Gordon re-signs with the nuggets !

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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#121 » by The Rebel » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:40 am

FNQ wrote:
youngthegiant wrote:It's an overpay, but Denver can't risk losing him for nothing like they did with Grant.


I would have risked it.. he was a large expiring that could have been salary filler (with MPJ/Hyland) if a star became available... and with Joker/Murray as a solid big 2, Denver might look like an attractive destination to a star who's bailing on their current team.

I'm not sure Gordon would get this on the open market and he'd still have signed this in the offseason, barring an excellent season. Wouldn't have played it safe personally but its not like this hurts DEN now, still looking like a top 3 team

You seem to be under the impression that the Nuggets are willing to trade MPJ, it was widely rumored that the Rockets were doing everything they possibly could to get him in the Harden deal and were turned down repeatedly, but yet you think they are going to add another young guy they like and a good fit at forward that they need for some random star? Are we talking Giannis? Other than that MPJ is basically untouchable, guys that put up 19 and 7 on 66.3% TS% as a 3rd option for 2/3rds of a year in their 2nd year do not get traded. Especially when they step up to 22.8 and 7 on 67.6% TS percentage when they are played as the 2nd option.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#122 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:47 am

Poetry-In-Motion wrote:Don't judge your opinion what is most popular. And with that being said I disagree on what the poll results might be. I am confident that people on RealGM forum don't classify Aaron Gordon as a net neutral starter. His main value is what he does on the defensive end on the floor. He guards the best big wing or forward on the opposing team. You may not see it on the box score, but you will definitely see it on any advanced metrics report. This is a squad that has been criticized and rightfully so for how weak they were defensively prior to getting Gordon. There's a reason why last summer Portland offered 2 first round picks for Gordon, and Orlando rejected it. It took a full rebuild where other players such as Fournier and Vucevic were dealt in which that Gordon was dealt as well for a pretty good package. He's a valued player.


I'm actually citing metrics, not RGM opinion, in why I'm saying AG is a net neutral player. Also don't think the Nuggets gave up a 'pretty good package' - it was a bad contract in Harris, a late 1st rd prospect, and a top 5 protected 1st that's 4 years down the road.

I definitely respect AG's ability on defense, I just think that's pretty much all he can offer, and he's much worse off-ball than on-ball. I dont know if Malone is still pushing the same schemes he was in GS, but if he is, AG's going to have a tough fit ahead of him, barring the opposing team running their offense through the SF/PF.

I'm not saying AG's useless, I'm saying the timing of extending him now at that value of a contract makes little sense when they likely would still have had the best offer at the end of the season.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#123 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:57 am

The Rebel wrote:
FNQ wrote:
youngthegiant wrote:It's an overpay, but Denver can't risk losing him for nothing like they did with Grant.


I would have risked it.. he was a large expiring that could have been salary filler (with MPJ/Hyland) if a star became available... and with Joker/Murray as a solid big 2, Denver might look like an attractive destination to a star who's bailing on their current team.

I'm not sure Gordon would get this on the open market and he'd still have signed this in the offseason, barring an excellent season. Wouldn't have played it safe personally but its not like this hurts DEN now, still looking like a top 3 team

You seem to be under the impression that the Nuggets are willing to trade MPJ, it was widely rumored that the Rockets were doing everything they possibly could to get him in the Harden deal and were turned down repeatedly, but yet you think they are going to add another young guy they like and a good fit at forward that they need for some random star? Are we talking Giannis? Other than that MPJ is basically untouchable, guys that put up 19 and 7 on 66.3% TS% as a 3rd option for 2/3rds of a year in their 2nd year do not get traded. Especially when they step up to 22.8 and 7 on 67.6% TS percentage when they are played as the 2nd option.


Not really gonna dwell on this much but no one is untouchable, and if the Nuggets didn't meet lofty expectations and a perfect fit of a star became available - lets say a Paul George - then I'd imagine MPJ is on the block instantly, especially with the large contracts the smaller market Nuggets have added recently.

Not gonna put much stock in a deal that never had legs to being with, as Harden didnt want to be traded there. So of course its in the best interest of all involved to deny that anyone was ever involved in a deal.

