Better mid-range scorer: MJ or Dirk?

[SecondTake]

Who was more effective as a mid range scorer?

[Texas Chuck]

Mike. Dirk was great and you should all check out his Goldsberry shot charts if you want to see midrange efficiency at its finest. But clearly this was Mike.

[Maverick41]

Stat cuts off MJs best years but found this telling of how elite Dirk's mid range was.

Now to the question, I think MJ was the better mid range "scorer" but Dirk was the better mid range "shooter."

[BoatsNZones]

The crazy thing is that the one harp on MJ's scoring prowess coming into the league was how good of a shooter he could be, and frankly he was such a dominant athlete/slasher that we never got a great look at that aspect until the 90's. Then (especially after he came back from the baseball break), we learned that he was the greatest mid-range shooting game on the planet, and supplanted himself as the GOAT as it helped carry him to more MVP's and ships.

[dk1115]

Stat cuts off MJs best years but found this telling of how elite Dirk's mid range was.

Now to the question, I think MJ was the better mid range "scorer" but Dirk was the better mid range "shooter."

Wow Ray Allen has some pretty odd spots for a player of his caliber. I'm also weirded out that KG owns a spot in the corner as well. Lastly, I think by volume and efficiency, it's Jordan by far.

[LAL1947]

This seems disrespectful to MJ, who is rightfully the greatest mid-range scorer ever.

- Scoring champion... MJ is 10-time vs Dirk ZERO?
- RS career averages... MJ is 30 PPG vs Dirk 20 PPG.
- Playoff career averages... MJ is 33 PPG vs Dirk 25 PPG.

That too, with Dirk taking 2x more 3-PT shots than MJ... and you're asking if Dirk was a better mid-range scorer? Just no.

If the question was "shooter" rather than "scorer"... okay, you could ask that question and have some debate about it... but MJ would win that too as he and Dirk have a similar TS% (56.9% vs 57.7%) and eFG (50.9% vs 51.2%), despite MJ making 40% more FGA (25 vs 18). So the only thing Dirk was really better at is 3PT shooting (33% vs 36%).

Shame on the 5 out of 15 who've voted for Dirk so far. Really... fo' shame!

[D.Brasco]

To go against the grain, Dirk's ability to mid-range shoot like he did at 7' gave him a definite edge over MJ in the mid-range department. Almost un-blockable shot.

Again, we are specifically talking mid-range and not any other scoring aspect of their game.

[LAL1947]

To go against the grain, Dirk's ability to mid-range shoot like he did at 7' gave him a definite edge over MJ in the mid-range department. Almost un-blockable shot.

Again, we are specifically talking mid-range and not any other scoring aspect of their game.

You're ignoring all of the things that MJ could do with the ball and in the air... handles, footwork, drives, hang-time, lay-ups, dunks... some of which Dirk could only dream of doing in the way MJ could? If Dirk could play like Mike, he would... but he couldn't, so didn't.

Please be real... you're talking about the greatest mid-range scorer the game has ever seen... and dismissing everything he could do and achieved... all because of Dirk's ability to shoot as a 7-footer? Well, then why couldn't he score more, average more, win scoring titles, etc... or at the very least, get more shots off than Jordan?

[D.Brasco]

To go against the grain, Dirk's ability to mid-range shoot like he did at 7' gave him a definite edge over MJ in the mid-range department. Almost un-blockable shot.

Again, we are specifically talking mid-range and not any other scoring aspect of their game.

You're ignoring all of the things that MJ could do with the ball and in the air... handles, footwork, drives, hang-time, lay-ups, dunks... some of which Dirk could only dream of doing in the way MJ could? If Dirk could play like Mike, he would... but he couldn't, so didn't.

Please be real... you're talking about the greatest scorer the game has ever seen... and dismissing everything he could do and achieved... all because of DIrk's ability to shoot as a 7-footer? Well, then why couldn't he score more than Jordan, average more than Jordan, win scoring titles, etc?

Did you read my post or even op's post? What do lay-ups and dunks and hang time have to do with comparing mid-range game?

Carefully re-read both of our posts.

[QPR]

To go against the grain, Dirk's ability to mid-range shoot like he did at 7' gave him a definite edge over MJ in the mid-range department. Almost un-blockable shot.

Again, we are specifically talking mid-range and not any other scoring aspect of their game.

You're ignoring all of the things that MJ could do with the ball and in the air... handles, footwork, drives, hang-time, lay-ups, dunks... some of which Dirk could only dream of doing in the way MJ could? If Dirk could play like Mike, he would... but he couldn't, so didn't.

Please be real... you're talking about the greatest scorer the game has ever seen... and dismissing everything he could do and achieved... all because of DIrk's ability to shoot as a 7-footer? Well, then why couldn't he score more, average more, win scoring titles, etc... or at the very least, get more shots off than Jordan?

I think you've confused "better mid-range scorer" with "better scorer".

[LAL1947]

Did you read my post or even op's post? What do lay-ups and dunks and hang time have to do with comparing mid-range game?

Carefully re-read both of our posts.

I think you've confused "better mid-range scorer" with "better scorer".

