Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd?

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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#21 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:40 pm

The only teams you asterisks are those won by the Celtics and Lakers. Everyone else's counts. Everyone knows this..,
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#22 » by lonniefire » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:42 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:Have there been any legit titles?



Not since 2015 at least according to many


Nah you gotta go back further than that. You know how most people feel about that ring especially after what happened with the rematch. I’d say the 2014 Spurs and 2011 Mavs. At least it’s more legit because both teams were healthy.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#23 » by Homer38 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:44 pm

Stalwart wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
Stalwart wrote:
Why would we remove everyones rings because Lebrons were manufactured?


wtf :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:


Ok, goodbye.


You have a major problem

Just look at how he performed in his career and tell me afterwards he doesn't deserve his rings or his success .... I mean, LBJ could have at least 7 with the way he performed in 2009,2017 and 2018 in the playoffs.And what about 2015 when he won 4 games(and 2 games in the finals) with a G-league caliber team.2016 was also all effort and heart.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#24 » by Pachinko_ » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:46 pm

No, because every title feels like (and actually is) a marathon and a superhuman effort. Just the fact that you're playing 100+ games that season, and you have to be at your best when you're most exhausted and playing against people leaving it all on the floor, even though everyone is from hurt to outright injured at this point, and all under the brightest lights and the harshest scrutiny, that's what makes it an NBA title.

Regardless what your path is, the NBA is so big and deep that it will throw a tonne of talent and adversity at you and you have to overcome it all, and it feels like a mountain. I mean **** you'll be exhausted just watching it on TV as a fan.

So yeah you can certainly rank titles in terms of difficulty, sure. But asterisk... nah.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#25 » by LesGrossman » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:47 pm

I would like all superteam titles asterisked. That would be all of LeBrons (no matter what whack manufactured, hand picked stats his paid influencers and other heavily biased guys bring up, the simple fact remains that the only organic, naturally grown team he played on was his first cav stint, everything afterwards was the result of collusion and deck stacking); i can agree with asterisk for GSW with KD. 2015 though was a legit title, against a superteam, dunno why we should disrespect that run.

The greatest achievements in recent history were
- 2011: Dirk single handedly beating the super best friends in Miami AND the refs who did everything in their power to rig the series; meanwhile Bron and Wade mocking him for being sick (look up "coughgate" to see how to make an ass clown out of yourself).
- 2014 Spurs: Totally dismantling and exposing LeBron, and the rest of the heat. All doing it as a team, without superstar allure, posing, showboating and chest pounding. Most admirable team in the 2000's.
- 2019: Kawhi wins for the Raptors
- 2021: Giannis dominates and wins

In retrospective the single run of Dirk Nowitzki and the 2011 Mavs (not only the finals, but the whole playoffs in a peak strength western conference) beats everything LeBron has accomplished, and also the two rings KD won so easily.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#26 » by Stalwart » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:47 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Stalwart wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
wtf :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:


Ok, goodbye.


You have a major problem

Just look at how he performed in his career and tell me afterwards he doesn't deserve his rings or his success .... I mean, LBJ could have at least 7 with the way he performed in 2009,2017 and 2018 in the playoffs.And what about 2015 when he won 4 games(and 2 games in the finals) with a G-league caliber team.2016 was also all effort and heart.


You're not dealing with the fact that he picked his own teams, depleted his own conference, created a players agency, and jumped from team to team to win those titles. If Lebron is so good why did he have to do all that? Dirk didn't have to. Kawhi & Giannis didnt have to, Kobe didn't have to, Tim Duncan didn't have to. Why did Lebron have to?
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#27 » by Homer38 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:52 pm

Stalwart wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
Stalwart wrote:
Ok, goodbye.


You have a major problem

Just look at how he performed in his career and tell me afterwards he doesn't deserve his rings or his success .... I mean, LBJ could have at least 7 with the way he performed in 2009,2017 and 2018 in the playoffs.And what about 2015 when he won 4 games(and 2 games in the finals) with a G-league caliber team.2016 was also all effort and heart.


You're not dealing with the fact that he picked his own teams, depleted his own conference, created a players agency, and jumped from team to team to win those titles. If Lebron is so good why did he have to do all that? Dirk didn't have to. Kawhi & Giannis didnt have to, Kobe didn't have to, Tim Duncan didn't have to. Why did Lebron have to?


No one can win a title alone....I mean Jordan has 0 winning season in 5 seasons without the great Scottie Pippen and never above 50 wins without Phil Jackson.LBJ won 66 and 61 games with Mo Williams and Mike Brown as HC and make the finals with this roster at 22 years old


Read on Twitter


And BTW,the lakers and the cavs were lottery team before LBJ join them....
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He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#28 » by Homer38 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:53 pm

And Kobe did not want to play with Charlotte or several others teams at his draft day,so this is not a good exemple....