All that said, I'm not against your analysis of MPJ at all. Hell I was trying to convince a lot of Nuggets fans off the ledge when they drafted him (the back issue was way overblown).. I'm a huge fan and I thought the Nuggets should keep him at all costs. That was before this deal though.. because now if I'm MPJ I'm still taking nothing less than a full max. But if a deal popped up where I could PG13 for him, who I think is as good offensively and of course worlds better defensively, I'd sell out to make that happen. As good as MPJ could be, Jokic is arguably the best player in the world right now and everything should be on the table to get him a title. And if that means shopping MPJ for a more balanced superstar or even Murray for the same, I'd be all about it.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#124 » by The Rebel » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:07 am

FNQ wrote:
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:Don't judge your opinion what is most popular. And with that being said I disagree on what the poll results might be. I am confident that people on RealGM forum don't classify Aaron Gordon as a net neutral starter. His main value is what he does on the defensive end on the floor. He guards the best big wing or forward on the opposing team. You may not see it on the box score, but you will definitely see it on any advanced metrics report. This is a squad that has been criticized and rightfully so for how weak they were defensively prior to getting Gordon. There's a reason why last summer Portland offered 2 first round picks for Gordon, and Orlando rejected it. It took a full rebuild where other players such as Fournier and Vucevic were dealt in which that Gordon was dealt as well for a pretty good package. He's a valued player.


I'm actually citing metrics, not RGM opinion, in why I'm saying AG is a net neutral player. Also don't think the Nuggets gave up a 'pretty good package' - it was a bad contract in Harris, a late 1st rd prospect, and a top 5 protected 1st that's 4 years down the road.

I definitely respect AG's ability on defense, I just think that's pretty much all he can offer, and he's much worse off-ball than on-ball. I dont know if Malone is still pushing the same schemes he was in GS, but if he is, AG's going to have a tough fit ahead of him, barring the opposing team running their offense through the SF/PF.

I'm not saying AG's useless, I'm saying the timing of extending him now at that value of a contract makes little sense when they likely would still have had the best offer at the end of the season.


LMAO, you can use all the metrics you like, but seeing how you don't even know the offensive scheme the Nuggets run you obviously should probably not be commenting. It is no wonder you think the Nuggets would be so willing to give up their young guys, you don't know a damn thing about them.

The Nuggets were in the western conference finals a year ago while missing their starting SF, having their starting SG hobbled and missing 5 games in the playoffs, and depending on a rookie MPJ to be their only bench scorer. They made it to the 2nd round of this year's playoffs with Murray out, their starting SG in Barton missing all but 2 games, their backup SG missing the playoffs, and playing a guy they signed off the street major minutes in their back court.

To act like the Nuggets are some run of the mill 6-8th seed is laughable.

ON offense all they need Gordon to do is finish wide open dunks/layups and hit the occasional spot up shot to spread the floor, with his defense that would be a considerable upgrade over the Millsap that we had starting after the covid shutdown. If Murray is even close to the player he was prior to injury and with the growth of MPJ than anybody who doesn't think that Gordon makes them a contender should maybe pay attention to teams other than their own.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#125 » by The Rebel » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:10 am

FNQ wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
FNQ wrote:
I would have risked it.. he was a large expiring that could have been salary filler (with MPJ/Hyland) if a star became available... and with Joker/Murray as a solid big 2, Denver might look like an attractive destination to a star who's bailing on their current team.

I'm not sure Gordon would get this on the open market and he'd still have signed this in the offseason, barring an excellent season. Wouldn't have played it safe personally but its not like this hurts DEN now, still looking like a top 3 team

You seem to be under the impression that the Nuggets are willing to trade MPJ, it was widely rumored that the Rockets were doing everything they possibly could to get him in the Harden deal and were turned down repeatedly, but yet you think they are going to add another young guy they like and a good fit at forward that they need for some random star? Are we talking Giannis? Other than that MPJ is basically untouchable, guys that put up 19 and 7 on 66.3% TS% as a 3rd option for 2/3rds of a year in their 2nd year do not get traded. Especially when they step up to 22.8 and 7 on 67.6% TS percentage when they are played as the 2nd option.


Not really gonna dwell on this much but no one is untouchable, and if the Nuggets didn't meet lofty expectations and a perfect fit of a star became available - lets say a Paul George - then I'd imagine MPJ is on the block instantly, especially with the large contracts the smaller market Nuggets have added recently.