D.Brasco & QPR - Perhaps, I'm wrong in how I'm interpreting what is meant... but I'll blame the OP for making this thread and not specifying what he means more clearly.

The thread title and first post both ask, who was more effective as a "mid-range scorer?".

Since he does not say "shooter"... but says "scorer"... I think there is more that goes into having and executing a mid-range scoring game than just taking mid-range shots.

One example: how are you going to classify MJ's points from lay-ups and dunks that originate from his own work in the mid-range areas and not from being fed the ball down low by a team-mate?

Second example: where are we going to factor all of the skills/talent he would execute or utilize starting in the mid-range and ending at the rim... in order to generate a more constant rate of scoring chances for himself (despite not being a 7-footer), both from mid-range shots, post-up moves, as well as from ensuing lay-ups/dunks.

[Chanel Bomber]

It would be interesting to do a comparison between MJ's percentages from midrange in 1995-96 and Dirk's in 2010-11.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Dirk's percentages were higher.

Both were volume scorers from midrange. MJ, of course, had the option to get to the rim with more ease than Dirk.

[Apz]

Oh, and dirk could get to the rim when younger, not when 40 tho

[art_tatum]

lets look at the numbers
shooting % by distance only went back to the 96-97 season so you miss jordans prime and his best years % wise.
so the career stat is of the last two years on bulls and 2 years on the wiz (which drags down his % as thats half the data.)

MJ over his last 4 seasons: 10- 16ft: .444 16ft-3pt: .453

dirk career: 10- 16ft: .468 16-3pt : .474

best seasons (again only had the last 2 years of jordan on the bulls):

MJ 96-97 the first year these stats were consistent: 10-16 ft: .492 16ft-3pt: .521

Dirk career best 10-11: 10-16 ft: .500 16ft-3pt: .526

both of them won the chip that year.
too bad we dont have data for jordan pre 97 to compare.
these guys were dropping 52-53% with the worst shot in basketball

[Jables]

Playoffs are where the midrange scorers thrive, Dirk in his last 10 years put 30+ in two series against Memphis and OKC, I don't need to give you the series where MJ put up 30+ in his transition to more of a midrange scorer, it's nearly all of them.

[BoatsNZones]

lets look at the numbers
shooting % by distance only went back to the 96-97 season so you miss jordans prime and his best years % wise.
so the career stat is of the last two years on bulls and 2 years on the wiz (which drags down his % as thats half the data.)

MJ over his last 4 seasons: 10- 16ft: .444 16ft-3pt: .453

dirk career: 10- 16ft: .468 16-3pt : .474

best seasons (again only had the last 2 years of jordan on the bulls):

MJ 96-97 the first year these stats were consistent: 10-16 ft: .492 16ft-3pt: .521

Dirk career best 10-11: 10-16 ft: .500 16ft-3pt: .526

both of them won the chip that year.
too bad we dont have data for jordan pre 97 to compare.
these guys were dropping 52-53% with the worst shot in basketball

Just reading an old article on ESPN I do know in 96-97 Jordan had something like a 40% higher volume on mid-range makes than the #2 in volume (in a league that had a much higher rate of mid-range). Not sure where Dirk rates there. Bears mentioning that while Dirk also had the defense focused on him, Jordan was considered GOAT at that point and guarding him in the post was basically every defenders biggest defensive moment(s) of their season.

Dirk is certainly the modern mid-range GOAT though. It's a worthy comparison.

[SerialChiller]

Yes like one guy said better midrange shooter Dirk. But MJ could score better from midrange with his insane amount of ways. Pull up, post up, catch and shoot, off the dribble etc.

[DroseReturnChi]

dirk was unstoppable why kd copied one leged patent. you cant say that to mj.

[LAL1947]

dirk was unstoppable why kd copied one leged patent. you cant say that to mj.

I see your "one legged patent"... and raise you a Kobe, who was a greater player than both Dirk and KD, and copied MJ's whole mid-range game.

[Duke4life831]

Im going to go with a cop-out answer here but whatever.

MJ was more skilled, Dirk was more effective.

What I mean by this is, it took a lot more moves and ability for MJ to get a clean shot off. So he really had to max out his footwork and all his moves. While Dirk on the other hand was 7 feet, so right there it gives him a massive advantage.

So ya I think MJ had more moves and cleaner footwork (no way a shot at Dirk, MJ's midrange footwork is arguably as good as it gets though). But ya Dirk was literally unstoppable in the midrange. Also to put it into perspective just how insanely unstoppable Dirk's midrange game was. Prime Dirk came in the same time as prime KD and prime KG, two of the best defenders that position has ever seen. Even they couldn't stop him. He lit up KG that one time when Dallas swept Minny in the playoffs. And again to be perfectly clear, this isn't me taking a swipe at KG, that's just how unstoppable Dirk was. You literally couldn't defend him in the midrange, if Dirk missed it was because of Dirk, not because of whatever defense you played.

And ya when it came to MJ, I could watch a hour highlight of just him in the midrange. His midrange game was just that good and that beautiful. So overall skill and versatility Id go MJ, but overall effectiveness, gotta go Dirk. That midrange one legged shot was as unstoppable as Kareem's skyhook. Just one of those legendary shots.