Equivalent of Simmons in other sports

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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#61 » by Edrees » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:33 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
You still learn to dribble a ball first when you're learning the game. Basic doesn't mean it's the easiest to master.


I think basic is a pretty subjective word to use here, so I can understand it going either way


I guess the most basic skill that you're taught first is my view. cause if you can't dribble you can't play basketball at all. I mean ok there might be a few huge dudes who are freaky exceptions, but even then...you're not playing basketball a 12 year old without some kind of dribbling ability.

Otherwise are you saying it's passing? But then you get taught different types of passes as a kid. The bounce pass is kinda hard to learn but the chest pass requires more strength which you might not have developing.


Well personally I learned to shoot before I could dribble. When I was in 1st, 2nd grade people would pass it to me and I"d shoot and make it sometimes. I didn't learn to dribble for awhile, but I had no trouble hitting a shot from close enough. Only one guy on the team needed to know how to dribble really. This wasn't on a real team though, just playground basketball, which is why I consider it the most *basic.* I do understand your perspective though and can't really argue against it.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#62 » by dc » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:35 pm

Best comparison would be any baseball player who is very good at most things (fielding/throwing/running/hitting for power), but poor at hitting for average or with runners in scoring position.

Even then, you would have a hard time finding a player like that. Simmons' level of non-shooting is equivalent to a below .200 hitter in baseball, and there aren't many below .200 hitters who get regular playing time.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#63 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:41 pm

Edrees wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
I think basic is a pretty subjective word to use here, so I can understand it going either way


I guess the most basic skill that you're taught first is my view. cause if you can't dribble you can't play basketball at all. I mean ok there might be a few huge dudes who are freaky exceptions, but even then...you're not playing basketball a 12 year old without some kind of dribbling ability.

Otherwise are you saying it's passing? But then you get taught different types of passes as a kid. The bounce pass is kinda hard to learn but the chest pass requires more strength which you might not have developing.


Well personally I learned to shoot before I could dribble. When I was in 1st, 2nd grade people would pass it to me and I"d shoot and make it sometimes. I didn't learn to dribble for awhile, but I had no trouble hitting a shot from close enough. Only one guy on the team needed to know how to dribble really. This wasn't on a real team though, just playground basketball, which is why I consider it the most *basic.* I do understand your perspective though and can't really argue against it.


You didn't know HOW to dribble? Like the rules? You couldn't dribble a ball by yourself?

And if you could shoot in grade 1, good on you. It's often just a strength issue with kids that age.

And street ball? Man I learned in the tough world of driveway ball...don't dent dad's car or you're screwed! lol
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#64 » by dorulo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:44 pm

it would be someone like a striker able to defend and make assists, but not to score.
Alen Boksic is the appropriate equivalent player in history of football, or Karim Benzema now
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#65 » by dorulo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:52 pm

dc wrote:Best comparison would be any baseball player who is very good at most things (fielding/throwing/running/hitting for power), but poor at hitting for average or with runners in scoring position.

Even then, you would have a hard time finding a player like that. Simmons' level of non-shooting is equivalent to a below .200 hitter in baseball, and there aren't many below .200 hitters who get regular playing time.


someone like the current Cody Bellinger
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#66 » by HabsAndDubs » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:53 pm

The best and kindest comparison I can make for him in hockey is Carey Price at the same age. Touted as a future top 3-5 goalie in the league ever since he was 18, played some really big games at a very young age (goalies typically mature late and only become regulars at 25ish), and people could not stop telling you how young he was, and how all these advance stats pointed to how great he already was at 21-22. And on ice he had some jaw dropping, dominating performances, but so many raw moments, he’s been benched in the playoffs, he was extremely controversial among fans for this reason, and at some point, half the city was ready to ship him out of town with the first good offer. For a stretch in like 2008-2011, most people were convinced he was an overrated, mediocre goalie who was hanging on because of his name.

Luckily we kept him, he reached his potential, and spent his peak as one of the best goalies in the league, including one season where he was near consensus best player in the league.

Basically, like if Ben Simmons now started shooting the ball more, averaged a 18-20ppg triple double at his peak, and was able to lead his team to some deep playoff runs.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#67 » by dc » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:59 pm

dorulo wrote:
dc wrote:Best comparison would be any baseball player who is very good at most things (fielding/throwing/running/hitting for power), but poor at hitting for average or with runners in scoring position.

Even then, you would have a hard time finding a player like that. Simmons' level of non-shooting is equivalent to a below .200 hitter in baseball, and there aren't many below .200 hitters who get regular playing time.


someone like the current Cody Bellinger


Yeah, Bellinger is a .159 (!!) hitter and is somehow still an everyday player. Dodgers are just hoping he somehow regains a shadow of his MVP form.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#68 » by Tracymcgoaty » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:11 pm

I'd say Balotelli but unlike Simmons Balotelli has actually delivered plenty.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#69 » by jokeboy86 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:36 pm

Clay Davis wrote:Deontay Wilder lol

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I second this. Guy’s a great athlete who’s made a lot of money and won some belts but is severely flawed and after one loss turned into a headcase. And he’s still lacking basic boxing fundamentals. Cant imagine what another loss does to his psyche
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#70 » by giannis and 1 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:34 am

EasternHeretic wrote:Who is someone similarly talented and flawed? Can be unplayable in both a good and bad way. Is an excellent player even with their weaknesses, that if addressed, would put them at an MVP level, but never seems to cares about improving in that direction.

