to guard Jimmy Butler last year too.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#187 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:41 am

nikster wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
nikster wrote:Yup, if you only understand man-to-man D you dont understand Defense. Beyond that, Giannis just made 3 consecutive all 1st team all Defense and Won a DPOY and came 2nd and 5th in voting the other 2 years. To claim he doenst have an edge on Durant is a joke.

And its not like this is a recent trend. The last 30 years Kawhi, Meta World Peace and Gary Payton are the only DPOYs that would spend most of their time guarding star perimeter players


The Bucks were playing man to man on several plays towards the end of games. On the most crucial plays.

They put Tucker on KD. And Holiday on him. They almost never put Giannis on him. I wonder why?

I never said he doesn't have an "edge" on KD. Why don't you actually read what I wrote? I said that gap is not that big.

Thats because most DPOYs have been big men. Giannis guard perimeter players all the time. He just doesn't guard the best ones.

Bucks mostly play man-to man. They didnt put him on Durant because Giannis role is a rim protector. To do that you either guard bigs or players who dont have the ball in their hands as much. Yeah Most DPOYs have been big man, you think the athletic 250 pound 7 footer doesnt fit that category? Would you be asking Why Gasol, Ben Wallace, or Gobert arent guarding Durant?


Giannis is not a Center. Comparing him to Gasol or Ben Wallace is stupid.

I've seen him guard the perimeter plenty of times.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#188 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:42 am

AussieBuck wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:You've already had it explained to you in detail in an earlier thread about the difference and impact of man D versus help D but obviously this horse won't drink. I'm sorry that you don't understand the game you watch.


You can attempt to explain it all you want.

If the Bucks rely on team defense, than Giannis's individual defense is not as valuable as you claim it to be.

But you could always attempt to use an absurd analogy about not getting a horse to drink instead :lol:

Sorry I have this crazy notion that the best defender in basketball should be able to guard the best opposing offensive player.

Thats what Jordan did. Thats what LeBron does. Thats what Kawhi does.

Yet somehow Giannis doesn't do it.

Well done, you've managed to get every single point you attempted to make wrong. You really have the basketball understanding of a small child.


Obviously you rely on ad hominem attacks because you have no argument.

Pathetic.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#189 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:45 am

AussieBuck wrote:
DaPessimist wrote:I'm still taking KD in a 7-game series, because the ability to score against playoff defense is still the most valuable skill in the game.

I'm going to take the guy who won the finals with a 50 piece over the guy who went 0-5 in overtime of his last series. :D


Pretty sure outplaying LeBron in the Finals is more impressive than scoring a lot of points on a 23 year old Center playing in his first playoffs. But thats just me. :lol:

If Giannis's 2nd best player was Bruce Brown he doesn't win a game in that series or even come close.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#190 » by WRau1 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:00 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Packbuckman wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
The Bucks were playing man to man on several plays towards the end of games. On the most crucial plays.

They put Tucker on KD. And Holiday on him. They almost never put Giannis on him. I wonder why?

I never said he doesn't have an "edge" on KD. Why don't you actually read what I wrote? I said that gap is not that big.

Thats because most DPOYs have been big men. Giannis guard perimeter players all the time. He just doesn't guard the best ones.


Jordan LeBron and Durant are all perimeter players why would the bucks put Giannis on them when he’s their only rim protection and best rebounder out there when Durant is taking jump shots. Tucker and Middleton were during a good job Durant just was hitting tough outside shots.


Who exactly was going to punish them at the rim from the Nets?

Blake Griffin lol.

Pretty sure I would want my DPOY on the guy giving us 50. This is the same guy who was scared to guard Jimmy Butler last year too.


Seriously? Do you know what help defense is? Why would the Bucks have Giannis guard KD on the perimeter when he is far more valuable taking away the paint/rim protect (since the Nets took Lopez out), forcing the Nets to have to hit tougher midrange jumpers? Do you know how efficientcy works? Also, what happened to Jimmy Butler this year when the Bucks were able to wedge screens on their 3pt shooters and force Butler to dribble create? Giannis locked him up. You should try watching basketball.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#191 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:06 am

WRau1 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Packbuckman wrote:
Jordan LeBron and Durant are all perimeter players why would the bucks put Giannis on them when he’s their only rim protection and best rebounder out there when Durant is taking jump shots. Tucker and Middleton were during a good job Durant just was hitting tough outside shots.


Who exactly was going to punish them at the rim from the Nets?

Blake Griffin lol.

Pretty sure I would want my DPOY on the guy giving us 50. This is the same guy who was scared to guard Jimmy Butler last year too.