Not gonna put much stock in a deal that never had legs to being with, as Harden didnt want to be traded there. So of course its in the best interest of all involved to deny that anyone was ever involved in a deal.

All that said, I'm not against your analysis of MPJ at all. Hell I was trying to convince a lot of Nuggets fans off the ledge when they drafted him (the back issue was way overblown).. I'm a huge fan and I thought the Nuggets should keep him at all costs. That was before this deal though.. because now if I'm MPJ I'm still taking nothing less than a full max. But if a deal popped up where I could PG13 for him, who I think is as good offensively and of course worlds better defensively, I'd sell out to make that happen. As good as MPJ could be, Jokic is arguably the best player in the world right now and everything should be on the table to get him a title. And if that means shopping MPJ for a more balanced superstar or even Murray for the same, I'd be all about it.



LMAO, the Nuggets are not going to trade a 2nd year player putting up 19 and 7 on 63% TS percentage for Paul George. Those kind of players do not get traded. Go look up how many players in the NBA have put up those kind of numbers in their 2nd years and then look at the names of those players, than come back after you educate yourself and tell me how we are going to trade him for a 3rd tier star, get real.

As for being a huge fan, obviously not considering you do not even know the offense the Nuggets run and have run for 3 years.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#126 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:13 am

The Rebel wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:Don't judge your opinion what is most popular. And with that being said I disagree on what the poll results might be. I am confident that people on RealGM forum don't classify Aaron Gordon as a net neutral starter. His main value is what he does on the defensive end on the floor. He guards the best big wing or forward on the opposing team. You may not see it on the box score, but you will definitely see it on any advanced metrics report. This is a squad that has been criticized and rightfully so for how weak they were defensively prior to getting Gordon. There's a reason why last summer Portland offered 2 first round picks for Gordon, and Orlando rejected it. It took a full rebuild where other players such as Fournier and Vucevic were dealt in which that Gordon was dealt as well for a pretty good package. He's a valued player.


I'm actually citing metrics, not RGM opinion, in why I'm saying AG is a net neutral player. Also don't think the Nuggets gave up a 'pretty good package' - it was a bad contract in Harris, a late 1st rd prospect, and a top 5 protected 1st that's 4 years down the road.

I definitely respect AG's ability on defense, I just think that's pretty much all he can offer, and he's much worse off-ball than on-ball. I dont know if Malone is still pushing the same schemes he was in GS, but if he is, AG's going to have a tough fit ahead of him, barring the opposing team running their offense through the SF/PF.

I'm not saying AG's useless, I'm saying the timing of extending him now at that value of a contract makes little sense when they likely would still have had the best offer at the end of the season.


LMAO, you can use all the metrics you like, but seeing how you don't even know the offensive scheme the Nuggets run you obviously should probably not be commenting. It is no wonder you think the Nuggets would be so willing to give up their young guys, you don't know a damn thing about them.

The Nuggets were in the western conference finals a year ago while missing their starting SF, having their starting SG hobbled and missing 5 games in the playoffs, and depending on a rookie MPJ to be their only bench scorer. They made it to the 2nd round of this year's playoffs with Murray out, their starting SG in Barton missing all but 2 games, their backup SG missing the playoffs, and playing a guy they signed off the street major minutes in their back court.

To act like the Nuggets are some run of the mill 6-8th seed is laughable.

ON offense all they need Gordon to do is finish wide open dunks/layups and hit the occasional spot up shot to spread the floor, with his defense that would be a considerable upgrade over the Millsap that we had starting after the covid shutdown. If Murray is even close to the player he was prior to injury and with the growth of MPJ than anybody who doesn't think that Gordon makes them a contender should maybe pay attention to teams other than their own.


FNQ wrote:Wouldn't have played it safe personally but its not like this hurts DEN now, still looking like a top 3 team


Welp there goes the whole run of the mill thing. Ironic about the paying attention innit? :D

Not sure how you went on a rant about the offense when I talked about Malone's defensive scheme he set up in GS and began to set up in SAC. The thing about metrics is that they start a conversation, not end one. But when the response is "LMAO" while not giving any details about the scheme, a simple "I'm gonna rant and be generally useless" would save a lot of board space.

