Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C?

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Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C?

PF
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C
122
46%
 
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#121 » by Dick Tate » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:27 pm

ceiling raiser wrote:Positions don't matter all that much, but haven't seen a thread on this in a while.

What do you think?

I think there should be a "Both" option.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#122 » by jazzfan1971 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:32 pm

If it walks, quacks, and flies like a duck, it's a duck.

Or whatever.

Duncan played like a center on both sides of the floor. He had center size. He was a center that often lined up at the PF position.

But very clearly a center to anyone with eyes.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#123 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:43 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I repeat this is the dumbest. When you have to argue that Rasho wasn't a center in order to insist Duncan was never a PF.....

He was a big. And one of the 3 best to ever play. Why do any of you care if its PF or C?


Mostly because this topic leads to every other topic that refuses to accept all teams don't have 5 unique positions on the floor at all times. If someone can't understand that Rasho AND Duncan were in a two center lineup, I'm not sure what else can be said.


Yeah sorry that feels like trying to justify a position way too hard. With Admiral you could argue they played 2 centers because hey you have two of the best players in the world, get them both on the court and make it work. But you wouldn't then intentionally go out and sign a really average player like Rasho to force a two center lineup when you could go get a PF to pair with your super talented and versatile guy who for some crazy reason you think can only play center.

Just doesn't add up.


Most teams don't run a traditional 1-5. And never have. The spurs for years wanted to run a two center system. The spurs wanted two bigs so they could play one big for 20-25 minutes a game against the other team's post up centers to let Duncan effectively play into a zone around the basket, and then in crunch time they'd go small to improve the offense.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#124 » by HomoSapien » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:49 pm

I mean, he's both. He started playing PF because of Robinson but continued playing it next to guys like Nazr Mohammed, Oberto, and Ellison. Personally, I think of him as more of a center, but it's hard to dispute those saying he's a PF since he played that position.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#125 » by Harry Garris » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:37 pm

He played like a center on defense, and he played like a center on offense. Tim Duncan was a big. What position he was is up for debate but nowadays PFs are wings and Tim Duncan was most certainly not that.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#126 » by The_Hater » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:39 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I repeat this is the dumbest. When you have to argue that Rasho wasn't a center in order to insist Duncan was never a PF.....

He was a big. And one of the 3 best to ever play. Why do any of you care if its PF or C?



It doesn’t really matter, but when we rank ATG’s by position, Duncan is the clear GOAT at PF but probably ranks anywhere from 3rd to 6th best as a Center. I would personally have him 5th. I think it matters in this context

And yes he played with Rasho, but when the starting player beside him was Rose or Bonner or Blair or Oberto they still had him as the PF. Ralph Sampson played the 4 beside Hakeem but he’s not historically recognized as a PF.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#127 » by Harry Garris » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:40 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I mean, he's both. He started playing PF because of Robinson but continued playing it next to guys like Nazr Mohammed, Oberto, and Ellison. Personally, I think of him as more of a center, but it's hard to dispute those saying he's a PF since he played that position.


The Spurs played with two centers on the floor sometimes. I don't know why we care about positions so much because they don't accurately describe what players are doing on the floor, so what's the point?

It's like Lebron on the Heat people thought it was really important that we called Mario Chalmers the point guard and Lebron was the SF, even though Lebron was doing 95% of the point guard-y stuff. I never got why it was so important to people.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#128 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:40 pm

You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#129 » by Harry Garris » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:42 pm

DoctorX wrote:You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?


Lots of teams did in the early 2000s. Later in Tim Duncan's career he shared the floor with a second big less often.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#130 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:45 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I repeat this is the dumbest. When you have to argue that Rasho wasn't a center in order to insist Duncan was never a PF.....

He was a big. And one of the 3 best to ever play. Why do any of you care if its PF or C?



It doesn’t matter, but when we rank ATG’s by position, Duncan is the clear GOAT at PF but probably ranks anywhere from 3rd to 6th best as a Center. I would personally have him 5th.