Seriously? Do you know what help defense is? Why would the Bucks have Giannis guard KD on the perimeter when he is far more valuable taking away the paint/rim protect (since the Nets took Lopez out), forcing the Nets to have to hit tougher midrange jumpers? Do you know how efficientcy works? Also, what happened to Jimmy Butler this year when the Bucks were able to wedge screens on their 3pt shooters and force Butler to dribble create? Giannis locked him up. You should try watching basketball.


Youre right. It was the Bucks brilliant game plan to have KD score 50 in Games 5 and 7. And just hope that his toe missed the line. Excellent strategy.

Inconceivable that the DPOY could perhaps slow him down a bit instead of 40 year old PJ Tucker.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#192 » by AussieBuck » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:16 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
You can attempt to explain it all you want.

If the Bucks rely on team defense, than Giannis's individual defense is not as valuable as you claim it to be.

But you could always attempt to use an absurd analogy about not getting a horse to drink instead :lol:

Sorry I have this crazy notion that the best defender in basketball should be able to guard the best opposing offensive player.

Thats what Jordan did. Thats what LeBron does. Thats what Kawhi does.

Yet somehow Giannis doesn't do it.

Well done, you've managed to get every single point you attempted to make wrong. You really have the basketball understanding of a small child.


Obviously you rely on ad hominem attacks because you have no argument.

Pathetic.

You want a PF/C to abandon his team's defense and expose Lopez in space to waste his time guarding perimeter players. You don't understand how help D works and you have no idea about the Bucks defensive strategy despite having 7 games of it unfolding in front of you.

You made a claim that Lebron guards the best player when he has avoided doing so for the last dozen years, specifically so he could play off the worst perimeter threat and play help defense. That's where his defensive value lies. That you attempted to use him to prove the exact opposite shows that you don't understand basketball at all and have no idea how to evaluate what you're watching.

I could go on but what's the point. You have had this explained to you by multiple posters over multiple threads and you keep coming back to a very basic one on one understanding of basketball that is, as I said child-like. You should take up a coaching course or something, there's a whole lot that you are missing out on.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#193 » by WhatTheBuck » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:32 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
WRau1 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Who exactly was going to punish them at the rim from the Nets?

Blake Griffin lol.

Pretty sure I would want my DPOY on the guy giving us 50. This is the same guy who was scared to guard Jimmy Butler last year too.


Seriously? Do you know what help defense is? Why would the Bucks have Giannis guard KD on the perimeter when he is far more valuable taking away the paint/rim protect (since the Nets took Lopez out), forcing the Nets to have to hit tougher midrange jumpers? Do you know how efficientcy works? Also, what happened to Jimmy Butler this year when the Bucks were able to wedge screens on their 3pt shooters and force Butler to dribble create? Giannis locked him up. You should try watching basketball.


Youre right. It was the Bucks brilliant game plan to have KD score 50 in Games 5 and 7. And just hope that his toe missed the line. Excellent strategy.

Inconceivable that the DPOY could perhaps slow him down a bit instead of 40 year old PJ Tucker.


If Jrue doesn't stink up the joint on offence the Bucks win easily and you don't have to keep fantasizing about KD's toes.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#194 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:04 am

AussieBuck wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Well done, you've managed to get every single point you attempted to make wrong. You really have the basketball understanding of a small child.


Obviously you rely on ad hominem attacks because you have no argument.

Pathetic.

You want a PF/C to abandon his team's defense and expose Lopez in space to waste his time guarding perimeter players. You don't understand how help D works and you have no idea about the Bucks defensive strategy despite having 7 games of it unfolding in front of you.

You made a claim that Lebron guards the best player when he has avoided doing so for the last dozen years, specifically so he could play off the worst perimeter threat and play help defense. That's where his defensive value lies. That you attempted to use him to prove the exact opposite shows that you don't understand basketball at all and have no idea how to evaluate what you're watching.

I could go on but what's the point. You have had this explained to you by multiple posters over multiple threads and you keep coming back to a very basic one on one understanding of basketball that is, as I said child-like. You should take up a coaching course or something, there's a whole lot that you are missing out on.


What an absurd strawman youve created.

"Waste time" guarding perimeter players. Kevin Durant IS a PF. The guy who was scoring 50 points. Yes the only **** guy that matters of the Nets. And somehow its so crazy for Giannis to guard the exact same position that hes playing?

So you can put an old outmatched PJ Tucker on him? Thats a superior strategy?

How is interior defense such a massive priority when the Nets had no interior scoring. KD was playing the 4 and sometimes the 5. Otherwise it was Blake Griffin.

If the consequence of Giannis guarding KD more is allowing Blake Griffin more drives to the rim I think it would be a sound strategy. That you somehow think was wise.

Beyond that EVEN if I agree that this was the correct strategy. Why do it in the closing minutes? Everyone and their mother knew the only scoring option on the Nets was KD.