Kawhi is not a good exemple for different reason too.
Hello Brooklyn wrote: Kyrie is still the most overrated player in the NBA by far.

He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

Easy to look like a God when youre playing with the best player in the world.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#29 » by Ugalde » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:56 pm

i don’t believe in asterisks on rings when i’m counting them for teams. but i do believe in seeing the context of rings.

I do believe the context surrounding KD/Curry’s rings make them much less impressive and IMO don’t improve their legacy at all. Obviously excluding Curry’s first ring.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#30 » by falcolombardi » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:57 pm

LesGrossman wrote:I would like all superteam titles asterisked. That would be all of LeBrons (no matter what whack manufactured, hand picked stats his paid influencers and other heavily biased guys bring up, the simple fact remains that the only organic, naturally grown team he played on was his first cav stint, everything afterwards was the result of collusion and deck stacking); i can agree with asterisk for GSW with KD. 2015 though was a legit title, against a superteam, dunno why we should disrespect that run.

The greatest achievements in recent history were
- 2011: Dirk single handedly beating the super best friends in Miami AND the refs who did everything in their power to rig the series; meanwhile Bron and Wade mocking him for being sick (look up "coughgate" to see how to make an ass clown out of yourself).
- 2014 Spurs: Totally dismantling and exposing LeBron, and the rest of the heat. All doing it as a team, without superstar allure, posing, showboating and chest pounding. Most admirable team in the 2000's.
- 2019: Kawhi wins for the Raptors
- 2021: Giannis dominates and wins

In retrospective the single run of Dirk Nowitzki and the 2011 Mavs (not only the finals, but the whole playoffs in a peak strength western conference) beats everything LeBron has accomplished, and also the two rings KD won so easily.


warriors beat the 2015 cavs super team of lebron. james/mozgov/dellavedova?

seriously, no wonder you consider all lebron teams superteams if lebron alone makes one
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#31 » by coastalmarker99 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:57 pm

The Cavs Point differential without LeBron by year:

2004: -4.8


2005: -6.7


2006: -6.3

2007: -2.6

2008: -8.5

2009: -6.2

2010: -5.3


Those Cavs teams outside of Lebron weren’t good at all.


Vs Orlando in the 2009 ECF

Against the #1 defence in the league, LeBron averaged 39-8-8, .59.1 TS%.


The Cavs had a 112.9 O rating when he was on the court.


That is a +11.0 offense relative to Orlando’s regular-season D rating.


That would be a historic offensive playoff performance.


In 2 of Cleveland’s losses, LeBron’s on-court plus/minus was positive.


That means the Cavs outscored the Magic in those games, but the Cavs bench gave up the lead when LeBron was sitting.



In the Orlando series, LeBron had 3 teammates who averaged 10+ PPG.

But they combined for a .50.5 TS%.

In the playoffs, LeBron had a 37.4 PER and the 2nd best PER on his team had a 14.5 PER.

That’s a 22.9 PER gap which is the highest in NBA history between the #1 and #2 guy.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#32 » by Stalwart » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:58 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Stalwart wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
You have a major problem

Just look at how he performed in his career and tell me afterwards he doesn't deserve his rings or his success .... I mean, LBJ could have at least 7 with the way he performed in 2009,2017 and 2018 in the playoffs.And what about 2015 when he won 4 games(and 2 games in the finals) with a G-league caliber team.2016 was also all effort and heart.


You're not dealing with the fact that he picked his own teams, depleted his own conference, created a players agency, and jumped from team to team to win those titles. If Lebron is so good why did he have to do all that? Dirk didn't have to. Kawhi & Giannis didnt have to, Kobe didn't have to, Tim Duncan didn't have to. Why did Lebron have to?


No one can win a title alone....I mean Jordan has 0 winning season in 5 seasons without the great Scottie Pippen and never above 50 wins without Phil Jackson.LBJ won 66 and 61 games with Mo Williams and Mike Brown as HC and make the finals with this roster at 22 years old


Read on Twitter


There is a big gap between alone and handpucked, stacked superteams.

And BTW,the lakers and the cavs were lottery team before LBJ join them....


The Lakers, the NBA, and media bullied New Orleans to give up AD...so Lebron could compete. Thats called manufactured. Thats called favoritism. The Cavs had 3 top 15 players on the team before Lebron played a game for them the 2nd time around.

Do you care about competition or no?
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#33 » by coastalmarker99 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:59 pm

Lebron has basically single-handedly carried Lottery level teams to the finals in 2007 and 2018 and to the playoffs in 2009 and 2010.


The Cavs record with Lebron in 2018 was 50 wins and 32 losses.



