Gordon re-signs with the nuggets !

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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#81 » by BelgradeNugget » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:31 am

clyde21 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
clyde21 wrote:i like Gordon, just don't really see what his role his next to Jokic/MPJ if he's not gonna be the glue guy/defensive guy, there is pretty 0 rim protection right now between the 3 of them, so not sure what the plan is here.

This is the plan
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OrlMagic05 wrote:


what's the rating in the POs? because I don't see that front court scaling at all, one of the worst defensive front courts in the NBA, and i don't think Jokic being such a freak will make up for it when push comes to shove in the POs.

where is the rim protection gonna come from?

Well they didn't have Murray, Barton and PJ Dozier in the POs, and MPJ tweaked his back in 2nd round so you can't make a good conclusion of they defensive ability in POs. And these stats are also from small sample size in RS. The thing is they looked really good against good teams in RS with that lineup.
About rim protection
"According to Cleaning the Glass, opposing teams shot just under a third (31.0 percent) of their field goals within four feet of the rim when Jokic was on the floor, ranking him in the 80th percentile for his position. For comparison, Myles Turner, who led the league in blocks this season, saw opponents take 37.1 percent of their field goal attempts within four feet of the rim while he was on the floor, ranking him in the 11th percentile.

It's impressive for a player like Jokic, who constantly gets knocked for not being a great rim protector, to seemingly deter teams from even thinking about shooting inside when he's on the floor.

The Nuggets as a team gave up the sixth-least amount of paint points per game at 45.2 and saw just 28.2 field goal attempts per game inside of six feet, good for ninth in the league. For a team that lacked rim protection, that's pretty good."

https://ca.nba.com/news/nikola-jokic-denver-nuggets-superstars-defensive-improvement-contributed-to-his-mvp-level-season/e4o1x1iytkr61rgnyyaaxz8j5

Nuggets protect the rim by not allowing teams to take shots at the rim but by forcing them to take tougher midrange shots.
One more thing that makes AG valuable for the Nuggs is the fact that with him MPJ can play PF defensively and he is the best shot blocker in Nuggets frontcuort.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#82 » by Jadoogar » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:32 pm

Sharkboy242 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:How are they going to afford Murray,'s max Jokic's max, Gordon's 24M and the likely huge extension for MPJ?

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hmm it's definitely a lot of money but i think that starting five, when healthy, is among the best in the league. The west is pretty wide open right now. The lakers are good but there's no boogeyman like the Durant warriors, i could easily see the Nuggets making the finals at some point during this contract.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#83 » by Jadoogar » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:33 pm

clyde21 wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
clyde21 wrote:i like Gordon, just don't really see what his role his next to Jokic/MPJ if he's not gonna be the glue guy/defensive guy, there is pretty 0 rim protection right now between the 3 of them, so not sure what the plan is here.

This is the plan
Read on Twitter
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OrlMagic05 wrote:


what's the rating in the POs? because I don't see that front court scaling at all, one of the worst defensive front courts in the NBA, and i don't think Jokic being such a freak will make up for it when push comes to shove in the POs.

where is the rim protection gonna come from?


well we haven't seen it in the playoffs but one could argue the same for the Nets and they seem to be doing ok. I think having an elite offense with serviceable defense is enough in today's NBA.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#84 » by The_Hater » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:57 pm

That doesn’t look like a great contract on the surface, but contenders and the level just below being a contender have no other choice but to keep the band together. There just isn’t an alternative out there where you can replace a player of Gordon’s level when you’re over the cap.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#85 » by TravisScott55 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:03 pm

Get your bread young man
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#86 » by BelgradeNugget » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:22 pm

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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#87 » by Scalabrine » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:49 pm

CIN-C-STAR wrote:Player option isn't great but overall it's a solid deal for Denver.
I don't get people who think all these contracts are awful. Can only surmise they aren't very familiar with how the CBA works.
Denver is going to be operating over the tax, so whether they resigned Gordon or not they would find it difficult to upgrade their roster.
Resigning him at what looks like market value to me is a no brainer.


Market value???

John Collins just got 25m per year.
Mike Conley got 22m per year.
Lonzo Ball got 20m per year.
THj, Fournier, Powell, Dinwiddie, Robinson all got 18m and I'd take them over him even if they were getting paid the same.
Jerami Grant is getting paid less and he was much better for the Nuggets...
Sht, I feel like I'd rather Josh Hart or Kelly Oubre over Aaron Gordon and they are making almost half of that!

