Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated?

[The_Hater]

None of the above?

It’s very difficult to win a championship with Lillard, PG or Butler as your best player. All of them are very good and hall of famers but nine of them have ever been regarded as a top 6-7 NBA player. They usually fall in that 9-14 range for the last few years.

Now if you have any of these players as tour #2, then that’s a surefire contender.

[TerryTate]

Cousins was a beast back in the day but he played on a bad Kings team that never sniffed the playoffs with him.

Hard to tell.

Injuries screwed him over. He would probably be the best Center in the NBA today if injuries didn't screw him over.

Injuries are also partly his fault.
Since he came into the NBA trainers suggested he cut some weight and lower his overall fat index. He never listened to them. Look at him now... he should be in his physical prime, but he looks worse than when he came into the league.

His knees shouldn't have been taking on that much weight especially with how explosive he used to play. It definitely takes a toll on the body for Cousins, it was his knees.

[rzzzzz]

Too bad he did get to a good situation straight out of school. He would have perfectly fit Philly’s one big need to make a run for it, but Collins was intimidated by Boogies reputation for losing his cool. I think even his Ky team mates talked about it.

[SF_Warriors]

Those pels teams with Davis/Holiday/Boogie were like one decent 3 and d wing away from being like a real contender. Not like, the favorites or anything, but like if things broke right they could've come out of the west. They were just putting it all together when he tore his Achilles. Not a ton of real big "what if's" as a pels fan but Boogie staying healthy is one of them. He gets the max and Davis probably stays for a few more seasons. Those guys loved playing together.

Probably the worst part about cousins going down that season, we missed out on seeing how he would have performed in the playoffs in his prime. Tallball seems to be making a bit of a comeback nowadays and him + AD could have been a force to reckon with in the postseason where things slowed down and players start getting worn down as well. Imagine frontcourts having to deal with both those guys while Jrue is doing his thing against the guards. I know the pels had a higher winning percentage without him, but I don't think anyone can reasonably come to the conclusion that mirotic would be a better option in the postseason than a healthy DC. Even if they werent successful it would still have been fun to watch.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Leadership is a skill
Attitude is a skill
Work Ethic is a skill
Maturity is a skill

Even in the annals of elastic statmongering that's a new claim.

Is it? Talk to anyone that manages people, anyone the builds a team. It's work that has to be honed.

You need to work on yourself, practice self discipline etc etc.

Duncan didn't just come out of the womb an amazing leader and franchise culture builder. Sure his parents, upbringing etc obviously had a lot to do with it. But I'm sure he's worked and honed those skills over time.

Oh, I don't dispute its value. I do dispute whether it has ever before, until this very convenient moment, suddenly cropped up in a basketball skills conversation.

[donnieme]

Where's the GIF of Boogie standing outside the three-point line and deliberately watching for an entire defensive possession?

This guy can't even be in the same sentence as "underrated." Doesn't deserve to be rated.

Even now he still has an attitude. I remember the Rockets announcers getting audibly irritated with his inability to stay disciplined during that stretch he got ejected twice in a week. Think it was the 2nd game. Dude knows he's on a tech and his team needs him and still gets into multiple petty altercations with roleplayers on the other team, then fans cry that the refs are after him further enabling this big baby of a manchild.

Don't see anyone making excuses for Dwight when he acts like a twit. Cousins is just supposed to get a free pass to be emotionally out of control. So so hard to feel sorry for his career arc when he isn't showing any kind of growth. Even with his decline he should be a hot commodity at vet min if he was a high character guy.

[John Murdoch]

His mentality really ruined him, reminds me of Prime Derrick Coleman

[bigbreakfast]

The "Tim Duncan game" where he was suddenly so exposed to you happened in his 3rd season when he was 22, not yet a superstar, and his team was embroiled in a scandal whereby its departing owners were intentionally trying to lose and steal the team out of town to another city, Major League style.

BTW, his TS% from his first year emerging under Mike Malone until the year he blew out his achilles:

Boogie Cousins Age 23-27 TS%
Age 23: .555
Age 24: .545
Age 25: .538
Age 26: .562
Age 27: .583

Tim Duncan Age 23-27 TS%
Age 23: .555
Age 24: .536
Age 25: .576
Age 26: .564
Age 27: .534

Luckily the Spurs were able to survive Duncan's chucking.

League average TS% was much lower in the 90s, 00s than it was in the 10s.... They literally had to change rules to make the league more scorer friendly. To be honest both Tim Duncan and KG were not particularly efficient but in their primes they played in an inefficient era, their efficiency was still generally average-above average for their era and their primary value was on defense not offense something which Cousins is a zero at at best....