I'm glad they only need Gordon to dunk/layup and occasionally hit a 3, because thats all hes capable of. Also on-ball defense. Beyond that, there's not much. Despite being a good onball defender his metrics have always been iffy, mainly because of being slower off-ball, especially on the perimeter. Basically the same issue that Kelly Oubre had here, and we still run Malone's old switch-heavy system. I imagine Denver cant use that because of Jokic and all the other liabilities, but then that would make it easier to avoid Gordon defensively if so.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#127 » by djsunyc » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:18 am

once you become an over the cap team, you have to pay to retain talent so it doesnt matter what he got from the nuggets. the just needed to keep him.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#128 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:19 am

The Rebel wrote:
FNQ wrote:
The Rebel wrote:You seem to be under the impression that the Nuggets are willing to trade MPJ, it was widely rumored that the Rockets were doing everything they possibly could to get him in the Harden deal and were turned down repeatedly, but yet you think they are going to add another young guy they like and a good fit at forward that they need for some random star? Are we talking Giannis? Other than that MPJ is basically untouchable, guys that put up 19 and 7 on 66.3% TS% as a 3rd option for 2/3rds of a year in their 2nd year do not get traded. Especially when they step up to 22.8 and 7 on 67.6% TS percentage when they are played as the 2nd option.


Not really gonna dwell on this much but no one is untouchable, and if the Nuggets didn't meet lofty expectations and a perfect fit of a star became available - lets say a Paul George - then I'd imagine MPJ is on the block instantly, especially with the large contracts the smaller market Nuggets have added recently.

Not gonna put much stock in a deal that never had legs to being with, as Harden didnt want to be traded there. So of course its in the best interest of all involved to deny that anyone was ever involved in a deal.

All that said, I'm not against your analysis of MPJ at all. Hell I was trying to convince a lot of Nuggets fans off the ledge when they drafted him (the back issue was way overblown).. I'm a huge fan and I thought the Nuggets should keep him at all costs. That was before this deal though.. because now if I'm MPJ I'm still taking nothing less than a full max. But if a deal popped up where I could PG13 for him, who I think is as good offensively and of course worlds better defensively, I'd sell out to make that happen. As good as MPJ could be, Jokic is arguably the best player in the world right now and everything should be on the table to get him a title. And if that means shopping MPJ for a more balanced superstar or even Murray for the same, I'd be all about it.



LMAO, the Nuggets are not going to trade a 2nd year player putting up 19 and 7 on 63% TS percentage for Paul George. Those kind of players do not get traded. Go look up how many players in the NBA have put up those kind of numbers in their 2nd years and then look at the names of those players, than come back after you educate yourself and tell me how we are going to trade him for a 3rd tier star, get real.

As for being a huge fan, obviously not considering you do not even know the offense the Nuggets run and have run for 3 years.


Doubling down on the offense comments.. *chefs kiss* :lol:

I'll do you one better - did you know that no 6'11 F with a back surgery that was drafted 14th overall has been traded for a superstar? So it can't possibly happen..

Had no idea PG13 was a 3rd tier star.. been in the top 5-8 of metrics almost every year since his injury. Not only one of the best players in the league, but most consistent.

But dont listen to me I just work in sports data tracking, I clearly need to educate myself, starting with beginning every sentence with LMAO and entirely misreading posts so I can respond in what can only be described as angry and confused
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#129 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:20 am

djsunyc wrote:once you become an over the cap team, you have to pay to retain talent so it doesnt matter what he got from the nuggets. the just needed to keep him.


Right, but did they have to do it now? What would you say the odds were that AG gets in free agency what he just got from the Nuggets? How many teams are out there that will have big coin to spend, and will spend it on a guy that cant be a top 3 scoring option and has yet to significantly move the needle defensively for the teams he's been on?
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#130 » by djsunyc » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:35 am

FNQ wrote:
djsunyc wrote:once you become an over the cap team, you have to pay to retain talent so it doesnt matter what he got from the nuggets. the just needed to keep him.


