Kobe is the GOAT ISO player

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Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#1 » by Lawyershawn » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:55 am

I argue his above average efficiency numbers (and not elite efficiency of ex. Lebron or Jordan who took a different approach) is actually a strategic method of opening the floor for others by taking the most difficult shots ever seen by a basketball player, thus opening the floor for others.

See, e.g.,

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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#2 » by theforumblue » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:03 am

He understood better than anyone else in history the value of offensive rebounds.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#3 » by theonlyclutch » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:09 am

Besides the obvious observation that there's no additional points for degree of difficulty and that Kobe oftentimes puts himself in the position of attempting all those difficult shots:

It is exceedingly difficult to make an objective case that Kobe gets better results off ISOs than say Harden/Luka just to name a few.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#4 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:13 am

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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#5 » by The_Hater » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:13 am

His efficiency numbers lag below quite a few current iso scorers and more importantly, Jordan, who was a superior player in every facet of basketball.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#6 » by LarsV8 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:30 am

Uh no, not even close.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#7 » by SUPERVILLAIN » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:35 am

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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#8 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:39 am

he was one the best but have KD ranked over him. Hes unstoppable from anywhere.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#9 » by Asianiac_24 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:52 am

Kobe is the GOAT tough shot maker, I'll give you that
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#10 » by Dr Aki » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:56 am

Always worth a re/watch





Tl;dw, Kobe takes tough shots, has lower efficiency

However, in the playoffs, defenses gameplan to give him these low-PPP shots, he makes them anyway because he trains like a madman, he's one of the few players ever that maintains/improves his impact from the regular season

To put it in a modern NBA context, imagine if shots at the rim and the 3pt line were taken away (i.e. the best shots PPP-wise), Kobe still wrecks this defense because his midrange and post-game is THE counter to Moreyball at (comparatively elite) efficiency and volume.

He was, in a sense, the ultimate versatile utility scorer playmaker.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#11 » by Pelly24 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:58 am

I think at his peak he averaged like 1.2 ppp on a *ridiculous* amount of ISOs. I think I'd just say Kobe is as good a one-on-one player as anyone who's ever lived. No one besides probably Michael Jordan was better at making a variety of shots from everywhere. With his endless repertoire of moves, his size and freaky body control and explosive athleticism, he could make a shot no matter what the circumstances. I think we never saw Kobe play in like, an all-around spaced floor like players have today and I could see Kobe putting up 35 ppg on 60 or so TS% today, pretty much the same as Harden. He was at +4 TS% his final prime year (when he tore his achilles) and that I think was with a modern coach. Give 27-year-old Kobe spacing like Houston had with this soft whistle from today, I think people would look at Kobe in an extremely favorable light.

I wouldn't say he's the best ISO player ever, but he's in the convo with anyone. I wouldn't put Luka there just yet. I don't think Harden has actually done something Kobe couldn't do scoring wise if he were put in a better environment to do so. KD and MJ have the best arguments over him in my eyes.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#12 » by Strepbacter » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:10 am

Peak Kobe was certainly a GOAT level isolation scorer and player.

Just look at his insane 2006 season

1400 isolation possessions (by far the highest rate in the league)

92% percentile in efficiency

And those numbers don't even do him justice.

-zero switches on to small guards or lumbering seven footers
-zero mismatches
-played with awful spacing
-team was bottom three in the league in P/R usage

He wasn't feasting on switches with four or five out spacing like *some* other guys.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#13 » by Dutchball97 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:20 am

You can't really deny Kobe is one of the best ISO scorers ever but if we're going by the criteria that efficiency doesn't matter and taking tough shots to open up the floor is more valuable then shouldn't AI be the greatest ISO scorer ever?
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#14 » by AussieRules » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:43 am

He was ridiculous, miss him. RIP Kobe, he was the best.

Note: Kobe played winning basketball, not spreadsheet basketball.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#15 » by GregOden » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:56 am

Kyrie shoots something like 47% in iso situations, and has been consistently been either best in the league in pure iso (no screening) scoring or top 3 year in and year out. I think Kyrie has has him beat in pure iso scoring. But Kobe was also a good playmaker, which is why he was so valuable in the first three peat.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#16 » by Jimmy Recard » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:57 am

AussieRules wrote:He was ridiculous, miss him. RIP Kobe, he was the best.

Note: Kobe played winning basketball, not spreadsheet basketball.

Shooting your team in and out of games isn’t exactly winning basketball.

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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#17 » by UcanUwill » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:00 am

His ISO game is one of the most aesthetically pleasing, if thats the right term, it just looked so smooth and pleasing to watch him, but I am not sure he is the most efficient. Same reason why so many believe he was better than he actually was, because his game was so beautiful to watch, but I dont think he is GOAT at anything.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#18 » by donnieme » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:14 am

There are several GOAT level iso scorers and Kobe is up there, maybe not the goat but one of them. Although I wouldn't say taking an excessive volume of tough shots is a good way to open the floor up. The best way to open the floor is still the pass. Shooting carries no guarantee the rebound will find your teammates. Like I'm sure Klay and Draymond could grab a lot of rebounds if Steph launched more contested shots, Warriors might even still win but it's nothing comparable to what the offense looks like when he gives it up to Draymond on a 4v3.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#19 » by art_tatum » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:38 am

Kobe was meta beyond the game. He carried the viability of the nba in the 2000s by taking those tough shots. He knew it wasnt about putting the ball in the basket, it was about putting butts in the seats. Every bricked shot had more value than a safe open shot from some scrub.
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Re: Kobe is the GOAT ISO player 

Post#20 » by God Squad » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:01 am

One of the greats sure, but the GOAT ISO? Nah..hell nah actually.
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