In no dimension was Cousins a good passer. He averaged more turnovers than assists, he got assists in virtue of dominating the ball way too much.

You need to take your goggles off when I watched Cousins play I saw a ball dominant big who did not score efficiently or pass the ball well. He was a black hole on offense and did not play much defense.

He probably does a bit better on defense if he plays on a better franchise not the laughably bad Kings but his offensive flaws would not suddenly improve.

I honestly find it hilarious that people can even compare him to Embiid and Jokic let alone Tim Duncan.

Embiid is obviously a far better defender and actually a better scorer as well though he has injury concerns.
Jokic is way more efficient than Cousins ever was while having fewer turnovers, being less ball dominant and like 2x Cousins assist. He is also an iron man.
Neither is a good defender but Jokic is so much better than Cousins on offense its not even funny. He has less usage rate in his MVP season than Cousins has on average for his entire career.

This does not even factor in the off the court stuff yikes....

Cousins did not rack up more turnovers than assists PASSING. That's ignorance of his game.

He racked up large percentages of turnovers picking up offensive fouls (at least one a game as a rule), and as a player driving into traffic. A huge chunk of his turnovers were as a result of being a prolific offensive center, and one in an era where he was increasingly being set up further and further from the hoop than the centers of lore. They were not primarily as a passer.

In 2016-17, just to address his last full season before the injury, he drove the ball 8.9 times a game (a totally unheard of number for a center BTW -- no C was close, and only Giannis and LeBron amongst remotely "biggish" players were also in the Top 40) and in the process picked up 0.9TOs. He picked up another 0.8TO in the post, so that's 1.7 of his 3.7TO from pure offensive scoring plays. Those turnovers are part of him being a 25ppg scorer, not a 5apg passer.

As a passer Cousins was just subelite. Let's take a look at comparing him to Marc Gasol -- 2016-17 was Gasol's career best passing year. Both he and Cousins averaged 4.6apg that year. I'm also goign to throw in A.D. that year to show what a different style big looks like.

In the post 2016-17:
MGasol 10.7 postups 31.5pass% 5.9ast% 5.4TO%
Boogie 9.9 postups 29.7pass% 10.5ast% 8.3TO%
ADavis 6.5 postups 21.4pass% 3.3ast% 6.1TO%

Gasol and Boogie pass it roughly the same number of times (and both conveniently played exactly the same mpg too (34.2) off a similar number of postups. But Boogie's profile and Gasol's then split because while Marc is passing the ball, he's not creating assists nearly as often, nor is he taking chances. He's making more "system" passes around the horn or whatever. Boogie is creating almost twice as many assists, but at the cost of an uptick in TOs. Creating is the key word. He still has the better ast/TO ratio from that spot on the floor however, and in fact led the entire league in assists from the post that year.

A.D. of course is not much of a passer, and when he posted back then, which wasn't often, he was mostly trying to score.

the comparison you brought up was Cousins and Duncan... when challenged you went on and compared Cousins to Gasol and AD... although I will assume that that kind of granular data isn't easily found for Duncan's era and give you a pass there.

comparing raw stats across eras is misleading, parentheses added:

Boogie Cousins Age 23-27 TS
Age 23: .555 (league avg TS .541)
Age 24: .545 (league avg TS .534)
Age 25: .538 (league avg TS .541)
Age 26: .562 (league avg TS .552)
Age 27: .583 (league avg TS .556)

Tim Duncan Age 23-27 TS%
Age 23: .555 (league avg TS .523)
Age 24: .536 (league avg TS .518)
Age 25: .576 (league avg TS .520)
Age 26: .564 (league avg TS .519)
Age 27: .534 (league avg TS .516)

Duncan clearly had a better delta compared to league average, so your point that they're were the same caliber in terms of offensive efficiency is incorrect.

not to mention during those years Duncan played as a PF, so not exactly a completely apt comparison when discussing post passing. Qualitatively I think duncan passed out of the double well and was also a good outlet passer, although I'm not sure where to find data to quantify that. But I don't remember duncan doing crossovers at the 3 pt line, so... there's that? not that duncan needed to.

edit: the "duncan game" is a microcosmic representation as far as duncan vs cousins mental maturity comparisons go... it's like when a hyperactive small dog goes nuts and starts yapping at a calmer, much larger dog who just finds him to be a mere annoyance and not a real threat. I don't buy the his team was embroiled in a scandal excuse, the other players didn't have the same bursts of immaturity... I kinda buy the only 22 excuse, however, as you're the one that brought up tim duncan, duncan at 22 was infinitely more mature and level headed.