Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated?

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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#41 » by Pointgod » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:39 pm

Yes Cousins is hella underrated, even before the injuries. The real ones know.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#42 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:41 pm

sikma42 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
Please break down why you think he was low IQ. I never got that impression watching him. He was a good passing, played well positionally on defense and understood how to attack from multiple levels and in multiple ways from those levels.


He was a horrible defender, constantly out of position. We're talking about a mountain of a man with supreme athletic talent who in impact metrics consistently shows low to negative impact stats on defense. Nobody his size and as talented athletically as him should ever have a negative DRPM for example.

He's extremely talented as a passer...smart? No. Great hands (big and soft), great coordination, and to his credit he was a willing passer. Unfortunately, the guy was insanely irrational and emotional and he let his emotions get the best of him. This was a common theme on and off the court. And having met the guy back when he was in college at kentucky...he didn't come off better.


I don't think he was some supreme athletic talent. I do think he was extremely skilled. Sometimes perception plays a role in how we view the intersection of talent and skill.

It's weird that someone so constantly out of position would be one of the league leaders in charges taken..that takes anticipation and IQ, It doesn't track perfectly, but i never remember Cousins lost on defense. He just had athletic limitations at times but was okay, considering the load he had to carry on offense.


The guy was 6'10 and 260+ with great hands and touch...he couldn't run like Robinson or jump like MJ but athletically he's about as good as they get and his size alone should simply suck up space. And you're right to a degree...he was a weird mix of making great plays (charges, great passes) and then completely losing his mind the next play.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#43 » by Baddy Chuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:45 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:Hmm, I read that wrong.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01/on-off/2018

This is basketball reference's much easier to read and cleaner version that doesn't do weird stuff.

I have no idea what nba.com is doing in your screen shot. I'd have to look at the filters and then pray they made sense.

Yeah not sure tbh but if you want to compare NBA.com ones to yours theres literally no filter needed at all, just look up the on off and you're done.


sikma42 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:He averaged 5.4 ast and 5.0 TO. This shows that he was terrible passer and you must question his BBIQ because he tried to be the main ball distributor on a team with Jrue and Rondo. Question is did he not understood who should have the ball in his hands and make plays, or he was simply chasing stats.
Wait, so he choose that or the coach choose that? Its weird how we pick and choose who to give autonomy to with re to their playstyle.

Also, do we have a breakdown of those turnovers. Are they offensive fouls, travels or bad passes. I dont thibk anyone would Cousins was a horrible passer.

From that season:
Image
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#44 » by Pelon chingon » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:51 pm

Bornstellar wrote:No. If he was really as good as people thought he was he'd have had the Kings fighting for the playoffs instead of in the lottery every season


Talent wise he was superb but he had the mentality of a child.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#45 » by Johnny Tomala » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:55 pm

He was superstar. If he hadn't gotten injured Pelicans were capable of putting fight to Warriors. Shame that injuries ruined him. He should retire now IMO.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#46 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:58 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:Hmm, I read that wrong.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01/on-off/2018

This is basketball reference's much easier to read and cleaner version that doesn't do weird stuff.

I have no idea what nba.com is doing in your screen shot. I'd have to look at the filters and then pray they made sense.

Yeah not sure tbh but if you want to compare NBA.com ones to yours theres literally no filter needed at all, just look up the on off and you're done.


sikma42 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:He averaged 5.4 ast and 5.0 TO. This shows that he was terrible passer and you must question his BBIQ because he tried to be the main ball distributor on a team with Jrue and Rondo. Question is did he not understood who should have the ball in his hands and make plays, or he was simply chasing stats.
Wait, so he choose that or the coach choose that? Its weird how we pick and choose who to give autonomy to with re to their playstyle.

Also, do we have a breakdown of those turnovers. Are they offensive fouls, travels or bad passes. I dont thibk anyone would Cousins was a horrible passer.

From that season:
Image


I looked at NBA.com...I honestly hate how their system works. And given basketball reference is the source for most analytics pulls...I trust their data in that it's normalized and consistent, not that I don't trust nba.com, but I find it maddeningly confusing at times on tables and areas I don't use often, and this is one I don't use much.