Right, but did they have to do it now? What would you say the odds were that AG gets in free agency what he just got from the Nuggets? How many teams are out there that will have big coin to spend, and will spend it on a guy that cant be a top 3 scoring option and has yet to significantly move the needle defensively for the teams he's been on?
it only takes one team to throw out a huge offer. if you like the guy, keep him.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#131 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:39 am

djsunyc wrote:
FNQ wrote:
djsunyc wrote:once you become an over the cap team, you have to pay to retain talent so it doesnt matter what he got from the nuggets. the just needed to keep him.


Right, but did they have to do it now? What would you say the odds were that AG gets in free agency what he just got from the Nuggets? How many teams are out there that will have big coin to spend, and will spend it on a guy that cant be a top 3 scoring option and has yet to significantly move the needle defensively for the teams he's been on?
it only takes one team to throw out a huge offer. if you like the guy, keep him.


Could say the exact same thing about a trade though.

Also Nuggets would have bird rights and the ability to beat any and all offers, so unless they upset him, they'd be in the driver's seat to keep him
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#132 » by Poetry-In-Motion » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:40 am

FNQ wrote:
djsunyc wrote:once you become an over the cap team, you have to pay to retain talent so it doesnt matter what he got from the nuggets. the just needed to keep him.


Right, but did they have to do it now? What would you say the odds were that AG gets in free agency what he just got from the Nuggets? How many teams are out there that will have big coin to spend, and will spend it on a guy that cant be a top 3 scoring option and has yet to significantly move the needle defensively for the teams he's been on?


Yes, you do. That’s the point. Nuggets showed commitment by trading assets for Gordon. From that moment on, it becomes a priority to lock him up. Very similar to Bucks locking up Jrue Holiday to his extension (in which many felt was an overpay at the time).

And yes he would get a similar offer in the open market.
One, it’s a shallow free agency class.
And two, the cap rises from $112M to $119M.

Also if you still disagree with that, and you’re nitpicking between a 4 year $92M that was given to him now vs. a hypothetical 4 year $80M deal… $12M over 4 years is something not to fuss about when you are risking losing him for nothing as an Unrestricted Free Agent. If you feel his value his even lesser than that in 2022 summer where the cap rises… then this is a major rabbit hole and we simply disagree on Aaron Gordon’s value to the Nuggets.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#133 » by Coeur » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:54 am

AG as a finisher with more time with Jokic will be a force. Not only flip flops with MpJ and otheres defensively but does same offensivly with a super ubique offensive talent in jokic
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#134 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:52 am

Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
Yes, you do. That’s the point. Nuggets showed commitment by trading assets for Gordon. From that moment on, it becomes a priority to lock him up. Very similar to Bucks locking up Jrue Holiday to his extension (in which many felt was an overpay at the time).

And yes he would get a similar offer in the open market.
One, it’s a shallow free agency class.
And two, the cap rises from $112M to $119M.

Also if you still disagree with that, and you’re nitpicking between a 4 year $92M that was given to him now vs. a hypothetical 4 year $80M deal… $12M over 4 years is something not to fuss about when you are risking losing him for nothing as an Unrestricted Free Agent. If you feel his value his even lesser than that in 2022 summer where the cap rises… then this is a major rabbit hole and we simply disagree on Aaron Gordon’s value to the Nuggets.


Cant compare an actual star like Jrue to a role player like Gordon. Jrue is gonna fit wherever he goes. AG needs to be in a spot where he fits.

12m difference.. AND the flexibility to move on from him, or move him for a better player should one become available.

You're worried that a team would look at AG, someone who was dealt for not much value, someone who is clearly not a top 3 option on a team, and offer him more than 23m AAV? Really?

Ok sure. Play it safe/scared, I'm just saying that a team like Denver has no real margin for error in the first place, and now is literally walking the fine line. This is the team now. If it doesn't work, that's it.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#135 » by Poetry-In-Motion » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:01 am

FNQ wrote:
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
Yes, you do. That’s the point. Nuggets showed commitment by trading assets for Gordon. From that moment on, it becomes a priority to lock him up. Very similar to Bucks locking up Jrue Holiday to his extension (in which many felt was an overpay at the time).

And yes he would get a similar offer in the open market.
One, it’s a shallow free agency class.
And two, the cap rises from $112M to $119M.

