Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C?

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Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C?

PF
143
54%
C
122
46%
 
Total votes: 265

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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#141 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:43 pm

The Lakers really were the only other team that played 2 centers when they had Elden and Shaq but that experiment didn't work out well since they ended up trading Elden.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#142 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:58 pm

DoctorX wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
I'm referring to the era Duncan played in and not the the previous era.


Pacers Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal. Hornet Magloire and PJ Brown. I don't recall the 03 piston's offense but by that point Cliff Robinson's game looked pretty much like a center's game and does ben wallace even have a position? If he's a center then the pistons did it too.

Two centers wasn't uncommon. Again a team running a legit 1-5 is uncommon. Heck 98 the pacers with Davis and Smits....just two centers man.


The question is was PJ,Jermaine really a center? I don't think either of them were hence them playing the PF.


I'll give you that Jermaine could shoot well enough to call him a power forward, but he's a back to the basket center in most systems. He's listed almost interchangeably most years at either center or power forward. But with his rim protection and post up game, he most naturally would fall into center. PJ isn't that different all though not as good or versatile. If these guys aren't the "center" sure they can take a 15-20 foot jumper, but you're playing them in these lineups to have two shot blockers and just how big long guys who can work in the paint. The same idea the spurs did with there "centers" who played with Duncan who often had to step out to let Duncan work in the low block.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#143 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:59 pm

DoctorX wrote:The Lakers really were the only other team that played 2 centers when they had Elden and Shaq but that experiment didn't work out well since they ended up trading Elden.


Gasol and Bynum effectively became a two center system though the triangle likely "defined" Gasol when they were together more as a 4 just due to the nature of that system.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#144 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:29 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Pacers Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal. Hornet Magloire and PJ Brown. I don't recall the 03 piston's offense but by that point Cliff Robinson's game looked pretty much like a center's game and does ben wallace even have a position? If he's a center then the pistons did it too.

Two centers wasn't uncommon. Again a team running a legit 1-5 is uncommon. Heck 98 the pacers with Davis and Smits....just two centers man.


The question is was PJ,Jermaine really a center? I don't think either of them were hence them playing the PF.


I'll give you that Jermaine could shoot well enough to call him a power forward, but he's a back to the basket center in most systems. He's listed almost interchangeably most years at either center or power forward. But with his rim protection and post up game, he most naturally would fall into center. PJ isn't that different all though not as good or versatile. If these guys aren't the "center" sure they can take a 15-20 foot jumper, but you're playing them in these lineups to have two shot blockers and just how big long guys who can work in the paint. The same idea the spurs did with there "centers" who played with Duncan who often had to step out to let Duncan work in the low block.


I would say guys like Jermaine,PJ are hybrid PF/Cs. They are primarily PF's but can play center for small stretches in a game but couldn't do it for a full game consistently over 82 games.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#145 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:32 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:The Lakers really were the only other team that played 2 centers when they had Elden and Shaq but that experiment didn't work out well since they ended up trading Elden.


Gasol and Bynum effectively became a two center system though the triangle likely "defined" Gasol when they were together more as a 4 just due to the nature of that system.


You can say Pau played more like a center when he was with the Lakers but I always felt Pau was a PF since he didn't like to bang down low a lot in the post along with not liking physicality. Pau also had great face up game from the midrange area. HIs brother Marc now was a true center considering he was more bulky and more of a physical presence in the post.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#146 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:38 am

DoctorX wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
The question is was PJ,Jermaine really a center? I don't think either of them were hence them playing the PF.


I'll give you that Jermaine could shoot well enough to call him a power forward, but he's a back to the basket center in most systems. He's listed almost interchangeably most years at either center or power forward. But with his rim protection and post up game, he most naturally would fall into center. PJ isn't that different all though not as good or versatile. If these guys aren't the "center" sure they can take a 15-20 foot jumper, but you're playing them in these lineups to have two shot blockers and just how big long guys who can work in the paint. The same idea the spurs did with there "centers" who played with Duncan who often had to step out to let Duncan work in the low block.