Would love to know why the data's not consistent here though, I've never noticed more than just some oddities and noise separating the two.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#47 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:01 pm

sikma42 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
Please break down why you think he was low IQ. I never got that impression watching him. He was a good passing, played well positionally on defense and understood how to attack from multiple levels and in multiple ways from those levels.

He averaged 5.4 ast and 5.0 TO. This shows that he was terrible passer and you must question his BBIQ because he tried to be the main ball distributor on a team with Jrue and Rondo. Question is did he not understood who should have the ball in his hands and make plays, or he was simply chasing stats.
Wait, so he choose that or the coach choose that? Its weird how we pick and choose who to give autonomy to with re to their playstyle.

Also, do we have a breakdown of those turnovers. Are they offensive fouls, travels or bad passes. I dont thibk anyone would Cousins was a horrible passer.
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I'll never forget coach Cal talking about Cousins during UK's midnight maddness. There's my 7 foot point guard out there shooting 3's. I'm not sure any coach ever fully got through to him either.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#48 » by zeebneeb » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:06 pm

He is an ememotional time bomb that wreaks havoc on team moral, and stability. He has those personality traits. If your someone who has encountered this type of person, you know that choas is the order of the day, and getting anything done is contingent on that person being stable, emotionally.

This days are few, and far between for people like this. A perfect example of how a person's personality/demeanor can change the outlook for a group, is that of his polar opposite, Tim Duncan.

It is what it is. Talented as hell, emotionally unstable, and prone to self-destructive tendencies.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#49 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:21 pm

Yeah not sure underrated is the term I'd use. He's polarizing because of the mental side of the game. On the one hand, you want a passionate player; on the other, you don't want a ticking time bomb.

He's someone who got in his own way too much and in so doing wasted his considerable talent. Of course injuries played a part, but so too has his volatile temperament.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#50 » by Pelly24 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:23 pm

His injuries screwed him, but he peaked as an all-star kinda guy.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#51 » by UcanUwill » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:27 pm

Johnny Tomala wrote:He was superstar. If he hadn't gotten injured Pelicans were capable of putting fight to Warriors. Shame that injuries ruined him. He should retire now IMO.


He was never superstar. Talented and skilled, but a superstar?
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#52 » by Baddy Chuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:30 pm

To answer the question, yeah I think Boogie was underrated.

I think early in his career he was just bad. Coming out of college with some pretty sizeable expectations it was obvious he wasn't ready. To be honest this is where to me a lot of the "empty stats, can't win" stuff comes from. His first three years he was able to put up numbers but both he and his dogsh*t organization were just not good.

IMO 2013-14 he turned into a legitimately good player though. Kings finally got a real coach in Mike Malone and while they still stunk, they were putting together a semblance of an NBA product for the first time in Boogie's career. TBH I think that 13-14 year might have been one of his best years of his career and planted on just about any other team at that time could have changed a lot of minds of him. He was good.

14-15 was wild. They start off 9-6 and looking pretty good, Boogie doing his thing. He gets meningitis and is going to be out a few weeks and they literally fire Mike Malone out of nowhere. Ty Corbin comes in and obviously he's not the answer so they bring in George Karl. LOL is all I have to say about that. Boogie finishes out fine, not really building on the expectations of the previous year though. Karl is literally such a two faced loser and takes no accountability for his horrible coaching and even worse player management. Boogie definitely took a step back that 15-16 season and IMO a lot of that was due to George Karl.

16-17 the ties with the organization are obviously busted after the Karl non sense but with a new (pretty solid) coach in Joerger Boogie balls out. Being traded had some adjusting pains but overall Boogie was a once again a legitimately good player this season, probably his overall peak.

17-18 you can believe whatever you want I suppose. As someone who was pretty invested in watching that team I can give my personal opinion of saying that the AD/Boogie pairing was working and tweaks throughout the season were getting that team clicking. Then Boogie got hurt.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#53 » by Woodsanity » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:43 pm

No if anything he was overrated.