Also if you still disagree with that, and you’re nitpicking between a 4 year $92M that was given to him now vs. a hypothetical 4 year $80M deal… $12M over 4 years is something not to fuss about when you are risking losing him for nothing as an Unrestricted Free Agent. If you feel his value his even lesser than that in 2022 summer where the cap rises… then this is a major rabbit hole and we simply disagree on Aaron Gordon’s value to the Nuggets.


Cant compare an actual star like Jrue to a role player like Gordon. Jrue is gonna fit wherever he goes. AG needs to be in a spot where he fits.

12m difference.. AND the flexibility to move on from him, or move him for a better player should one become available.

You're worried that a team would look at AG, someone who was dealt for not much value, someone who is clearly not a top 3 option on a team, and offer him more than 23m AAV? Really?

Ok sure. Play it safe/scared, I'm just saying that a team like Denver has no real margin for error in the first place, and now is literally walking the fine line. This is the team now. If it doesn't work, that's it.


It's not playing it "safe/scared", it's just good general managing. The Nuggets are happy they locked in the contract that they or another team would have offered him a year from now. And yes, we have evidence that teams were interested in Aaron Gordon. He would have got a similar deal.

Portland:
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/trail-blazers/aaron-gordon-says-blazers-were-mix-trade-him

Boston:
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/aaron-gordon-trade-deadline-boston-celtics-matt-moore?utm_source=twitter&%243p=a_partnerize&%24affiliate_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprf.hn%2Fclick%2Fcamref%3A1100l8b2N%2Fpubref%3A66960X1516590Xef128d0b3ebe2043bc09de5b5fb04f8d%5B%5Bsubaffiliatedomain%3Asbnation.com%5D%24canonical_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnetwork.com%2Fnba%2Faaron-gordon-trade-deadline-boston-celtics-matt-moore%3Futm_source%3Dtwitter&_branch_match_id=967260690581598779

I'm just going by facts here. You're just stubborn by your own opinion of Gordon. I would suggest just watching Aaron Gordon and the Nuggets more this upcoming this season. Maybe then you will get it.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#136 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:10 am

Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
Yes, you do. That’s the point. Nuggets showed commitment by trading assets for Gordon. From that moment on, it becomes a priority to lock him up. Very similar to Bucks locking up Jrue Holiday to his extension (in which many felt was an overpay at the time).

And yes he would get a similar offer in the open market.
One, it’s a shallow free agency class.
And two, the cap rises from $112M to $119M.

Also if you still disagree with that, and you’re nitpicking between a 4 year $92M that was given to him now vs. a hypothetical 4 year $80M deal… $12M over 4 years is something not to fuss about when you are risking losing him for nothing as an Unrestricted Free Agent. If you feel his value his even lesser than that in 2022 summer where the cap rises… then this is a major rabbit hole and we simply disagree on Aaron Gordon’s value to the Nuggets.


Cant compare an actual star like Jrue to a role player like Gordon. Jrue is gonna fit wherever he goes. AG needs to be in a spot where he fits.

12m difference.. AND the flexibility to move on from him, or move him for a better player should one become available.

You're worried that a team would look at AG, someone who was dealt for not much value, someone who is clearly not a top 3 option on a team, and offer him more than 23m AAV? Really?

Ok sure. Play it safe/scared, I'm just saying that a team like Denver has no real margin for error in the first place, and now is literally walking the fine line. This is the team now. If it doesn't work, that's it.


It's not playing it "safe/scared", it's just good general managing. The Nuggets are happy they locked in the contract that they or another team would have offered him a year from now. And yes, we have evidence that teams were interested in Aaron Gordon. He would have got a similar deal.

Portland:
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/trail-blazers/aaron-gordon-says-blazers-were-mix-trade-him

Boston:
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/aaron-gordon-trade-deadline-boston-celtics-matt-moore?utm_source=twitter&%243p=a_partnerize&%24affiliate_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprf.hn%2Fclick%2Fcamref%3A1100l8b2N%2Fpubref%3A66960X1516590Xef128d0b3ebe2043bc09de5b5fb04f8d%5B%5Bsubaffiliatedomain%3Asbnation.com%5D%24canonical_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnetwork.com%2Fnba%2Faaron-gordon-trade-deadline-boston-celtics-matt-moore%3Futm_source%3Dtwitter&_branch_match_id=967260690581598779

I'm just going by facts here. You're just stubborn by your own opinion of Gordon. I would suggest just watching Aaron Gordon and the Nuggets more this upcoming this season. Maybe then you will get it.