Nobody else could make a damn shot if their life depended on it. And yet its so essential that Giannis stays by the rim and guards Jeff Green or Blake Griffin rather than the guy who is playing the same **** position as him :lol:

LeBron always guards the best player in the final possessions which is all I'm saying Giannis should have done. And in his Miami days he would guard the best player for far longer stretches. He literally guarded Derrick Rose in the Bulls series for long stretches of the game.

Last year he was guarding Jamal Murray in the last few minutes. He guarded Durant in the Finals at times. I don't know what fantasy world you live in where LeBron is glued to the interior for the entirety of the game. Even if an opposing player is dropping 50.

"Multiple posters" you mean Bucks fans who are getting butthurt that I'm pointing out Giannis's flaws. Notice how no one else is jumping in. I wonder why. :lol:
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#195 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:06 am

WhatTheBuck wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
WRau1 wrote:
Seriously? Do you know what help defense is? Why would the Bucks have Giannis guard KD on the perimeter when he is far more valuable taking away the paint/rim protect (since the Nets took Lopez out), forcing the Nets to have to hit tougher midrange jumpers? Do you know how efficientcy works? Also, what happened to Jimmy Butler this year when the Bucks were able to wedge screens on their 3pt shooters and force Butler to dribble create? Giannis locked him up. You should try watching basketball.


Youre right. It was the Bucks brilliant game plan to have KD score 50 in Games 5 and 7. And just hope that his toe missed the line. Excellent strategy.

Inconceivable that the DPOY could perhaps slow him down a bit instead of 40 year old PJ Tucker.


If Jrue doesn't stink up the joint on offence the Bucks win easily and you don't have to keep fantasizing about KD's toes.


And if Joe Harris didn't turn into Dwight Howard from 3 the Nets win easily.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#196 » by Packbuckman » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:42 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
WhatTheBuck wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Youre right. It was the Bucks brilliant game plan to have KD score 50 in Games 5 and 7. And just hope that his toe missed the line. Excellent strategy.

Inconceivable that the DPOY could perhaps slow him down a bit instead of 40 year old PJ Tucker.


If Jrue doesn't stink up the joint on offence the Bucks win easily and you don't have to keep fantasizing about KD's toes.


And if Joe Harris didn't turn into Dwight Howard from 3 the Nets win easily.


You do realize the Nets made 20 more 3 pt shots than the bucks in that series. The bucks broke the record for the lowest 3 pt shooting as a team to win a title. And no the bucks fans are not butthurt about anything we still won despite our shooters letting your Nets hang till gm 7.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#197 » by DroseReturnChi » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:38 am

WRau1 wrote:
mumoy wrote:Thread summary:
Casuals claim KD is better because of eye test
Casuals claim Giannis is better because recency bias
NBA fans claim KD is better because of stats
MLK fans claim Giannis is better because of superior individual defense and equal offense but blame the coach that he cannot guard KD
/thread


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Anyone that understands basic NBA defenses would understand why a PF/C wouldn't be guarding a perimeter player.


well giannis can guard both interiors and perimeters. kd cant and is pretty much a 7foot jumpshooter worse Dirk.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#198 » by DroseReturnChi » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:41 am

DaPessimist wrote:I'm still taking KD in a 7-game series, because the ability to score against playoff defense is still the most valuable skill in the game.


yep he was exposed after post warrior he threw airball last shot. not taking a choker and who shies from pressure.
durant was by himself he should avg 40ppg with insane usage he is not a good player aside from scoring.
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#199 » by AdriLaker » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:52 am

Comparing Durant to Giannis is like Kobe vs LeBron years ago...Giannis/LeBron have better numbers, Durant/Kobe are better
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Re: Better Player Right Now Today: Kevin Durant or Giannis 

Post#200 » by nikster » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:29 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
nikster wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
The Bucks were playing man to man on several plays towards the end of games. On the most crucial plays.

They put Tucker on KD. And Holiday on him. They almost never put Giannis on him. I wonder why?

I never said he doesn't have an "edge" on KD. Why don't you actually read what I wrote? I said that gap is not that big.

Thats because most DPOYs have been big men. Giannis guard perimeter players all the time. He just doesn't guard the best ones.

Bucks mostly play man-to man. They didnt put him on Durant because Giannis role is a rim protector. To do that you either guard bigs or players who dont have the ball in their hands as much. Yeah Most DPOYs have been big man, you think the athletic 250 pound 7 footer doesnt fit that category? Would you be asking Why Gasol, Ben Wallace, or Gobert arent guarding Durant?


Giannis is not a Center. Comparing him to Gasol or Ben Wallace is stupid.

I've seen him guard the perimeter plenty of times.

Yes Giannis can sometimes gaurd the perimeter but that's not what he is best at defensively. He has the same role that Gasol and Wallace did on that end.

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