A hockey player that can’t skate

A qb that can’t throw the ball

etc.
still learning the game

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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#71 » by Tomjas » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:11 am

jokeboy86 wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:Deontay Wilder lol

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I second this. Guy’s a great athlete who’s made a lot of money and won some belts but is severely flawed and after one loss turned into a headcase. And he’s still lacking basic boxing fundamentals. Cant imagine what another loss does to his psyche


Not really

Simmons was a child prodigy while Wilder started boxing at 20

Wilder was protected for his entire career with his best win being against Ortiz whom most suspect of being years older than advertised

Even his defence against Fury was opportunistic as Tyson had well documented personal issues beforehand

He’s the epitome of a hypejob
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#72 » by Ugalde » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:40 am

i really don’t get why we talk about this guy so much. he’ll be irrelevant in 3 years
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#73 » by Ugalde » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:48 am

Tim Tebow. Young player who showed potential. Has all the physical traits but just can’t throw accurate like Simmons can’t shoot.

Simmons will be in the league but will be totally irrelevant in a few years like Tebow.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#74 » by CobraCommander » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:14 am

jokeboy86 wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:Deontay Wilder lol

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app


I second this. Guy’s a great athlete who’s made a lot of money and won some belts but is severely flawed and after one loss turned into a headcase. And he’s still lacking basic boxing fundamentals. Cant imagine what another loss does to his psyche


Best one on the thread...does one thing great...but it ain’t boxing..it’s punching. We waited for him to learn how to box but before he could, he was actually a champion. Way before he was actually good at his craft and now he is exposed for real and it’s so obvious that he looks exactly like the champion we expect but alas - Jokic is mvp...I mean Tyson fury...a man that looks less like the best prize fighter on earth and more like a old firefighter.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#75 » by Pennebaker » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:14 am

Asianiac_24 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Haha what? So Simmons is the GOAT? You do realize Brady’s job is to read defenses, run the offense, and throw the football. Brady is all time great in all of those areas. Calling a QB one dimensional because he only throws the ball is just, I don’t know the words to describe that haha.


It's called true.

Some quarterbacks are great runners and some can play other positions - some play WR, for example. Brady is the epitome of one dimensional. He can barely even run. Giselle has a faster 40 time. But that's the nature of football and that position - QBs can be one dimensional statues and still win.


The difference is, Tom Brady has extremely good work ethics, and the only reason he isn't running or playing other positions is because he just isn't physically gifted enough to do all that. Despite his physical stature (relatively speaking to other NFL players), he was able to accomplish amazing results year after year. Tom Brady is more like a Stephen Curry.

Ben Simmons with Tom Brady's work ethics would be MVP level. Unfortunately he isn't even close to that.


I'm just talking about being super one dimensional and that's Tom Brady. Curry is more versatile than Brady.
Simmons is actually a more versatile basketball player than Brady is a football player.

This is why it irks me when people say that Brady is the greatest football player of all time. No, he's the greatest quarterback of all time and he is disqualified from being the greatest football player of all time because if he couldn't throw he wouldn't even be in the NFL or any other professional football league.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#76 » by Dr Aki » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:18 am

Marouane Fellaini, when he played not-striker
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#77 » by Marcus_Shart » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:55 am

Pennebaker wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
Simmons is like Tom Brady. Super one dimensional.

Brady can only pass and that's it - he can't do anything else in football but throw the football.


Haha what? So Simmons is the GOAT? You do realize Brady’s job is to read defenses, run the offense, and throw the football. Brady is all time great in all of those areas. Calling a QB one dimensional because he only throws the ball is just, I don’t know the words to describe that haha.


It's called true.

Some quarterbacks are great runners and some can play other positions - some play WR, for example. Brady is the epitome of one dimensional. He can barely even run. Giselle has a faster 40 time. But that's the nature of football and that position - QBs can be one dimensional statues and still win.


We all know the impetus behind your response is to prop Lebron up via downplaying Brady because you loathe the fact that many people consider Brady to be a greater all time athlete/sportsman than him.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#78 » by Marcus_Shart » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:01 am

Ugalde wrote:Tim Tebow. Young player who showed potential. Has all the physical traits but just can’t throw accurate like Simmons can’t shoot.

Simmons will be in the league but will be totally irrelevant in a few years like Tebow.


I can kinda see your point, but it's a major insult to Tebow considering Simmons biggest flaws stem from his lack of character, effort, and general non chalant approach to improving himself. Tebow is great in those respects he just doesn't have "it".
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#79 » by juanc » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:14 am

Nick Kyrgios comes to my mind.
Sooooo much talent, but both underachievers becouse of their head.
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Re: Equivalent of Simmons in other sports 

Post#80 » by DCasey91 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:01 am

juanc wrote:Nick Kyrgios comes to my mind.
Sooooo much talent, but both underachievers becouse of their head.


Yeah ironically Nick plays flawless tennis but that hasn’t been the case for years. He has more skill than Ben.

At least Safin (My comp for Nick) delivered (especially 2000) but still fell short of what his absurd talent was.

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