Only centers imo who can be argued convincingly over Duncan as players are Russell obviously and Kareem. I'm guessing you also have Shaq and Wilt? Dream being the 6th guy?

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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#131 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:45 pm

Harry Garris wrote:
DoctorX wrote:You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?


Lots of teams did in the early 2000s. Later in Tim Duncan's career he shared the floor with a second big less often.


I can't really think of any other team that did have 2 centers play together at the same time during the '00s. Maybe you can say Miami with ZO/PJ Brown but PJ really was a PF and not a center. There is the Hornets with Campbell/PJ Brown but like I said earlier Brown was a PF despite being 6'11.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#132 » by The_Hater » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:47 pm

DoctorX wrote:You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?


The Rockets played Hakeem/Sampson together and made the finals. Nobody really considered Sampson a PF though.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#133 » by tamaraw08 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:48 pm

For the most part, did he guarded mostly centers or PF's? Was he the biggest/tallest Spur on the floor?
Most of shots were shot from how many feet?
IMO, he is a center but bec of so many Great Centers already in the HOF, his fans and team wanted to make him as the ultimate best PF all time.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#134 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:52 pm

The_Hater wrote:
DoctorX wrote:You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?


The Rockets played Hakeem/Sampson together and made the finals. Nobody really considered Sampson a PF though.


I'm referring to the era Duncan played in and not the the previous era.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#135 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:09 pm

Harry Garris wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I mean, he's both. He started playing PF because of Robinson but continued playing it next to guys like Nazr Mohammed, Oberto, and Ellison. Personally, I think of him as more of a center, but it's hard to dispute those saying he's a PF since he played that position.


The Spurs played with two centers on the floor sometimes. I don't know why we care about positions so much because they don't accurately describe what players are doing on the floor, so what's the point?

It's like Lebron on the Heat people thought it was really important that we called Mario Chalmers the point guard and Lebron was the SF, even though Lebron was doing 95% of the point guard-y stuff. I never got why it was so important to people.


The position topic always kinda makes me laugh. Lets look at what the word even means.

Position - a place where someone or something is located or has been put.

The idea of position in basketball is that it should give you and idea of where a player is primarily located on the floor at any given time. This is why a "switch everything" world removes them from the game. Players no longer are "in that position" as in they're playing a larger and large area of the floor.

Great players have always occupied MORE space on the floor that lesser players. Think superstar vs non superstar. Hakeem or Duncan can occupy the traditional zones of a 3-5 seamlessly depending on who guards them. Keep in mind the small forward today has become more a "wing" and thus has moved back behind the 3 point line, but if you took the pre 3 point line view, they were very capable attacking off the dribble 18 feet out against certain players. So anytime we discuss a great player, they will almost never fit into just one position, that's why they're great. They can create from a larger area of the floor. That said, even great players eventually will imprint there "zone" and you'll see tendencies.

Duncan even when he played with Robinson very clearly occupied the center "zone" more than anyone else on that team. He was always more comfortable in the low post/block than even Robinson offensively. Robinson much preferred his faceup game. But that said those spurs also had two guys who mostly did occupy the "center" zone on the floor, often together. This made the paint very congested which benefited their defense (all time great) and hurt their offense (not all time great).

Pop's system in those early days was very much about over playing the paint and has less focus on the high post. AKA he wanted two centers and because one was a star, Duncan offensively like every other great star could play in a wider zone, but his foot print was always that of a center.

Today think about 2-4 and you'll find non stars occupy really just the full area around the 3 point line and really it can be anywhere in that area as well as guarding against drives and pick and rolls. The star players as always are given a wider foot print and can occupy and work in the mid range just like they always did before. You still see centers in that Dunker spot vs posting up generally speaking. And the "point" will often be the one setting up the offense up top (though defensively they can find themselves using space like anyone else 1-4).
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#136 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:26 pm

DoctorX wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
DoctorX wrote:You have people now arguing that the Spurs played a 2 center lineup with Duncan/Robinson and then Duncan/Rasho,Nazr,Splitter. I guess the question to ask now is why couldn't nobody else replicate a 2 center line up in the NBA but the Spurs could?