Ah yes, I'm stubborn, while you cape for spending more money than necessary, less flexibility than necessary, and call it good GMing.

The fact that other teams were interested - ones that are not cap threats so I'm not really sure what the point is here - is irrelevant, because the offer that was accepted was a very bland one: a bad contract, a fringe 1st rounder, and a 1st 4 years down the road. Whatever point you thought you had bringing those up, the bottom line is their offers were *less* than the one the Magic accepted.

The Nuggets being happy about it doesnt make it any less of a scared move.

Look you wanna be a fan of it, go right ahead. But overpaying a guy, which despite your protests *lessens* his trade value, and therefore greatly lessens the teams ability to pivot off their roster if things don't go well, isn't particularly smart. It's playing it safe, and teams that do that typically don't win. If the Nuggets already had a title, or even a Finals appearance, under their belt, then it could at least be in the 50/50 range.. but they haven't. So its a premature move to keep a guy there who may or may not vault them into the Finals. And if he doesn't, whats next? You're gonna move him to Boston or Portland? Be ready to take back a bad contract, just like the Magic did.

and you're not going by facts.. lol cmon. You are citing a couple facts and then spinning off into an argument about why its good that you overpaid a guy and lost flexibility. Not really facts that youre citing.. we could double back to metrics since you thought I wasnt using those before? Those greatly support my argument
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#137 » by Poetry-In-Motion » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:17 am

FNQ wrote:
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Cant compare an actual star like Jrue to a role player like Gordon. Jrue is gonna fit wherever he goes. AG needs to be in a spot where he fits.

12m difference.. AND the flexibility to move on from him, or move him for a better player should one become available.

You're worried that a team would look at AG, someone who was dealt for not much value, someone who is clearly not a top 3 option on a team, and offer him more than 23m AAV? Really?

Ok sure. Play it safe/scared, I'm just saying that a team like Denver has no real margin for error in the first place, and now is literally walking the fine line. This is the team now. If it doesn't work, that's it.


It's not playing it "safe/scared", it's just good general managing. The Nuggets are happy they locked in the contract that they or another team would have offered him a year from now. And yes, we have evidence that teams were interested in Aaron Gordon. He would have got a similar deal.

Portland:
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/trail-blazers/aaron-gordon-says-blazers-were-mix-trade-him

Boston:
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/aaron-gordon-trade-deadline-boston-celtics-matt-moore?utm_source=twitter&%243p=a_partnerize&%24affiliate_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprf.hn%2Fclick%2Fcamref%3A1100l8b2N%2Fpubref%3A66960X1516590Xef128d0b3ebe2043bc09de5b5fb04f8d%5B%5Bsubaffiliatedomain%3Asbnation.com%5D%24canonical_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnetwork.com%2Fnba%2Faaron-gordon-trade-deadline-boston-celtics-matt-moore%3Futm_source%3Dtwitter&_branch_match_id=967260690581598779

I'm just going by facts here. You're just stubborn by your own opinion of Gordon. I would suggest just watching Aaron Gordon and the Nuggets more this upcoming this season. Maybe then you will get it.


Ah yes, I'm stubborn, while you cape for spending more money than necessary, less flexibility than necessary, and call it good GMing.

The fact that other teams were interested - ones that are not cap threats so I'm not really sure what the point is here - is irrelevant, because the offer that was accepted was a very bland one: a bad contract, a fringe 1st rounder, and a 1st 4 years down the road. Whatever point you thought you had bringing those up, the bottom line is their offers were *less* than the one the Magic accepted.

The Nuggets being happy about it doesnt make it any less of a scared move.