He averaged 10/4.5/2 with the Nuggets last season and was a total non-factor in the playoffs. I get that they needed to keep him, but this is not market value. He's an overrated defensive player, he's a below average shooter, and he's a 4th option at best on offense on any good teams.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on why this is market value, and who else he compares to that is making that type of money.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#88 » by CIN-C-STAR » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:58 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:Player option isn't great but overall it's a solid deal for Denver.
I don't get people who think all these contracts are awful. Can only surmise they aren't very familiar with how the CBA works.
Denver is going to be operating over the tax, so whether they resigned Gordon or not they would find it difficult to upgrade their roster.
Resigning him at what looks like market value to me is a no brainer.


Market value???

John Collins just got 25m per year.
Mike Conley got 22m per year.
Lonzo Ball got 20m per year.
THj, Fournier, Powell, Dinwiddie, Robinson all got 18m and I'd take them over him even if they were getting paid the same.
Jerami Grant is getting paid less and he was much better for the Nuggets...
Sht, I feel like I'd rather Josh Hart or Kelly Oubre over Aaron Gordon and they are making almost half of that!

He averaged 10/4.5/2 with the Nuggets last season and was a total non-factor in the playoffs. I get that they needed to keep him, but this is not market value. He's an overrated defensive player, he's a below average shooter, and he's a 4th option at best on offense on any good teams.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on why this is market value, and who else he compares to that is making that type of money.


Most of your comparisons aren't apples to apples.
John Collins was a RFA. Conley is old, has had health issues, and likely prioritized signing with a contender he was already comfortable with over the largest possible pay day. Jerami Grant signed his contract last offseason and didn't want to sign back with Denver.
I really don't understand wanting Josh Hart or Kelly Oubre over Aaron Gordon tbh.
I could see wanting some of those other guys over him, but Gordon's fit is better in Denver since they are likely to lock up MPJ and need Gordon's defense at the other forward spot.

Gordon turns 26 tomorrow. You are getting him through his prime. He's 6' 8", a solid, versatile defender, and has shown some scoring punch in the past with Orlando. Not sure what you think those guys go for, but someone would pay him next offseason if he had a decent season. It's going to be a thin free agency class.
Maybe he only gets $20 mill per next offseason or something, but that extra $2 mill per doesn't impact Denver's ability to build its roster in anyway. Once MPJ's extension kicks in in the offseason they'll already be over the cap and be limited in the ways they can add to their team.
Are you going to make your team objectively worse in the future over $2 million, when you've the current MVP on your roster and are a contender? When healthy the Nuggets looked very good last season with Gordon on the floor.
Or do you think Gordon only gets MLE money next offseason or something? Because I don't. There will be teams flush with cap space and no one to sign.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#89 » by SF_Warriors » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:14 pm

theonlyclutch wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:Not particularly liking the contract but he isn't a bad fit for them and actually a good compliment to MPJ. Draymond in comparison is making about 25-26 mill per and everyone hated that one but it doesnt seem as bad now.


Draymond was/is a far better defender than AG and was also partially rewarded for being a key part of GSW's dominance while under a cheaper contract. Not so the case with AG now.


Yea, which is why I'm saying draymond's contract isnt looking too shabby now. AG doesnt have elite strengths like draymond but they are being paid similarly. The league does value versatility nowadays and AG is a player that fits that type of mold, plus denver has a need and fit for a player like him. Hopefully it works out for them.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#90 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:14 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:Player option isn't great but overall it's a solid deal for Denver.
I don't get people who think all these contracts are awful. Can only surmise they aren't very familiar with how the CBA works.
Denver is going to be operating over the tax, so whether they resigned Gordon or not they would find it difficult to upgrade their roster.
Resigning him at what looks like market value to me is a no brainer.


Market value???

John Collins just got 25m per year.
Mike Conley got 22m per year.
Lonzo Ball got 20m per year.
THj, Fournier, Powell, Dinwiddie, Robinson all got 18m and I'd take them over him even if they were getting paid the same.
Jerami Grant is getting paid less and he was much better for the Nuggets...
Sht, I feel like I'd rather Josh Hart or Kelly Oubre over Aaron Gordon and they are making almost half of that!

