NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

Moderators: bisme37, Dirk, ken6199, Domejandro, KingDavid, zimpy27, jamaalstar21, Harry Garris, bwgood77, infinite11285

User avatar
Dirk
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 8,952
And1: 27,136
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
     

NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1 » by Dirk » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:26 pm

Let's use this topic as a repository for nearly all covid/vaccine discussions.

We'll handle each new topic on their merits, but more often than not, if the topic offers no real fresh discussion, we'll either lock it or merge it into this one.

The aim of this topic is to prevent from having the board cluttered with new iterations of the same discussion, but at the same time have a place where users can discuss at length if they want to.

Thread etiquette
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Please refer back to this topic for some guidance.

Asking simply for some good sense. Random realgm users are not enemies. Nothing that gets written by a fellow user is ever that serious. It's just words on the internet. Do not overreact to opinions that you don't like.

A good tip: don't treat others as "pro vaxxers" or "anti vaxxers". Don't label anyone else. Treat them as unique and if you can't, simply ignore them and don't engage.

What a user writes, does not represent the GB or RealGM. So please, no generalisations.

Links of interest
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- CDC / - EMA
43/17/13
RipPizzaGuy
RealGM
Posts: 12,471
And1: 7,813
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#2 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:43 pm

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 70,010
And1: 66,846
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#3 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:49 pm

Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.
bondom34 wrote:This is stupid and you know this is stupid.
xdrta+
Head Coach
Posts: 6,041
And1: 4,298
Joined: Jun 18, 2018

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#4 » by xdrta+ » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:56 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.


Because they are rich it makes a difference? You lost me there. And I'd need to see some evidence that the majority of them have already had Covid.
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 21,617
And1: 11,522
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#5 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:56 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.


Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.
RipPizzaGuy
RealGM
Posts: 12,471
And1: 7,813
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#6 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:02 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.


What are your thoughts on those who have natural immunity like Issac?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”
RipPizzaGuy
RealGM
Posts: 12,471
And1: 7,813
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#7 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:02 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.


Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.


Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?
RipPizzaGuy
RealGM
Posts: 12,471
And1: 7,813
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#8 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:04 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.


Because they are rich it makes a difference? You lost me there. And I'd need to see some evidence that the majority of them have already had Covid.


Being rich gives them access to things like rapid daily testing. It also means that should one of them get sick from a teammate or fan, they can get reliable treatment extremely fast.
jackman
Sophomore
Posts: 177
And1: 93
Joined: Jun 03, 2011

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#9 » by jackman » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:07 pm

Come on now, everyone needs to know who to avoid for fantasy ball reasons!!!
art_tatum
Veteran
Posts: 2,681
And1: 2,261
Joined: Jun 01, 2018
 

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#10 » by art_tatum » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:10 pm

My one thing about people saying my body my choice, its a personal decision, etc.
Not if it endangers others.

Its not my body my choice when you drive drunk.

Unless youre planning to stay home forever, not go into buildings, not be near people, its not my body my choice. But guess what, most people saying my body my choice dont wear masks and arent social distancing. Sure you probably dont kill the guy youre talking to at the bar, but he might get it then spread it to his grandma later, and so forth. Its a chain effect thats why we are in year 2.

Also, same people saying that want to ban abortion bc its NOT her body her choice. They think she is killing the "unborn child" endangering someone else. Keep the same logic then.
jackman
Sophomore
Posts: 177
And1: 93
Joined: Jun 03, 2011

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#11 » by jackman » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:14 pm

jackman wrote:Come on now, everyone needs to know who to avoid for fantasy ball reasons!!!


On a serious note, everyone and everything says to do your own damn research before making decisions.

This for the most part is true but we also need to account for people that are doing research *wrong* or unknowingly spiraling down a path of misinformation.

Be patient, kind and helpful when trying to guide someone in finding useful reasearch/facts.

Social media of all sorts is for the most part is full of misinformation - not a great start.

Hospital websites, family physicians, pharmacists are great sources to start....
User avatar
Edrees
RealGM
Posts: 14,078
And1: 8,785
Joined: May 12, 2009
Contact:
         

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#12 » by Edrees » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:14 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.


What is your thoughts on those who have natural immunity like Issac?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”


I think everyone should get the vaccine, but I agree based on the research and all the studies like the one you quoted, that if you've already been infected within the last year, you probably don't need to get the vaccine and should have a good case as an exception to the mandates.