The Rockets played Hakeem/Sampson together and made the finals. Nobody really considered Sampson a PF though.


I'm referring to the era Duncan played in and not the the previous era.


Pacers Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal. Hornet Magloire and PJ Brown. I don't recall the 03 piston's offense but by that point Cliff Robinson's game looked pretty much like a center's game and does ben wallace even have a position? If he's a center then the pistons did it too.

Two centers wasn't uncommon. Again a team running a legit 1-5 is uncommon. Heck 98 the pacers with Davis and Smits....just two centers man.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#137 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:32 pm

DaPessimist wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
DaPessimist wrote:He played PF. So I think of him as a PF.

I mean......


(I'm not taking these as gospel, but he certainly played a ton of center, maybe even more than PF.).

For the record I remember him as a power forward. The best one of all time.



He won 4 of his 5 titles as a PF. Even in '06/'07 Oberto and Elson were starting at Center.


Ya I don't understand how they classify him as the center that year, he clearly wasn't. 07/08 he played again next to Kurt Thomas, Elson, and mainly Oberto. It wasn't until 08/09 when he officially became the center.

So years 1-11, ages 21-32 he was a PF. And in his older age he transitioned to playing center because it made more sense.

While he was still excellent those years, they weren't his prime years. So I personally consider him as "the GOAT PF".
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#138 » by The_Hater » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:38 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
The Rockets played Hakeem/Sampson together and made the finals. Nobody really considered Sampson a PF though.


I'm referring to the era Duncan played in and not the the previous era.


Pacers Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal. Hornet Magloire and PJ Brown. I don't recall the 03 piston's offense but by that point Cliff Robinson's game looked pretty much like a center's game and does ben wallace even have a position? If he's a center then the pistons did it too.

Two centers wasn't uncommon. Again a team running a legit 1-5 is uncommon. Heck 98 the pacers with Davis and Smits....just two centers man.


The Raps played a Jermaine, Bargnani, Bosh frontcourt for half a season. All 3 were Centers for a huge chunk of their careers. The Bulls planned on a Curry/Chandler combo that ultimately didn’t work. The Pacers with Smits/Davis/Davis.

Lots of teams have played with 2 starting Centers, the issue was that they weren’t as successful as the Spurs.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#139 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:40 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
The Rockets played Hakeem/Sampson together and made the finals. Nobody really considered Sampson a PF though.


I'm referring to the era Duncan played in and not the the previous era.


Pacers Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal. Hornet Magloire and PJ Brown. I don't recall the 03 piston's offense but by that point Cliff Robinson's game looked pretty much like a center's game and does ben wallace even have a position? If he's a center then the pistons did it too.

Two centers wasn't uncommon. Again a team running a legit 1-5 is uncommon. Heck 98 the pacers with Davis and Smits....just two centers man.


The question is was PJ,Jermaine really a center? I don't think either of them were hence them playing the PF.
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Re: Let's settle this. Do you think of Duncan as a PF or C? 

Post#140 » by DoctorX » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:42 pm

The_Hater wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
I'm referring to the era Duncan played in and not the the previous era.


Pacers Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal. Hornet Magloire and PJ Brown. I don't recall the 03 piston's offense but by that point Cliff Robinson's game looked pretty much like a center's game and does ben wallace even have a position? If he's a center then the pistons did it too.

Two centers wasn't uncommon. Again a team running a legit 1-5 is uncommon. Heck 98 the pacers with Davis and Smits....just two centers man.


The Raps played a Jermaine, Bargnani, Bosh frontcourt for half a season. All 3 were Centers for a huge chunk of their careers. The Bulls planned on a Curry/Chandler combo that ultimately didn’t work. The Pacers with Smits/Davis/Davis.

Lots of teams have played with 2 starting Centers, the issue was that they weren’t as successful as the Spurs.


The Davis brothers both were PF's in my eyes. Both were 6'9 so not tall enough to play a center full time granted AD played center for the Raptors but I always felt he was undersized.

Bosh really wasn't a center. He wasn't built to play the center spot. He truly was a PF in my eyes.

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