He averaged 10/4.5/2 with the Nuggets last season and was a total non-factor in the playoffs. I get that they needed to keep him, but this is not market value. He's an overrated defensive player, he's a below average shooter, and he's a 4th option at best on offense on any good teams.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on why this is market value, and who else he compares to that is making that type of money.


You just haven’t watched Denver since the moment they traded for him. He didn’t look good in the playoffs when half the team was injured, but in the RS Denver had the best record in the league since they traded for him, and he had that Swiss army knife impact, amazing off ball and fits their starting lineup like a glove. Looking at his stats like that is just you being a general board casual, nothing else. And lol @Fournier or Oubre over Gordon
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#91 » by Scalabrine » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:28 pm

CIN-C-STAR wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:Player option isn't great but overall it's a solid deal for Denver.
I don't get people who think all these contracts are awful. Can only surmise they aren't very familiar with how the CBA works.
Denver is going to be operating over the tax, so whether they resigned Gordon or not they would find it difficult to upgrade their roster.
Resigning him at what looks like market value to me is a no brainer.


Market value???

John Collins just got 25m per year.
Mike Conley got 22m per year.
Lonzo Ball got 20m per year.
THj, Fournier, Powell, Dinwiddie, Robinson all got 18m and I'd take them over him even if they were getting paid the same.
Jerami Grant is getting paid less and he was much better for the Nuggets...
Sht, I feel like I'd rather Josh Hart or Kelly Oubre over Aaron Gordon and they are making almost half of that!

He averaged 10/4.5/2 with the Nuggets last season and was a total non-factor in the playoffs. I get that they needed to keep him, but this is not market value. He's an overrated defensive player, he's a below average shooter, and he's a 4th option at best on offense on any good teams.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on why this is market value, and who else he compares to that is making that type of money.


Most of your comparisons aren't apples to apples.
John Collins was a RFA. Conley is old, has had health issues, and likely prioritized signing with a contender he was already comfortable with over the largest possible pay day. Jerami Grant signed his contract last offseason and didn't want to sign back with Denver.
I really don't understand wanting Josh Hart or Kelly Oubre over Aaron Gordon tbh.
I could see wanting some of those other guys over him, but Gordon's fit is better in Denver since they are likely to lock up MPJ and need Gordon's defense at the other forward spot.

Gordon turns 26 tomorrow. You are getting him through his prime. He's 6' 8", a solid, versatile defender, and has shown some scoring punch in the past with Orlando. Not sure what you think those guys go for, but someone would pay him next offseason if he had a decent season. It's going to be a thin free agency class.
Maybe he only gets $20 mill per next offseason or something, but that extra $2 mill per doesn't impact Denver's ability to build its roster in anyway. Once MPJ's extension kicks in in the offseason they'll already be over the cap and be limited in the ways they can add to their team.
Are you going to make your team objectively worse in the future over $2 million, when you've the current MVP on your roster and are a contender? When healthy the Nuggets looked very good last season with Gordon on the floor.
Or do you think Gordon only gets MLE money next offseason or something? Because I don't. There will be teams flush with cap space and no one to sign.


I think Kelly Oubre and Aaron Gordon as pretty damn close as a comparison and I'd personally take Oubre, knowing that his full season numbers were heavily skewed...

After a historically awful shooting stretch to start the season, his last 33 games of the season he averaged 17.6/6.3/1.4 with 1 steal and .7 blocks per game on 48/38/68 shooting splits. Which is much closer to his career numbers than the first 16 games in which he was averaging 11.5/5.5/1 on 35/20/75 shooting splits.

It's totally fair to say that you'd rather Gordon but you can't ignore that they are very similar in skillset, they're the same age, same height and they play the same position. Their numbers are incredibly similar (see link below). The biggest difference between the two is that one just signed a 2 year 24 million dollar deal, while the other signed a 4 year deal paying him 23 million PER YEAR!