However, the unfortunate reality is that many people will take that as "Oh, then I shouldn't get vaccinated, when I actually get it I"ll get better immunity than the vaccine" when the issue isn't them, but the other people they could infect and the general transmission of the virus. As long as the priority is to get vaccinated if you've never been infected, I stand by anyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated due to the fact that they've already had Covid and have great protection against future infections.
User avatar
HomoSapien
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 31,243
And1: 21,869
Joined: Aug 17, 2009
 

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#13 » by HomoSapien » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:21 pm

From a practical level, I'm curious to know what happens when guys like Beal, Wiggins, Kyrie, etc. start missing large amounts of games. Do they get fined? Is there a loss of salary? It's one thing if a bench warmer is doing this, but how do you get past it if one of your best players who is occupying a huge chunk of your salary cap is missing tons of games while healthy?
ThreeYearPlan wrote:Bulls fans defend HomoSapien more than Rose.
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 21,617
And1: 11,522
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#14 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 pm

Edrees wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.


What is your thoughts on those who have natural immunity like Issac?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”


I think everyone should get the vaccine, but I agree based on the research and all the studies like the one you quoted, that if you've already been infected within the last year, you probably don't need to get the vaccine and should have a good case as an exception to the mandates.

However, the unfortunate reality is that many people will take that as "Oh, then I shouldn't get vaccinated, when I actually get it I"ll get better immunity than the vaccine" when the issue isn't them, but the other people they could infect and the general transmission of the virus. As long as the priority is to get vaccinated if you've never been infected, I stand by anyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated due to the fact that they've already had Covid and have great protection against future infections.


The data on natural immunity is at the moment significantly worse than the data from vaccines, which, you know, actually went through clinical trials instead of an observational survey and was proven safe and effective. We also learned from the lessening of mask mandates that a lot of anti-vaxxers either don't believe in the science of transmission or don't care about other people and are willing to lie, so there would need to be something other than the honor system. That right has been lost. There's some emerging evidence that short term natural immunity paired with vaccination is the ideal. But for people who haven't been infected and aren't vaxxed, or whose immunity has waned, should not just be trying to get covid. And right now we really need to cut down on transmission especially amongst the unvaccinated, where mutations and more variants are the most harmful. This is all hands on deck kind of stuff. I don't think folks understand how much they are taking these relatively miraculous vaccines for granted and squandering the opportunity. If we get something that is vaccine resistant, we would all be screwed.
xdrta+
Head Coach
Posts: 6,041
And1: 4,298
Joined: Jun 18, 2018

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#15 » by xdrta+ » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:25 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.


Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.


Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?


Certainly the first and probably the second. You cite one study, this cites several.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Bottom line:
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
RipPizzaGuy
RealGM
Posts: 12,471
And1: 7,813
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#16 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:38 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.


Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?


Certainly the first and probably the second. You cite one study, this cites several.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Bottom line:
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination


More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

So it seems that the evidence is pointing both ways depending on who is doing the study. As many have said, science is ever evolving, i'm sure we will learn a lot more in the coming years. Interesting that that study cites natural immunity fading faster. Wonder why they are now pushing a 3rd or in some cases even a 4th jab so soon after initial vaccination.
loserX
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 43,924
And1: 24,241
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#17 » by loserX » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:58 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?


Certainly the first and probably the second. You cite one study, this cites several.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Bottom line:
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination


More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

So it seems that the evidence is pointing both ways depending on who is doing the study. As many have said, science is ever evolving, i'm sure we will learn a lot more in the coming years. Interesting that that study cites natural immunity fading faster. Wonder why they are now pushing a 3rd or in some cases even a 4th jab so soon after initial vaccination.


This appears to be a different argument.

x = prior infection
y = vaccination

One question is whether x > y.
To me the more important question is whether (x + y) > x.
Slacktard
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,233
And1: 7,159
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
         

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#18 » by Slacktard » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:59 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.


Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.


Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?


You made two statements in that sentence... The first is complete supposition. You know for a fact they already have had COVID?

The second is nonsense. There is no correlation between physical health and COVID "immunity". There has been no person identified with a "superior natural immunity" to COVID.

You are more likely to suffer health impairments from COVID if no in good health, but it being in good health is not an immunity, it does not mean that person will NOT suffer from symptons and it does not mean the person will not be a spreader of COVID.
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 15,811
And1: 7,778
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#19 » by Catchall » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:01 pm

Read on Twitter
He/Him, Dude, Bro, Bruh
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 21,617
And1: 11,522
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#20 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:06 pm

Catchall wrote:
Read on Twitter


So the "gotcha" here is supposed to be that people indoors unmasked in close quarters are catching Covid? How many of them have been hospitalized?

Return to The General Board