The Cavs record without Lebron in 2019, once he left for LA, was 19 wins and 63 losses


That is a 31 win difference in the space of one year all because Lebron left.




The Cavs record was 61 wins and 21 losses in 2010.


However, the Cavs record without Lebron in 2011 once he left to Miami was 19 wins and 63 losses


That is a 42 win difference in the space of one year all because Lebron left for Miami.
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#34 » by Stalwart » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:01 am

coastalmarker99 wrote:Lebron has basically single-handedly carried Lottery level teams to the finals in 2007 and 2018 and to the playoffs in 2009 and 2010.


The Cavs record with Lebron in 2018 was 50 wins and 32 losses.



The Cavs record without Lebron in 2019, once he left for LA, was 19 wins and 63 losses


That is a 31 win difference in the space of one year all because Lebron left.




The Cavs record was 61 wins and 21 losses in 2010.


However, the Cavs record without Lebron in 2011 once he left to Miami was 19 wins and 63 losses


That is a 42 win difference in the space of one year all because Lebron left for Miami.


Yes, but we all know Lebron guts franchises before he leaves them.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#35 » by coastalmarker99 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:02 am

Cavs under Dan Gilbert's ownership:

With LeBron- 483-255

21 playoff series wins

5 Eastern Conference championships

1 NBA Championship


Without LeBron- 171 -413

0 Playoff appearances


The Cleveland Cavaliers haven’t had a winning season without LeBron James since 1998.
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#36 » by marley game » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:04 am

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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#37 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:05 am

No there is no need. Everyone knows both curry and Durant have all their rings as very easy/weak rings and their importance is quite small. LeBron has few easy rings as well but his 2016 is undoubtedly great.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#38 » by Jcity08 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:08 am

Theres no such thing as an asterisks championship. Its just another thing to gossip about and nitpick.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#39 » by Homer38 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:08 am

Stalwart wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
Stalwart wrote:
You're not dealing with the fact that he picked his own teams, depleted his own conference, created a players agency, and jumped from team to team to win those titles. If Lebron is so good why did he have to do all that? Dirk didn't have to. Kawhi & Giannis didnt have to, Kobe didn't have to, Tim Duncan didn't have to. Why did Lebron have to?


No one can win a title alone....I mean Jordan has 0 winning season in 5 seasons without the great Scottie Pippen and never above 50 wins without Phil Jackson.LBJ won 66 and 61 games with Mo Williams and Mike Brown as HC and make the finals with this roster at 22 years old


Read on Twitter


There is a big gap between alone and handpucked, stacked superteams.

And BTW,the lakers and the cavs were lottery team before LBJ join them....


The Lakers, the NBA, and media bullied New Orleans to give up AD...so Lebron could compete. Thats called manufactured. Thats called favoritism. The Cavs had 3 top 15 players on the team before Lebron played a game for them the 2nd time around.

Do you care about competition or no?


Stacked super teams :roll: :roll: :roll: ....Only 2 times his teams had a positif point differenciel with LBJ on the bench,and it was not by at lot :roll: ...So unfair

2003-04 19 CLE -2.6 +2.2
2004-05 20 CLE +2.1 +8.8
2005-06 21 CLE +4.1 +10.4
2006-07 22 CLE +6.2 +8.8
2007-08 23 CLE +2.4 +10.9
2008-09 24 CLE +15.0 +21.2
2009-10 25 CLE +11.5+16.8
2010-11 26 MIA +10.6+9.0
2011-12 27 MIA +10.4+14.0
2012-13 28 MIA +13.2+15.3
2013-14 29 MIA +7.2 +7.0
2014-15 30 CLE +10.8+16.6
2015-16 31 CLE +11.5+15.8
2016-17 32 CLE +8.4 +17.3
2017-18 33 CLE +1.4 +1.9
2018-19 34 LAL +2.4 +8.2
2019-20 35 LAL +9.0 +9.9
2020-21 36 LAL +8.6 +10.6
Hello Brooklyn wrote: Kyrie is still the most overrated player in the NBA by far.

He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

Easy to look like a God when youre playing with the best player in the world.
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Re: Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd? 

Post#40 » by coastalmarker99 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:08 am

The Cleveland Cavaliers were 4 wins and 23 losses without LeBron James between 2014-15 and 2017-18.

There's no excuse for those Cavs teams from 2015 to 2018 to be 4 and 23 without Lebron if they were a super team.



As all you have to Look at is the Warriors record Without Kevin Durant if you really want to see a super team.


Courtesy of FS1’s Nick Wright


The Warriors are 35-8 when Curry plays and Durant doesn’t.


The fact that the Warriors from 2017 to 2019 could lose a guy that's one of the best players in the NBA and still easily be the best team in the league is ridiculous
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.

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