What are his issues?

Mediocre efficiency which is even more glaring given he was a big man, poor defense and very ball dominant. The poster boy of being an "empty stats" player.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#54 » by BelgradeNugget » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:31 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:Hmm, I read that wrong.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01/on-off/2018

This is basketball reference's much easier to read and cleaner version that doesn't do weird stuff.

I have no idea what nba.com is doing in your screen shot. I'd have to look at the filters and then pray they made sense.

Yeah not sure tbh but if you want to compare NBA.com ones to yours theres literally no filter needed at all, just look up the on off and you're done.


sikma42 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:He averaged 5.4 ast and 5.0 TO. This shows that he was terrible passer and you must question his BBIQ because he tried to be the main ball distributor on a team with Jrue and Rondo. Question is did he not understood who should have the ball in his hands and make plays, or he was simply chasing stats.
Wait, so he choose that or the coach choose that? Its weird how we pick and choose who to give autonomy to with re to their playstyle.

Also, do we have a breakdown of those turnovers. Are they offensive fouls, travels or bad passes. I dont thibk anyone would Cousins was a horrible passer.

From that season:
Image


Well in 2017-2018 season he played 48 games and averaged 1.7 passing TOs per game and 2.2 ball handling turnovers per game when his PGs were Jrue, Rondo and Jameer Nelson. Smart player would give them a ball and play off of them if they are better ballhandlers and passers than him.
If he was any good sholdn't a team with him AD, Jrue and Rondo be among the best in the league? And all of them had sucess in another teams as 2nd or 3rd options. But he was never successful. He had injuries so did other players. Some really smarts players find way to be useful for their teams even post their prime. Gasol helped Toronto win ring at 34. Bogut was devastated with injuries in carrier still halped GS win. Cousins never helped any team win anything that is why he is out of the league.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#55 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:03 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:To answer the question, yeah I think Boogie was underrated.

I think early in his career he was just bad. Coming out of college with some pretty sizeable expectations it was obvious he wasn't ready. To be honest this is where to me a lot of the "empty stats, can't win" stuff comes from. His first three years he was able to put up numbers but both he and his dogsh*t organization were just not good.

IMO 2013-14 he turned into a legitimately good player though. Kings finally got a real coach in Mike Malone and while they still stunk, they were putting together a semblance of an NBA product for the first time in Boogie's career. TBH I think that 13-14 year might have been one of his best years of his career and planted on just about any other team at that time could have changed a lot of minds of him. He was good.

14-15 was wild. They start off 9-6 and looking pretty good, Boogie doing his thing. He gets meningitis and is going to be out a few weeks and they literally fire Mike Malone out of nowhere. Ty Corbin comes in and obviously he's not the answer so they bring in George Karl. LOL is all I have to say about that. Boogie finishes out fine, not really building on the expectations of the previous year though. Karl is literally such a two faced loser and takes no accountability for his horrible coaching and even worse player management. Boogie definitely took a step back that 15-16 season and IMO a lot of that was due to George Karl.

16-17 the ties with the organization are obviously busted after the Karl non sense but with a new (pretty solid) coach in Joerger Boogie balls out. Being traded had some adjusting pains but overall Boogie was a once again a legitimately good player this season, probably his overall peak.

17-18 you can believe whatever you want I suppose. As someone who was pretty invested in watching that team I can give my personal opinion of saying that the AD/Boogie pairing was working and tweaks throughout the season were getting that team clicking. Then Boogie got hurt.


He's a 4x allstar and a 2x all nba second team player. He was seen as a top 15 player in 15 and 16. Meanwhile impact metrics don't even him on the first page of most lists.

So the best stats we have, indicate Cousins was putting up empty stats because things like on/off aren't painting the picture of a star that his box metrics do. He was imo a low level allstar which would make him overrated generally. For him to be overrated you'd have to think he was a legit top 10 guy and maybe pushing into the top 5 discussion.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#56 » by sikma42 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:12 pm

BelgradeNugget wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:Hmm, I read that wrong.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01/on-off/2018

This is basketball reference's much easier to read and cleaner version that doesn't do weird stuff.

