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DCasey91 wrote:

Catchall wrote:He was the pivot both on offense and defense. I think of him as a center. I mean, he almost never dribbled the ball or shot the ball off the dribble, unless it was a running hook shot.

Didn’t need that Big Fundamentals was that. 3 post moves and a left/right baby hook, power dunk, layup and a sweet midrange jumpshot along with being one of the better playmaking/passing bigs ever is all you need.

Mchale had a sweet fader too btw.

That above >>>>>> more important than the fancy dribble dribble stuff today. Bigs shouldn’t put the ball on the floor and do AI stuff. Being a defender you’d be counting your blessings.

Agreed. I feel really your only advantage as a big is your ability to post up and score easy baskets vs a perimeter player. Unless you have a great jump shot like Dirk and Durant then you are not going to have an advantage over a perimeter player when it comes to shooting.

DaPessimist wrote:

Baddy Chuck wrote:

DaPessimist wrote:He played PF. So I think of him as a PF.

I mean......


(I'm not taking these as gospel, but he certainly played a ton of center, maybe even more than PF.).

For the record I remember him as a power forward. The best one of all time.

He won 4 of his 5 titles as a PF. Even in '06/'07 Oberto and Elson were starting at Center.

True point, but I think it's more so the idea that San Antonio quite often played two centers. It's a common misconception like "Player A is a center, that means Tim Duncan must be a PF!" Especially in an era when a lot of 4's were 6'8'' bruisers who couldn't really shoot. Why not play two guys that are 7 feet tall?

The common positions PG-SG-SF-PF-C are an artificially created structure, teams are allowed to deviate from this and play 5 players however they see it. In my view, Tim Duncan was a center who played on a team that commonly featured two big men in their rotation. And on 95% of teams, he's a straight up 5 no debate whatsoever.

PF but he got the most out of whatever position he played.

JimmyPlopper wrote:PF at one point was designated to the more perimeter oriented of the two big men and Duncan's skills in that range, rather than his lack of size at center, were - in combination with being drafted next to the Admiral - what caused him to be labeled as more of a PF than a C.

Although Duncan was playing in the post and the Admiral was the guy playing the perimeter in that duo, so realistically on offense Duncan was the center and the Admiral was the stretch 4. The position titles ended up more about defensive matchups in the end.

DCasey91 wrote:Nobody wanted anything to do Lakers Shaq

Hahaha, that's true. I used to feel so bad for the centers who had to take him on prior to 2002-03... even though it gave me the chuckles watching him dunk on them or knock them out of the way in the low-post. 2000-01 was his most brutal because of how big he got while still being somewhat mobile... but I think there were years when he had a better balance between size and mobility, like that highlight clip, which is from 1997.

DCasey91 wrote:You’d need a Wilt reincarnate to neutralize Fat Shaq.

Battle of the titans! I'd pay good money to see that.

DoctorX wrote:

LAL1947 wrote:I think Tim Duncan being classified as a PF is the first time the NBA ever saw a 7-foot, 250lb Center being referred to as a Power Forward. Timmy was smart and called himself a Power Forward too, because he was scared of having to defend Shaq by himself when he came into the league, and could leave the thankless job of defending that Shaq to poor David Robinson... who would get absolutely hammered instead... while Timmy got to feast on guys like Robert Horry.

Here's a video of true prime, mobile Shaq dunking on David Robinson. This video needs an R or XXX rating for how badly he abused that man. You can see why Timmy wanted no part of a job that involved defending Shaq by himself until 2002-03, when Shaq had the toe surgery and lost the mobility... and after the reintroduction of Zone Defense in 2001-02.

Watch on YouTube

So Duncan guarding Shaq in '02 and '03 doesn't count. What silly logic. Duncan was also never scared of Shaq. He asked to guard Shaq in game 2 of the '01 WCF. He guarded him from start to finish and outplayed him in that game. Duncan had 40 while Shaq had 19 on 38 percent shooting.

Watch on YouTube

;t=101s

Also you discrediting Duncan's great defense on Shaq in '02 by saying Shaq was hurt is faulty logic. Shaq easily dominated the Kings and Nets the next two rounds after the Spurs series was over. He was fine against the Spurs just that Duncan's defense made him look bad. It's amazing how his toe didn't bother him the next two rounds

Obviously these videos are not for you but for other fans to see how great of a defender Duncan was on Shaq.

Watch on YouTube

;t=20s

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

;t=266s

Duncan is one of the best Shaq defenders in history.

The Spurs won a title with Francisco Elson as the starting center. Need I say more?

Tim Duncan (and Olajuwon btw) are closer to 6'10 than 7 ft.

DaPessimist wrote:He played PF. So I think of him as a PF.

