Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded

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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#141 » by Pachinko_ » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:23 am

Do they have any picks to give?
I know this gentleman in Oklahoma, a collector...
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#142 » by pr0wler » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:35 am

Antinomy wrote:If I were the Lakers, I’d have gambled on Wall instead of Westbrook.

Imo, you know Westbrook isn’t gonna work with Lebron & Davis on the floor. Atleast Wall might surprise you.


Definitely. Wall isn't nearly as much of a stat padder as Russ, is better on defense, and can shoot the 3-ball at least slightly better. I think he'd be a better fit with the Lakers for sure.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#143 » by EArl » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:10 am

Ben for Wall? Assuming the contracts work.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#144 » by Takingbaconback » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:52 am

GrindCityHustle wrote:Only team that could take him really is Orlando for Gary Harris and Terrence Ross

Houston would have to throw in future 1sts im sure

Also saw on another site

Los Angeles receives: John Wall
Houston receives: Eric Bledsoe, Luke Kennard, filler salary

seems like that might work with Leonard down and Wall can still score.


I'd rather have Bledsoe or Kennard over Wall if I were a contending team, let alone give both for him
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#145 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:01 am

seren wrote:Maybe for Westbrook once he implodes in LA

Gap on current Wall and Westbrook is maybe even bigger than in their primes and other guy won MVP... Wall is done as a player.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#146 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:50 am

Pharmcat wrote:Lakers should trade Westbrook for him


What benefit is there in such a trade but making your team worse (and Rockets being fringe playoff team again)? Westbrook was superior (and has been) player on every front of basketball last year.

Defense:
DRPM: Wall: -0.13. Westbrook: 0.05
Drtg: Wall: 116. Westbrook: 110
DBPM: Wall: -1.6. Westbrook: 0.8
D-LEBRON: Wall: -0.4. Westbrook: +1.2
D-RAPTOR: Wall: -1.3. Westbrook: -2.2.

Scoring:
TS%: Wall: +503. Westbrook: .509
Restricted area: Wall: 55.4%. Westbrook: 63.9%
In the paint (No RA): Wall: 35.8%. Westbrook: 40.7%
mid range: Wall: 31.7%. Westbrook: 38.1
3pt shot: Wall. 31.7%. Westbrook: 31.5% (Westbrook worse above the break. Better from the corner)
Jumpshot: Wall: 33%. Westbrook: 37.4%
Westbrook superior bankshot almost 63% accuracy with almost 1 per game attempt.


General offense:
Ortg: Wall: 99. Westbrook: 105
WS/48: Wall: -0.007. Westbrook: .075
OBPM: Wall: 1.4. Westbrook: 2.5
ORPM: Wall: 0.21. Westbrook: 1.99
O-LEBRON: wall +1.0. Westbrook: +1.8
O-RAPTOR: Wall: -1.0. Westbrook: +0.3
AST/TOV: Wall: 1.97. Westbrook: 2.43
Assists: Wall: 6.9. Westbrook: 11.7
Bball-index playmaking ranking ranked Westbrook as the 3rd best playmaker last year. No idea of Wall, didn't find him in top 20...

That is a lot of red for Wall. It would be absurd any team that would want to win would make a trade for Wall at this point of their careers. Even his defense that used to be solid haven't been there for 5+ years... And I'm comparing Wall to what RGM seems to think as a fringe top 25 player in the league.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#147 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:09 am

pr0wler wrote:
Johnny Tomala wrote:Rockets should never traded Westbrook for Wall. Westbrook is still very good, Wall is the worst contract in the league.


I feel like Westbrook is one of the most overrated players in the league. He hasn't been able to run an efficient offense for years, his defense is lacking, but his value gets inflated cause of all the triple doubles and accounting stats.

Even if it's true that he is still "very good", the Rockets are tanking anyway, and got a 1st rounder out of it in the process. Additionally, specifically this season, they needed to finish as low as possible because their pick is Top 4 protected. In the end, this strategy got the Rox got to keep their #2 pick Jalen Green who looks great so far.

He was 12th on ORPM in 2020 season and 5th in 2019. 3rd on 2018. 2nd on 2017. and 2nd on 2016. So to say he haven't led good offenses recently is nonsense (last year 33 with horrible offensive coach and roster. 15th for PGs so average offensive impact for a starter). His offensive impact has been great even if his own shooting has plummeted, his playmaking is just so valuable. And by all accounts he played decent defense last year (just on same lines or better than Curry judging by advanced statistics and eye test)

Wall (ORPM) ranking in the league:
21: 176th
20: -
19: 24
18: 16
17: 15
16: 8
Wall had similar impact in 2016 as Westbrook did in 2020... Everything else is clearly bellow.