I would say guys like Jermaine,PJ are hybrid PF/Cs. They are primarily PF's but can play center for small stretches in a game but couldn't do it for a full game consistently over 82 games.


Why can't they do it? You either play in the low post or don't...teams don't always even play centers...

But both these guys had roles on teams where they were the tallest guy who played the most in the low block.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#147 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:43 am

DoctorX wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:The Lakers really were the only other team that played 2 centers when they had Elden and Shaq but that experiment didn't work out well since they ended up trading Elden.


Gasol and Bynum effectively became a two center system though the triangle likely "defined" Gasol when they were together more as a 4 just due to the nature of that system.


You can say Pau played more like a center when he was with the Lakers but I always felt Pau was a PF since he didn't like to bang down low a lot in the post along with not liking physicality. Pau also had great face up game from the midrange area. HIs brother Marc now was a true center considering he was more bulky and more of a physical presence in the post.


By that logic David Robinson wasn't a center. Hell there might be 100 well known centers we could go over like that. Is jordan a center because he liked to bang down low and enjoyed physicality?

Historically, the power forward was simply the less talented big man on most teams, by nba history, not high school where they do play more traditional roles and where positions make more sense.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#148 » by EArl » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:01 am

either the best PF of all time or a top 5-10 center of all time.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#149 » by AussieBuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:24 am

DoctorX wrote:You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?

The Bucks just won a title with Giannis/Lopez. Giannis is an extra C because Lopez can basically only operate in a very small zone due to his lack of foot speed. Giannis pretends to guard the corner but basically spends his whole time with one foot in the key. when things get rough for Brook against quicker teams or we need offense we go with Giannis at C and bench Brook. Pretty similar to young Timmy. Timmy was basically a full time C by 28 which is a couple of seasons away for Giannis. I could see that being the same path for Giannis as Lopez ages out.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#150 » by Blacksheep25 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:25 am

He’s one of the few players I just think of as a big.

Playing all 4 years in college, I viewed him as a C, then PF as a pro.

IDoesn’t matter. All time great who was the best player in the world for a good stretch imo. That’s how I think of players.

Was there a time this guy was the best in the world. Not MVPs which are sometimes clown regular season awards and many MVPs were never the best player, but is this guy the very best in the world?

I think he was most seasons from post Shaq peak 2003 up until LeBron took the mantle. Maybe Kobe or someone has an argument for a year, but he was the best in the world between Shaq and Lebron. That’s rarified air to be the very best in the world multiple years.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#151 » by boomershadow » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:19 am

David West is almost universally thought of as a power forward playing in a similar era as Duncan. He had a back to the basket game, played down low and was physical, had very little perimeter or ball handling skills, and didn't shoot 3s or play the center position until the last few years of his career.

What we think of as a power forward has changed.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#152 » by LAL1947 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:20 am

Blacksheep25 wrote:Was there a time this guy was the best in the world. Not MVPs which are sometimes clown regular season awards and many MVPs were never the best player, but is this guy the very best in the world?

I think he was most seasons from post Shaq peak 2003 up until LeBron took the mantle. Maybe Kobe or someone has an argument for a year, but he was the best in the world between Shaq and Lebron. That’s rarified air to be the very best in the world multiple years.

I think this is probably the most accurate that either side will admit to.

Shaq > Duncan/Kobe during 1998-2002.
Duncan > Shaq/Kobe 2002-2005.
Kobe > Duncan/Dirk 2005-2007.
Kobe > Dirk/Lebron 2007-2010.
Lebron > Dirk/Kobe 2010-2012.

Keeping it simple and didn't add short peaks from guys like Nash, KG, D-Wade, T-Mac.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#153 » by Blacksheep25 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:11 am

LAL1947 wrote:
Blacksheep25 wrote:Was there a time this guy was the best in the world. Not MVPs which are sometimes clown regular season awards and many MVPs were never the best player, but is this guy the very best in the world?

I think he was most seasons from post Shaq peak 2003 up until LeBron took the mantle. Maybe Kobe or someone has an argument for a year, but he was the best in the world between Shaq and Lebron. That’s rarified air to be the very best in the world multiple years.

I think this is probably the most accurate that either side will admit to.