He really played center most of his life, he was just listed PF on paper.

[url][/url]

UcanUwill wrote:

DaPessimist wrote:He played PF. So I think of him as a PF.

He really played center most of his life, he was just listed PF on paper.

Is that why so many people are mental. I could not figure it out. Robinson has been retired since 2002, Duncan has clearly been the centre since, even if you didn’t pick it up before that.

Johnny Bball wrote:[url][/url]

UcanUwill wrote:

DaPessimist wrote:He played PF. So I think of him as a PF.

He really played center most of his life, he was just listed PF on paper.

Is that why so many people are mental. I could not figure it out. Robinson has been retired since 2002, Duncan has clearly been the centre since, even if you didn’t pick it up before that.

I think a lot of people still think that every line up in game must have PG/SG/SF/PF/C and no matter who is playing, you must assign those 5 positions. When in reality positions are blurred and most teams can play with 3-4 guards, 3 points guards, no center at all or wahtever. Where Popovic was unique, is that he was the one guy who really played 2 centers at the same time. I know that doesnt sound logical, but that was the truth. People always bring the fact Tiago Splitter was starting for them, and yes, hes a center, but that doesn't mean that when both Duncan and SPlitter shared minutes, Duncan was forward, they really were both centers at the same time, and anyhow... Splitter would just sit after 5 minutes, and Duncan be a true C for the rest of the game.

The mental gymnastics media and fans used to make Duncan PF was sometimes a huge reach. Like I remember they used to list Matt Bonner as center, and Duncan as PF, like come on, who are you kidding at this point.

Popovic often switched the starting big next to Duncan, and I remember one pre game interview, someone asked Pop who is starting center today, and he said - the same guy who was starting center for us for the last 15 years - Tim Duncan... That pretty much says it all what Pop himself thought about the situation.

Who cares. He was a traditional big man, and a very good one.

kodo wrote:It's depends on which era is defining the term PF.
Back then, there were guys like Kevin Willis at 7' 0" and was listed as PF almost his entire career. His game was 100% center by today's standards.

I don't know if Tim Duncan really changed when he switched from PF to C, I think the NBA changed around him but he always played the same.

He probably played less in the post and more in space and in the pick and pop when he was a C on the depth chart lol.

Like seriously, position labels mean nothing.

Tim Duncan was only considered a PF because he got drafted into a team with David Robinson.

He played Center at Wake Forest and would have started at Center in the NBA if there was not a HOF Center there already.

ceiling raiser wrote:Positions don't matter all that much, but haven't seen a thread on this in a while.

What do you think?

Since Robinson retired (so past 2003), he played all meaningful minutes at centre. Nazr played buggar all minutes and then guys like Bonner/Diaw were listed as centre (and neither were anywhere near being centres). Duncan was listed as PF, but from 2003 thats a joke. IMO (theory only), they listed him as PF so he could be considered an all time great at that position. You put him at centre and it could be argued he doesnt even make top 5 (subjective I know).

Johnny Bball wrote:[url][/url]

UcanUwill wrote:

DaPessimist wrote:He played PF. So I think of him as a PF.

He really played center most of his life, he was just listed PF on paper.

Is that why so many people are mental. I could not figure it out. Robinson has been retired since 2002, Duncan has clearly been the centre since, even if you didn’t pick it up before that.

This!

He's not even a top10 center but he's a top pf so if you love him you see him as a pf

Lalouie wrote:He's not even a top10 center but he's a top pf so if you love him you see him as a pf

If he's top 10 player ever, then he's likely to be top 10 center, you know?

70sFan wrote:

Lalouie wrote:He's not even a top10 center but he's a top pf so if you love him you see him as a pf

If he's top 10 player ever, then he's likely to be top 10 center, you know?

Well, I agree that Duncan is a Top-10 Center... but Duncan is not a Top-10 player outside of Timmy-loving/Kobe-hating polls on RealGM... that do their best to put down Kobe because some Duncan fans here realize it's their best chance of putting Duncan into the all-time Top-10.

In chronological order: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe and Lebron.

That's 10 players right there who are ahead of him in the opinion of the rest of the world... as well as in the eyes of players. Anyone looking at this list should also notice there is no Power Forward in there. Hence the obsession with some to call Duncan a Power Forward even though he is a 7-foot, 250lb Center... so he can be put in the Top-10 as the supposed "best Power Forward of all-time". If Duncan is a Power Forward, then so is Hakeem... and since Hakeem is better than Duncan, we don't have any positional gaps to fill.

Tim Duncan is below those 10 and should be grouped with Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, etc. Perhaps, leading this group of players as the #11.

Best PF in the history of the game...