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I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

No,next question

Homer38 wrote:No,next question

Why not?

Yes! Asterisk everyone and everything, it's the only way.

Yup! Every teams' rings, except (insert the name of your favorite team here) should have asterisks next to them.

If you look at Game Score disparity between the #1 option (LeBron) and his next 3 options (Wade) (Bosh) and (Allen) you find the following:

game score for Game 7, 2013 NBA Finals

LeBron: 32.5

Wade: 14.8

Bosh: -2.1

Allen: -2.6

Difference: 22.4 (LeBron surpassed the three combined by 22.4)

LeBron had a higher Game Score of 22.4 over the next three options (Wade, Bosh, and Allen) en route to a Finals win.



Also, Lebron won the title in 2013 with Wade averaging 15/4/3 on 45% FG shooting and on 49.8% TS for the entire playoff run

Yes unless the nets win.

Stalwart wrote:

Homer38 wrote:No,next question

Why not?

Asterisk are for me only for cheaters (like the Houston Astros in 2017 in Baseball) ... His players have done nothing against the rules

BTW, it's not the right way to judge players only by the rings ..... It's very lazy ... Judges them how his players performed, especially in big moment

Have there been any legit titles?

Capn'O wrote:Have there been any legit titles?

Not since 2015 at least according to many

Capn'O wrote:Have there been any legit titles?

17 (and I don't mean the Lakers! )

Homer38 wrote:

Stalwart wrote:

Homer38 wrote:No,next question

Why not?

Asterisk are for me only for cheaters (like the Houston Astros in 2017 in Baseball) ... His players have done nothing against the rules

BTW, it's not the right way to judge players only by the rings ..... It's very lazy ... Judges them how his players performed, especially in big moment

Nobody judges players strictly based on rings. But they should be a factor(assuming you do it the right way). The reason Lebron is in the top 5 is due to rings. Take those away, or asterisk them, and he falls out of the top 10. So you can't say titles don't matter.

No, no ring should be.

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I have no quarrel with any of them but the GSW with KD ones.

it'd be easier to asterisk the titles that don't need asterisks per realgm at this point

Stalwart wrote:

Homer38 wrote:

Stalwart wrote:
Why not?

Asterisk are for me only for cheaters (like the Houston Astros in 2017 in Baseball) ... His players have done nothing against the rules

BTW, it's not the right way to judge players only by the rings ..... It's very lazy ... Judges them how his players performed, especially in big moment

Nobody judges players strictly based on rings. But they should be a factor(assuming you do it the right way). The reason Lebron is in the top 5 is due to rings. Take those away, or asterisk them, and he falls out of the top 10. So you can't say titles don't matter.

If we remove the rings of each all-time great player, LBJ is still in the top 3-5 at least....

Homer38 wrote:

Stalwart wrote:

Homer38 wrote:
Asterisk are for me only for cheaters (like the Houston Astros in 2017 in Baseball) ... His players have done nothing against the rules

BTW, it's not the right way to judge players only by the rings ..... It's very lazy ... Judges them how his players performed, especially in big moment

Nobody judges players strictly based on rings. But they should be a factor(assuming you do it the right way). The reason Lebron is in the top 5 is due to rings. Take those away, or asterisk them, and he falls out of the top 10. So you can't say titles don't matter.

If we remove the rings of each all-time great player, LBJ is still in the top 3-5 at least....

Why would we remove everyones rings because Lebrons were manufactured?

Neither 2012 nor the 2013 Heat was a super team.

2012 saw the Heat struggle with James off-court even with Wade on the court.

2013 saw role players play well which ameliorated for the fact that Wade had fallen off and was a net negative in the playoffs (injuries didn’t help nor did the fact that he wasn’t a three-point threat).

Lebron 2012 playoffs:

43.7% of total VORP
32.6% of win shares
+10.5 LeBron ON court, -16.4 LeBron OFF court, +26.9 ON-OFF (per 100 possessions)
Heat -5.0 with Wade off, +5.5 with Battier off, +6.3 with Bosh off court
+10.5 BPM; Wade, +5.3; Bosh, +2.5

Lebron 2013 playoffs:

46.9% of total VORP
30.8% of win shares
+7.0 ON, +5.4 OFF, +1.6 ON-OFF
Heat +16.3 with Wade Off, +9.6 with Bosh off; the Heat were at their best with James and role players such as Ray Allen, Battier, and Chris Andersen on court

Lebron + Wade: +.5 per 100 possessions [+14.4 in the regular season]
Lebron + Bosh: +5.3
Lebron + Battier: +8.1
Lebron + Chalmers: +9.4
Lebron + Allen: +11.5
LeBron + Miller: +15.5
Lebron + Andersen: +17.4

Stalwart wrote:

Homer38 wrote:

Stalwart wrote:
Nobody judges players strictly based on rings. But they should be a factor(assuming you do it the right way). The reason Lebron is in the top 5 is due to rings. Take those away, or asterisk them, and he falls out of the top 10. So you can't say titles don't matter.

If we remove the rings of each all-time great player, LBJ is still in the top 3-5 at least....

Why would we remove everyones rings because Lebrons were manufactured?

wtf

Homer38 wrote:

Stalwart wrote:

Homer38 wrote:

If we remove the rings of each all-time great player, LBJ is still in the top 3-5 at least....

Why would we remove everyones rings because Lebrons were manufactured?

wtf

Ok, goodbye.