I have no idea what nba.com is doing in your screen shot. I'd have to look at the filters and then pray they made sense.

Yeah not sure tbh but if you want to compare NBA.com ones to yours theres literally no filter needed at all, just look up the on off and you're done.


sikma42 wrote:Wait, so he choose that or the coach choose that? Its weird how we pick and choose who to give autonomy to with re to their playstyle.

Also, do we have a breakdown of those turnovers. Are they offensive fouls, travels or bad passes. I dont thibk anyone would Cousins was a horrible passer.

From that season:
Image


Well in 2017-2018 season he played 48 games and averaged 1.7 passing TOs per game and 2.2 ball handling turnovers per game when his PGs were Jrue, Rondo and Jameer Nelson. Smart player would give them a ball and play off of them if they are better ballhandlers and passers than him.
If he was any good sholdn't a team with him AD, Jrue and Rondo be among the best in the league? And all of them had sucess in another teams as 2nd or 3rd options. But he was never successful. He had injuries so did other players. Some really smarts players find way to be useful for their teams even post their prime. Gasol helped Toronto win ring at 34. Bogut was devastated with injuries in carrier still halped GS win. Cousins never helped any team win anything that is why he is out of the league.


1) DC is not the coach.

2) He never played a full healthy season with thse guys. We dont know what would happen

3) DC was hit by injuries harder than almost anyone could imagine. After the injuries there was nothing left he could contribute (he could barely move). After the injuries, Kobe didn't play well. Doesn't change what he was when healthy. Also, Bogut was a talented guy too that never truly developed. Maybe if he put in the skill work that Cousins did, he might have had a better career himself.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#57 » by SF_Warriors » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:13 pm

Good player but not anywhere close to superstar level like Embiid/Jokic. Some of it had to do with being in Sac for so many years, and some of it due to the mentality/lack of BBIQ. The guy just forced it too much to the detriment of his team at times. I remember in the 2016 olympics he lost his starting spot because he couldnt really play within the team concept and was hurting them defensively. Personally, I don't hold him in higher regard than say, KAT.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#58 » by jazzfan1971 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:17 pm

I have him rated #1.




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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#59 » by Nate505 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:19 pm

Not at whining and crying about everything. There he's properly rated.
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Re: Is DeMarcus Cousins Underrated? 

Post#60 » by BelgradeNugget » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:36 pm

sikma42 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:Yeah not sure tbh but if you want to compare NBA.com ones to yours theres literally no filter needed at all, just look up the on off and you're done.



From that season:
Image


Well in 2017-2018 season he played 48 games and averaged 1.7 passing TOs per game and 2.2 ball handling turnovers per game when his PGs were Jrue, Rondo and Jameer Nelson. Smart player would give them a ball and play off of them if they are better ballhandlers and passers than him.
If he was any good sholdn't a team with him AD, Jrue and Rondo be among the best in the league? And all of them had sucess in another teams as 2nd or 3rd options. But he was never successful. He had injuries so did other players. Some really smarts players find way to be useful for their teams even post their prime. Gasol helped Toronto win ring at 34. Bogut was devastated with injuries in carrier still halped GS win. Cousins never helped any team win anything that is why he is out of the league.


1) DC is not the coach.

2) He never played a full healthy season with thse guys. We dont know what would happen

3) DC was hit by injuries harder than almost anyone could imagine. After the injuries there was nothing left he could contribute (he could barely move). After the injuries, Kobe didn't play well. Doesn't change what he was when healthy. Also, Bogut was a talented guy too that never truly developed. Maybe if he put in the skill work that Cousins did, he might have had a better career himself.


1) Had a number of good coaches, but was never successful
2) We know that they were better with Mirotic than him. That year they were 27-21 (.563) before his injurie, 21-13 (.618) after
3) Bogut was a talented player that never truly developed because of injuries, still find way to contribute to great team. Boogie was never able to help team win. Any team.

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