Look you wanna be a fan of it, go right ahead. But overpaying a guy, which despite your protests *lessens* his trade value, and therefore greatly lessens the teams ability to pivot off their roster if things don't go well, isn't particularly smart. It's playing it safe, and teams that do that typically don't win. If the Nuggets already had a title, or even a Finals appearance, under their belt, then it could at least be in the 50/50 range.. but they haven't. So its a premature move to keep a guy there who may or may not vault them into the Finals. And if he doesn't, whats next? You're gonna move him to Boston or Portland? Be ready to take back a bad contract, just like the Magic did.

and you're not going by facts.. lol cmon. You are citing a couple facts and then spinning off into an argument about why its good that you overpaid a guy and lost flexibility. Not really facts that youre citing.. we could double back to metrics since you thought I wasnt using those before? Those greatly support my argument


I'm not saying to move him anywhere. You're simply putting words that were not said. I'm simply bringing up a point countering yours where you said there would not be any teams interested. I'm showing evidence of teams willing to give up multiple first rounders for him. And these are just reports of teams that leaked. Acquiring a player without giving up picks is even more attractive because it does not cost any assets, hence he would be signed for a major deal next summer. If I'm the Nuggets I am keeping that guy in the long term. It's you who keeps going back and forth. Complimenting him and then saying he isn't worth it, yada yada. Anyways. This a rabbit hole now. You will understand this upcoming season.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#138 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:23 am

Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
I'm not saying to move him anywhere. You're simply putting words that were not said. I'm simply bringing up a point countering yours where you said there would not be any teams interested. I'm showing evidence of teams willing to give up multiple first rounders for him. And these are just reports of teams that leaked. Acquiring a player without giving up picks is even more attractive because it does not cost any assets, hence he would be signed for a major deal next summer. If I'm the Nuggets I am keeping that guy in the long term. It's you who keeps going back and forth. Complimenting him and then saying he isn't worth it, yada yada. Anyways. This a rabbit hole now. You will understand this upcoming season.


:lol: Jesus I couldnt have qualified it any clearer man.

I'd like you to explain my take on the whole trading AG thing now that he's been overpaid... I dont think you are understanding. The teams that are offering for him are not ones that are looking to rebuild, or just shuffle parts. They were looking to use (clearly) minor assets to get a solid role player on a small contract. He's now on a 20M+ AAV contract over the next 5 years, so any team acquiring him wont get to evaluate him before extending. Its too late.

Those teams offering multiple 1sts - but for some reason ORL didnt take the deal - means that there were either negative assets attached, or heavy protection. Bottom line its a huge stretch because the deal that was taken is thoroughly underwhelming, and came at a time when he was more valuable.

The fact that you see saying someone is an OK, net-neutral player and is simultaneously overpaid as somehow conflicting is about as strange as it gets. That could be said about a great majority of the league.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#139 » by Poetry-In-Motion » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:28 am

FNQ wrote:
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
I'm not saying to move him anywhere. You're simply putting words that were not said. I'm simply bringing up a point countering yours where you said there would not be any teams interested. I'm showing evidence of teams willing to give up multiple first rounders for him. And these are just reports of teams that leaked. Acquiring a player without giving up picks is even more attractive because it does not cost any assets, hence he would be signed for a major deal next summer. If I'm the Nuggets I am keeping that guy in the long term. It's you who keeps going back and forth. Complimenting him and then saying he isn't worth it, yada yada. Anyways. This a rabbit hole now. You will understand this upcoming season.


:lol: Jesus I couldnt have qualified it any clearer man.

I'd like you to explain my take on the whole trading AG thing now that he's been overpaid... I dont think you are understanding. The teams that are offering for him are not ones that are looking to rebuild, or just shuffle parts. They were looking to use (clearly) minor assets to get a solid role player on a small contract. He's now on a 20M+ AAV contract over the next 5 years, so any team acquiring him wont get to evaluate him before extending. Its too late.

Those teams offering multiple 1sts - but for some reason ORL didnt take the deal - means that there were either negative assets attached, or heavy protection. Bottom line its a huge stretch because the deal that was taken is thoroughly underwhelming, and came at a time when he was more valuable.

The fact that you see saying someone is an OK, net-neutral player and is simultaneously overpaid as somehow conflicting is about as strange as it gets. That could be said about a great majority of the league.


Alright... you don't like AG. I noticed some compliments of his defense. I guess you don't value that end. We disagree. Have fun waiting on that Paul George trade to come up. Watch basketball. Don't just go by box scores. All the best.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#140 » by Poetry-In-Motion » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:32 am

I will end off with this well done article explaining the immediate impact Gordon has had last season. Great job by the Nuggets to lock him up to a long term deal.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/4/6/22369360/aaron-gordon-trade-denver-nuggets-nikola-jokic

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