Equivalent of Simmons in other sports

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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#21 » by snaquille oatmeal » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:42 pm

Antonio Brown great talent on the court, flawed off the court :dontknow:
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#22 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:34 pm

EasternHeretic wrote:Who is someone similarly talented and flawed? Can be unplayable in both a good and bad way. Is an excellent player even with their weaknesses, that if addressed, would put them at an MVP level, but never seems to cares about improving in that direction.


Well, to me he's got the yips along with a problematic ego that prevents him from working on his issues, and I don't actually think this is all that unique. It's just rare in the sense that he's already established as an all-star. Normally these issues come out before guys truly make it, because the biggest pressure is trying to establish yourself as someone worthy of big contrasts typically, not something that occurs after you're set for life.

I don't know about a specific example, but I do think that the sport of baseball is filled with these stories. Billy Beane - Oakland A's GM, known for Moneyball - was actually a high profile bust as a prospect. Had the body of baseball megastar, but got in his own head as a hitter and never really made it until he took a position where he didn't actually have to play on the field.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#23 » by Harry Garris » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:26 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
SharpyShuffle wrote:Timo Warner is kind of close. Can do everything offensively in soccer except shoot (and stay onside). Is he was even an average shot he'd be one of the best in the world.

But he actually *tries* to shoot, he's just bad at it. It's hard to think of people who just refuse to perform, or develop, the most basic skill of their sport.


Dribbling is the most basic skill of basketball by far.


That's for sure. Shooting was not one of the "basic" skills of basketball for a long time, although that's changing now. When I was growing up dribbling, passing, defense, rebounding, finishing at the basket, and how to run plays were all taught to us well before shooting.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#24 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:33 pm

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Antonio Brown great talent on the court, flawed off the court :dontknow:


Also way more talented than Simmons and achieved way more than him.

I don't think the comparison works.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#25 » by falcolombardi » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:38 pm

Ruzious wrote:
SUPERVILLAIN wrote:Billy Hamilton (MLB). He basically do it all but hit.

Good defender, good base runner, but can't hit.

Baseball players coming up are rated on 5 tools - hitting, power, speed, defense, and arm. Hamilton would be labelled a 2 tool player.

I'll go with Evgeny Kuznetsov of the Caps - a super talent who seems like he should score 40 goals a season but doesn't look for his shot enough.


i am not an expert in baseball but is not the 5 tools thingh outdated? at least that is what they sayy in moneyball

that they no longer focus on speed or power or base stealing and instead go for hitting stats like WAR
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#26 » by MrGoat » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:58 pm

Vince Young
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#27 » by DCasey91 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:03 pm

In terms of talent?

Israel Folau - Still better than all of them in the end but he had GOAT potential, still had big time results.

Nick Kyrgios - Nick is more skillful though

Marat Safin - Got in between talent and results. He actually put it together and won but it was short lived though 2000 was incredible stuff.

All headcases, all underachieved relative to their talent. Ben is actually bottom of that list funnily enough
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#28 » by DCasey91 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:09 pm



Brownie points for knowing how old he is here.

One of the most talented sportsmen in the world ever.

1:17 wow speechless!

5:45 yeah nah f that even if he was a kid

7:20 yeah you see that scouts are putting him right at the top of the list. Jesus

Izzy was something else.

Man USA and the rest of the world didn’t watch this freak talent enough. If he played a US sport he would have been a global mega star. He had the special stuff by the bucket load.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#29 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:01 am

falcolombardi wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
SUPERVILLAIN wrote:Billy Hamilton (MLB). He basically do it all but hit.

Good defender, good base runner, but can't hit.

Baseball players coming up are rated on 5 tools - hitting, power, speed, defense, and arm. Hamilton would be labelled a 2 tool player.

I'll go with Evgeny Kuznetsov of the Caps - a super talent who seems like he should score 40 goals a season but doesn't look for his shot enough.


i am not an expert in baseball but is not the 5 tools thingh outdated? at least that is what they sayy in moneyball

that they no longer focus on speed or power or base stealing and instead go for hitting stats like WAR

Nope, but Moneyball might be. Stolen bases aren't particularly important, but speed is extremely important.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#30 » by falcolombardi » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:26 am

Ruzious wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Baseball players coming up are rated on 5 tools - hitting, power, speed, defense, and arm. Hamilton would be labelled a 2 tool player.

I'll go with Evgeny Kuznetsov of the Caps - a super talent who seems like he should score 40 goals a season but doesn't look for his shot enough.


i am not an expert in baseball but is not the 5 tools thingh outdated? at least that is what they sayy in moneyball

that they no longer focus on speed or power or base stealing and instead go for hitting stats like WAR

Nope, but Moneyball might be. Stolen bases aren't particularly important, but speed is extremely important.


how so? i thought stats became preminemt in baseball as opposed to eye test

that it didnt matter how strong or fast but how often you get in base regardless of yo u hoy get there
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#31 » by LivingLegend » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:57 am

TheGOATWill wrote:Football fans watched him last night. Lamar Jackson. Elite athlete but everything about his passing motion is still off. Feet, ball position, release...everything. In year 4. Throws the ball downfield once in a blue moon. For every downfield throw 10 others are check downs or wildly off target.