I'm fully aware of the position that the Nuggets are in, and they wouldn't have had the opportunity to sign Kelly Oubre or anyone in that salary slot, but I'm arguing over the fact that you said that the Nuggets are paying him market value. I think that that is WAY over market value. Like almost twice as much as what he should be getting paid. It's a Gary Harris situation all over again! Good player, not great, but important to the team, but waaaay overpriced.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=gordoaa01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=oubreke01&p2yrfrom=2020
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#92 » by Harry Garris » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:39 pm

Saints14 wrote:Wow. They giving MPJ the max too? That's a pretty awesome top 4 locked up for a while if they do


Aaron Gordon is a much better player on paper than he is in reality. He's such a limited offensive player. He's good in transition because he's a good athlete, can catch a lob here and there, and he can spot up if left wide open. But put any defensive pressure on him at all and the Nuggets are playing 4 on 5 offensively. That's the problem.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#93 » by HMFFL » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:50 pm

Denver has a #1 and other options so this actually makes sense. Gordon can easily be moved if he needs to be.

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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#94 » by matt6715 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:55 pm

Harry Garris wrote:
Saints14 wrote:Wow. They giving MPJ the max too? That's a pretty awesome top 4 locked up for a while if they do


Aaron Gordon is a much better player on paper than he is in reality. He's such a limited offensive player. He's good in transition because he's a good athlete, can catch a lob here and there, and he can spot up if left wide open. But put any defensive pressure on him at all and the Nuggets are playing 4 on 5 offensively. That's the problem.


There's no need for him to be Carmelo Anthony on the Nuggets. Let him be him, an elite role player
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#95 » by GSP » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:21 pm

Denver had such a bright future if Mpj doesnt reach his potential when his extension kicks in theyre boned
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#96 » by Saints14 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:36 pm

Harry Garris wrote:
Saints14 wrote:Wow. They giving MPJ the max too? That's a pretty awesome top 4 locked up for a while if they do


Aaron Gordon is a much better player on paper than he is in reality. He's such a limited offensive player. He's good in transition because he's a good athlete, can catch a lob here and there, and he can spot up if left wide open. But put any defensive pressure on him at all and the Nuggets are playing 4 on 5 offensively. That's the problem.


He was clearly over his head in the last playoffs with 0 guard creation, but as the 4th best player on a team centered around Jokic and Murray I thought he was good in that role. Probably a bit of an overpay but if it doesn't prevent them from keeping MPJ it doesn't really matter. Just crucial they continue to draft well
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#97 » by BelgradeNugget » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:20 pm

Here is a list of players who are big enough to guard best wings like LeBron, Kawhi, PG13, KD, Butler, Giannis, Tatum...strong enough to guard AD, Randle, Zion...quick enough to guard Book, Luka, Dame.
1. LeBron
2. Kawhi
3. Giannis
4. PG13
5. Butler
6. Simmons
7. OG Anunoby
8. AG
Here is a list of them who are not superstars.
6. Simmons
7. OG Anunoby
8. AG
Here is a list of players who would be willing to accept their role being low usage players as 4/5th offensive options
7. OG Anunoby
8. AG
Here is a list of them that Denver could sign
8. AG
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#98 » by basketballRob » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:42 pm

GSP wrote:Denver had such a bright future if Mpj doesnt reach his potential when his extension kicks in theyre boned
No extension signed yet.

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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#99 » by Sharkboy242 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:39 am

BelgradeNugget wrote:Here is a list of players who are big enough to guard best wings like LeBron, Kawhi, PG13, KD, Butler, Giannis, Tatum...strong enough to guard AD, Randle, Zion...quick enough to guard Book, Luka, Dame.
1. LeBron
2. Kawhi
3. Giannis
4. PG13
5. Butler
6. Simmons
7. OG Anunoby
8. AG
Here is a list of them who are not superstars.
6. Simmons
7. OG Anunoby
8. AG
Here is a list of players who would be willing to accept their role being low usage players as 4/5th offensive options
7. OG Anunoby
8. AG
Here is a list of them that Denver could sign
8. AG

This is really all the justification needed for Denver to pull this signing off.

You could add a few players to that list probably, like Jeremi Grant, but ultimately when you reach that final line you're left with AG. Denver has a void and AG fills it. It just makes sense within the context of the roster structure. As a fan I'm stoked that they're willing to pay the luxury fines based on glimpses of an elite team. It can turn south but I'm glad they're trying.
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Re: Gordon re-signs with the nuggets ! 

Post#100 » by The Rebel » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:01 am

Statlanta wrote:23 Million vs. Jerami Grant's 20 Million

That's the real comparison.


ONly if you ignore the fact that Grant went to Detroit because he wanted to play for a black front office and black coach and there was no way nor reason for the Nuggets to fire their front office and coach for a racist.

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