Shaq > Duncan/Kobe during 1998-2002.
Duncan > Shaq/Kobe 2002-2005.
Kobe > Duncan/Dirk 2005-2007.
Kobe > Dirk/Lebron 2007-2010.
Lebron > Dirk/Kobe 2010-2012.

Keeping it simple and didn't add short peaks from guys like Nash, KG, D-Wade, T-Mac.



I wasn’t looking for consensus or agreement. I watched them all and formed my own opinion. Giving Kobe even a year or two where he might have been is a concession I don’t really believe. I’m not sure I ever think he was the best player in the world for a single season, but don’t care if you do.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#154 » by LAL1947 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:42 am

Blacksheep25 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
Blacksheep25 wrote:Was there a time this guy was the best in the world. Not MVPs which are sometimes clown regular season awards and many MVPs were never the best player, but is this guy the very best in the world?

I think he was most seasons from post Shaq peak 2003 up until LeBron took the mantle. Maybe Kobe or someone has an argument for a year, but he was the best in the world between Shaq and Lebron. That’s rarified air to be the very best in the world multiple years.

I think this is probably the most accurate that either side will admit to.

Shaq > Duncan/Kobe during 1998-2002.
Duncan > Shaq/Kobe 2002-2005.
Kobe > Duncan/Dirk 2005-2007.
Kobe > Dirk/Lebron 2007-2010.
Lebron > Dirk/Kobe 2010-2012.

Keeping it simple and didn't add short peaks from guys like Nash, KG, D-Wade, T-Mac.



I wasn’t looking for consensus or agreement. I watched them all and formed my own opinion. Giving Kobe even a year or two where he might have been is a concession I don’t really believe. I’m not sure I ever think he was the best player in the world for a single season, but don’t care if you do.

I wasn't looking for your consensus or agreement either. Was simply using your quote as a basis for my post. Cheers.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#155 » by SNPA » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:11 pm

This poll ranks poorly for overall Board IQ.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#156 » by Cubbies2120 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:58 am

LAL1947 wrote:
Blacksheep25 wrote:Was there a time this guy was the best in the world. Not MVPs which are sometimes clown regular season awards and many MVPs were never the best player, but is this guy the very best in the world?

I think he was most seasons from post Shaq peak 2003 up until LeBron took the mantle. Maybe Kobe or someone has an argument for a year, but he was the best in the world between Shaq and Lebron. That’s rarified air to be the very best in the world multiple years.

I think this is probably the most accurate that either side will admit to.

Shaq > Duncan/Kobe during 1998-2002.
Duncan > Shaq/Kobe 2002-2005.
Kobe > Duncan/Dirk 2005-2007.
Kobe > Dirk/Lebron 2007-2010.
Lebron > Dirk/Kobe 2010-2012.

Keeping it simple and didn't add short peaks from guys like Nash, KG, D-Wade, T-Mac.


Lol so cute how you say Shaq > Duncan/Kobe as if Duncan and Kobe were on the same tier in that time period (98-02). Kobe was a distant, DISTANT third in that trio.

Also, Kobe > Duncan only after Duncan's prime ended, and then, LeBron took over. There is only maybe two years that Kobe was ARGUABLY the best player in the league. No cap.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#157 » by Hroz » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:32 am

Anyone saying C are kidding themselves

In today's NBA sure he'd be a C.

But for most his career including his prime he was a PF
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#158 » by Antinomy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:49 am

Are people forgetting that the POWER Forward position looked way different 15-20+ years ago?

A 6’9-6’11 guy playing PF was extremely common back then. Garnett, Dirk, Aldridge, Malone, Rasheed Wallace, Pau Gasol, Z-Bo,Jermaine O’Neal, Elton Brand, Boozer, Amare, Scola, David West, etc were all in that range & clearly played PF.

I never understood the obsession of redacting Duncan to the C position. He spent 90% of his career after Robinson starting next to plodding Centers.

Why would the Spurs go out of their way all those years to sign & start a big man next to Duncan if he was “actually” a Center?

In the post 2015-2016 game, sure he’s a C.

In any other era, he’s a PF. And always was.

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