You can say he is way overpaid which most/all will agree with (I certainly will). Supermax in generally has proven total disaster to teams. It allows one player to eat far too much of your salary and there are really only under handful of players in the league who can actually compensate such massive salary hit. After player has signed it it is very hard to get new assets for your team without gutting your roster totally benchless. Even Curry's supermax has been hindering them last few years on the free agent market and he is possibly the best player with the supermax in the league.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#148 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:41 am

Pennebaker wrote:
Reeko wrote:Where could he go that would view him as a starting PG? I hope he's comfortable with a bench role, because even most of the bad teams have young up and coming point guards.


He could be extremely valuable if he accepts the bench.

How can a player who makes 44 million be extremely valuable if he accepts bench role? That is even worse than starter role... Pay that absurd salary for someone who barely plays...
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#149 » by RalphWiggum » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:21 pm

There's been a few contracts in the past that I thought were untradeable and was wrong. I feel better about saying that about this one unless Houston unloads a lot of picks to sweeten the deal.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#150 » by LofJ » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:31 pm

So where is Wall going after he's bought out? I'm guessing Miami.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#151 » by queridiculo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:15 pm

Antinomy wrote:If I were the Lakers, I’d have gambled on Wall instead of Westbrook.

Imo, you know Westbrook isn’t gonna work with Lebron & Davis on the floor. Atleast Wall might surprise you.


I love Wall, but there's a gulf of production between the two, no question, I'd take Westbrook.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#152 » by pr0wler » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:17 pm

JN61 wrote:
pr0wler wrote:
Johnny Tomala wrote:Rockets should never traded Westbrook for Wall. Westbrook is still very good, Wall is the worst contract in the league.


I feel like Westbrook is one of the most overrated players in the league. He hasn't been able to run an efficient offense for years, his defense is lacking, but his value gets inflated cause of all the triple doubles and accounting stats.

Even if it's true that he is still "very good", the Rockets are tanking anyway, and got a 1st rounder out of it in the process. Additionally, specifically this season, they needed to finish as low as possible because their pick is Top 4 protected. In the end, this strategy got the Rox got to keep their #2 pick Jalen Green who looks great so far.

He was 12th on ORPM in 2020 season and 5th in 2019. 3rd on 2018. 2nd on 2017. and 2nd on 2016. So to say he haven't led good offenses recently is nonsense (last year 33 with horrible offensive coach and roster. 15th for PGs so average offensive impact for a starter). His offensive impact has been great even if his own shooting has plummeted, his playmaking is just so valuable. And by all accounts he played decent defense last year (just on same lines or better than Curry judging by advanced statistics and eye test)

Wall (ORPM) ranking in the league:
21: 176th
20: -
19: 24
18: 16
17: 15
16: 8
Wall had similar impact in 2016 as Westbrook did in 2020... Everything else is clearly bellow.

You can say he is way overpaid which most/all will agree with (I certainly will). Supermax in generally has proven total disaster to teams. It allows one player to eat far too much of your salary and there are really only under handful of players in the league who can actually compensate such massive salary hit. After player has signed it it is very hard to get new assets for your team without gutting your roster totally benchless. Even Curry's supermax has been hindering them last few years on the free agent market and he is possibly the best player with the supermax in the league.


Russ's cumulative ORating over the past 3 seasons with 3 respectable or better running mates is 105.3.

And including stats from 5 seasons ago I wouldn't describe as recent by any stretch of the imagination. Especially when discussing a player who has forgot how to shoot FT's for some reason, lost a step or two athletically, and has only seen his TS% decline over the years.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#153 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:31 pm

LofJ wrote:So where is Wall going after he's bought out? I'm guessing Miami.

says there no rush to buy him out so nowhere any time soon
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#154 » by RoyceDa59 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:58 pm

Look around the league there are so, so many talented guards it’s ridiculous. At Wall’s price and injury history he is easily a negative asset in my opinion.

Gonna be tough to find a suitable taker, interested to see how it plays out.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#155 » by TravisScott55 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:02 pm

Yikes, so much money to match.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#156 » by Pointgod » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:50 pm

JN61 wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:Lakers should trade Westbrook for him


What benefit is there in such a trade but making your team worse (and Rockets being fringe playoff team again)? Westbrook was superior (and has been) player on every front of basketball last year.

Defense:
DRPM: Wall: -0.13. Westbrook: 0.05
Drtg: Wall: 116. Westbrook: 110
DBPM: Wall: -1.6. Westbrook: 0.8
D-LEBRON: Wall: -0.4. Westbrook: +1.2
D-RAPTOR: Wall: -1.3. Westbrook: -2.2.