I was actually going to say Cam Newton. Hes a guy who has special physical abilities but is a mental midget, cares too much about his 'celebrity status' and largely has been known for not being able to adapt/work on flaws.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#32 » by Pennebaker » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:01 am

EasternHeretic wrote:Who is someone similarly talented and flawed? Can be unplayable in both a good and bad way. Is an excellent player even with their weaknesses, that if addressed, would put them at an MVP level, but never seems to cares about improving in that direction.


Simmons is like Tom Brady. Super one dimensional.

Brady can only pass and that's it - he can't do anything else in football but throw the football.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#33 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:21 am

falcolombardi wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
i am not an expert in baseball but is not the 5 tools thingh outdated? at least that is what they sayy in moneyball

that they no longer focus on speed or power or base stealing and instead go for hitting stats like WAR

Nope, but Moneyball might be. Stolen bases aren't particularly important, but speed is extremely important.


how so? i thought stats became preminemt in baseball as opposed to eye test

that it didnt matter how strong or fast but how often you get in base regardless of yo u hoy get there

I think you're conflating ideas there. Stats are measurements of performance used to evaluate players and to strategize. They aren't the actual performance of the game. Speed remains important in virtually every phase of the game, and I'm sure any good stats person who understands the game would confirm that. Otherwise, it'd be like The Jetsons, and robots would be playing the game.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#34 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:31 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Antonio Brown great talent on the court, flawed off the court :dontknow:


I don’t know. Brown in his prime had very little questions about his on field ability and impact. There was no major flaw in his game like there is with Simmons.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#35 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:34 am

Pennebaker wrote:
EasternHeretic wrote:Who is someone similarly talented and flawed? Can be unplayable in both a good and bad way. Is an excellent player even with their weaknesses, that if addressed, would put them at an MVP level, but never seems to cares about improving in that direction.


Simmons is like Tom Brady. Super one dimensional.

Brady can only pass and that's it - he can't do anything else in football but throw the football.


Haha what? So Simmons is the GOAT? You do realize Brady’s job is to read defenses, run the offense, and throw the football. Brady is all time great in all of those areas. Calling a QB one dimensional because he only throws the ball is just, I don’t know the words to describe that haha.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#36 » by CwDogg » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:56 am

Chuck Knoblauch
Rick Ankiel
Chris Davis (Baltimore Oriroles)
Tim Tebow
Trindon Holiday
Renaldo Nehemiah (in the NFL)
Chris Byrd (boxer)
Terry Norris (boxer)
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#37 » by MrGoat » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:00 am

LivingLegend wrote:
TheGOATWill wrote:Football fans watched him last night. Lamar Jackson. Elite athlete but everything about his passing motion is still off. Feet, ball position, release...everything. In year 4. Throws the ball downfield once in a blue moon. For every downfield throw 10 others are check downs or wildly off target.


I was actually going to say Cam Newton. Hes a guy who has special physical abilities but is a mental midget, cares too much about his 'celebrity status' and largely has been known for not being able to adapt/work on flaws.


I said Vince Young. Cam actually has some passing ability. Vince had all of the physical gifts but just wasn't a passing threat which is more in line with Simmons and his shooting woes
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#38 » by LivingLegend » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:17 am

MrGoat wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
TheGOATWill wrote:Football fans watched him last night. Lamar Jackson. Elite athlete but everything about his passing motion is still off. Feet, ball position, release...everything. In year 4. Throws the ball downfield once in a blue moon. For every downfield throw 10 others are check downs or wildly off target.


I was actually going to say Cam Newton. Hes a guy who has special physical abilities but is a mental midget, cares too much about his 'celebrity status' and largely has been known for not being able to adapt/work on flaws.


I said Vince Young. Cam actually has some passing ability. Vince had all of the physical gifts but just wasn't a passing threat which is more in line with Simmons and his shooting woes


Vince Youngs flaws wernt from a work ethic standpoint though, he just couldnt adapt to the NFL from college and he couldnt replicate that success.

Simmons 3 biggest knocks are 1) Mental toughness 2) Work Ethic/Desire to Improve and 3) Cares a LOT about life outside the lines.

Those 3 things fit Cam Newton absolutely perfectly. Simmons/Newton rest on their laurels, try to 'out talent' everybody because they could in college and both care too much about being famous and because of that--rub some of their teammates the wrong way.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#39 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:06 am

Pennebaker wrote:
EasternHeretic wrote:Who is someone similarly talented and flawed? Can be unplayable in both a good and bad way. Is an excellent player even with their weaknesses, that if addressed, would put them at an MVP level, but never seems to cares about improving in that direction.


Simmons is like Tom Brady. Super one dimensional.

Brady can only pass and that's it - he can't do anything else in football but throw the football.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#40 » by Pennebaker » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:50 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
EasternHeretic wrote:Who is someone similarly talented and flawed? Can be unplayable in both a good and bad way. Is an excellent player even with their weaknesses, that if addressed, would put them at an MVP level, but never seems to cares about improving in that direction.


Simmons is like Tom Brady. Super one dimensional.

Brady can only pass and that's it - he can't do anything else in football but throw the football.


Haha what? So Simmons is the GOAT? You do realize Brady’s job is to read defenses, run the offense, and throw the football. Brady is all time great in all of those areas. Calling a QB one dimensional because he only throws the ball is just, I don’t know the words to describe that haha.


It's called true.

Some quarterbacks are great runners and some can play other positions - some play WR, for example. Brady is the epitome of one dimensional. He can barely even run. Giselle has a faster 40 time. But that's the nature of football and that position - QBs can be one dimensional statues and still win.
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