Scoring:
TS%: Wall: +503. Westbrook: .509
Restricted area: Wall: 55.4%. Westbrook: 63.9%
In the paint (No RA): Wall: 35.8%. Westbrook: 40.7%
mid range: Wall: 31.7%. Westbrook: 38.1
3pt shot: Wall. 31.7%. Westbrook: 31.5% (Westbrook worse above the break. Better from the corner)
Jumpshot: Wall: 33%. Westbrook: 37.4%
Westbrook superior bankshot almost 63% accuracy with almost 1 per game attempt.


General offense:
Ortg: Wall: 99. Westbrook: 105
WS/48: Wall: -0.007. Westbrook: .075
OBPM: Wall: 1.4. Westbrook: 2.5
ORPM: Wall: 0.21. Westbrook: 1.99
O-LEBRON: wall +1.0. Westbrook: +1.8
O-RAPTOR: Wall: -1.0. Westbrook: +0.3
AST/TOV: Wall: 1.97. Westbrook: 2.43
Assists: Wall: 6.9. Westbrook: 11.7
Bball-index playmaking ranking ranked Westbrook as the 3rd best playmaker last year. No idea of Wall, didn't find him in top 20...

That is a lot of red for Wall. It would be absurd any team that would want to win would make a trade for Wall at this point of their careers. Even his defense that used to be solid haven't been there for 5+ years... And I'm comparing Wall to what RGM seems to think as a fringe top 25 player in the league.


The Westbrook hate is just amazing. I don’t like the fit with the Lakers but there isn’t a thing that Wall brings to the table that’s better than Westbrook. Add that Wall is not healthy to boot. The idiocy on the general board is truly amazing sometimes.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#157 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:26 pm

pr0wler wrote:
JN61 wrote:
pr0wler wrote:
I feel like Westbrook is one of the most overrated players in the league. He hasn't been able to run an efficient offense for years, his defense is lacking, but his value gets inflated cause of all the triple doubles and accounting stats.

Even if it's true that he is still "very good", the Rockets are tanking anyway, and got a 1st rounder out of it in the process. Additionally, specifically this season, they needed to finish as low as possible because their pick is Top 4 protected. In the end, this strategy got the Rox got to keep their #2 pick Jalen Green who looks great so far.

He was 12th on ORPM in 2020 season and 5th in 2019. 3rd on 2018. 2nd on 2017. and 2nd on 2016. So to say he haven't led good offenses recently is nonsense (last year 33 with horrible offensive coach and roster. 15th for PGs so average offensive impact for a starter). His offensive impact has been great even if his own shooting has plummeted, his playmaking is just so valuable. And by all accounts he played decent defense last year (just on same lines or better than Curry judging by advanced statistics and eye test)

Wall (ORPM) ranking in the league:
21: 176th
20: -
19: 24
18: 16
17: 15
16: 8
Wall had similar impact in 2016 as Westbrook did in 2020... Everything else is clearly bellow.

You can say he is way overpaid which most/all will agree with (I certainly will). Supermax in generally has proven total disaster to teams. It allows one player to eat far too much of your salary and there are really only under handful of players in the league who can actually compensate such massive salary hit. After player has signed it it is very hard to get new assets for your team without gutting your roster totally benchless. Even Curry's supermax has been hindering them last few years on the free agent market and he is possibly the best player with the supermax in the league.


Russ's cumulative ORating over the past 3 seasons with 3 respectable or better running mates is 105.3.

And including stats from 5 seasons ago I wouldn't describe as recent by any stretch of the imagination. Especially when discussing a player who has forgot how to shoot FT's for some reason, lost a step or two athletically, and has only seen his TS% decline over the years.

I just posted he was still 12th a year ago and last year 33th. For a 3rd option who doesn't need to score nearly as much as before that seems like pretty great. What team has their 3rd option with such offensive ratings and (playmaking) impact as Westbrook? Pretty much only Brooklyn, and not in terms of playmaking. We are splitting hairs because some people doesn't like the fit on the paper of advanced statistics (just shooting biased advanced statistics basically). Or have irrational hate towards player that was partly responsible of their team slipping into half a decade worth of irrelevancy... While try play mental games that somehow Wall could be a better option... What in world... Wall is exactly same as Westbrook with every aspect of his game being worse...

Absolutely no winning team wants to take contract that is John Wall.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#158 » by HMFFL » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:39 pm

John Wall may have value to non true championship contender teams but that's about it. At this point, I don't see him offering anything positive, his contract is insane, so I look forward to see which team hr ends up on.


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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#159 » by RoyceDa59 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:41 pm

This has clippers all over it.
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Re: Shams wall and rockets working together to be traded 

Post#160 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:42 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:Do they have any picks to give?
I know this gentleman in Oklahoma, a collector...


It would be amazing if they traded for Wall, they would then have had all 3 of the more notorious contracts in the NBA.

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