NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1641 » by ZB9 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:16 pm

nikster wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
nikster wrote:Like you said flu shots are abnormally low. Either you accept that the isolation distance measures, masks etc... is the cause. Or you believe there is a concerted and coordinated effort by every country and medical organization in the world to lie about flu data to make covid look worse.


Look into the pcr test.

Im familiar with PCR, what about it?


How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1642 » by nikster » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:20 pm

ZB9 wrote:
nikster wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
Look into the pcr test.

Im familiar with PCR, what about it?


How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?

If you have symptoms and get a positive test, its something lke 99.99% chance you have COVID 19
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1643 » by ZB9 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:21 pm

Anyway im done talking about covid. Yall have fun. Im out. wont be back in this thread so dont worry.

Its back to fun diversions. This is too serious. Im going to relax and binge netflix after work. maybe the Walking Dead, 28 days later, zombieland, outbreak, world war z
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1644 » by FNQ » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:38 pm

ZB9 wrote:
nikster wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
Look into the pcr test.

Im familiar with PCR, what about it?


How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?


Are you implying that the influenza virus is a coronavirus, or that the tests can’t tell the difference ?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1645 » by ZB9 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:46 pm

FNQ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
nikster wrote:Im familiar with PCR, what about it?


How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?


Are you implying that the influenza virus is a coronavirus, or that the tests can’t tell the difference ?


"The research group of French professor Didier Raoult has recently shown that at a cycle threshold (ct) of 25, about 70% of samples remained positive in cell culture (i.e. were infectious); at a ct of 30, 20% of samples remained positive; at a ct of 35, 3% of samples remained positive; and at a ct above 35, no sample remained positive (infectious) in cell culture (see diagram).

This means that if a person gets a “positive” PCR test result at a cycle threshold of 35 or higher (as applied in most US labs and many European labs), the chance that the person is infectious is less than 3%. The chance that the person received a “false positive” result is 97% or higher.

(Note that the exact figures depend on the test and lab in question, and that if a sample was already positive at a lower cycle threshold (e.g. 20), chances of infectiousness are much higher.)

Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside, explained to the New York Times: “Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive. I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive. A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35.” According to the New York Times, up to 90% of positive tests at a cycle threshold of 40 would be negative at a ct of 30."


https://swprs.org/the-trouble-with-pcr-tests/

Ok my last post in this thread. Dont worry i mean it this time.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1646 » by xdrta+ » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:51 pm

ZB9 wrote:Ok my last post in this thread. Dont worry i mean it this time.


:lol: Sure you do.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1647 » by FNQ » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:24 pm

ZB9 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?


Are you implying that the influenza virus is a coronavirus, or that the tests can’t tell the difference ?


"The research group of French professor Didier Raoult has recently shown that at a cycle threshold (ct) of 25, about 70% of samples remained positive in cell culture (i.e. were infectious); at a ct of 30, 20% of samples remained positive; at a ct of 35, 3% of samples remained positive; and at a ct above 35, no sample remained positive (infectious) in cell culture (see diagram).

This means that if a person gets a “positive” PCR test result at a cycle threshold of 35 or higher (as applied in most US labs and many European labs), the chance that the person is infectious is less than 3%. The chance that the person received a “false positive” result is 97% or higher.

(Note that the exact figures depend on the test and lab in question, and that if a sample was already positive at a lower cycle threshold (e.g. 20), chances of infectiousness are much higher.)

Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside, explained to the New York Times: “Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive. I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive. A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35.” According to the New York Times, up to 90% of positive tests at a cycle threshold of 40 would be negative at a ct of 30."


https://swprs.org/the-trouble-with-pcr-tests/

Ok my last post in this thread. Dont worry i mean it this time.


Literally not what I asked. You implied that tests cant determine the difference between influenza and coronaviruses. This is demonstrably false.

What you are citing is the study, that was known almost a calendar year ago, that mass testing based on PCRs would give medically unreliable data, because the PCR is zoomed in on a particular area and can't differentiate between active coronavirus activity or damaged/deceased coronavirus activity. This is why once you get to a hospital they do not use PCR testing to fully determine if COVID is the cause in an individual. They use molecular testing.

This isn't presented by the SPR people because.. and I know this will shock you.. they've been discredited. They highly pushed HCQ, Ivermectin, and pushed the idea that masks made the spread worse. They made dubious claims about the science behind comparing the flu to COVID. Here's a nice write up on them:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/swiss-policy-research/

Your last post in this thread was just like every other one: full of easily debunked nonsense. You aren't right, you haven't been right, and the fact that you keep coming back despite getting booted every other day is just mindblowing. But thank you for providing a platform so that a lot of this stuff can be debunked, the misinformation here has slowed considerably lately
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1648 » by infinite11285 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:31 pm

FNQ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
nikster wrote:Im familiar with PCR, what about it?


How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?


Are you implying that the influenza virus is a coronavirus, or that the tests can’t tell the difference ?


ZB9 is implying that patients who really had the flu were diagnosed with COVID to artificially inflate the numbers for the virus. It's (yet another) dumb COVID conspiracy theory.

xdrta+ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:Ok my last post in this thread. Dont worry i mean it this time.


:lol: Sure you do.


No, it really is their last post in this thread (for a long, long while).
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1649 » by nikster » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:35 pm

ZB9 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?


Are you implying that the influenza virus is a coronavirus, or that the tests can’t tell the difference ?


"The research group of French professor Didier Raoult has recently shown that at a cycle threshold (ct) of 25, about 70% of samples remained positive in cell culture (i.e. were infectious); at a ct of 30, 20% of samples remained positive; at a ct of 35, 3% of samples remained positive; and at a ct above 35, no sample remained positive (infectious) in cell culture (see diagram).

This means that if a person gets a “positive” PCR test result at a cycle threshold of 35 or higher (as applied in most US labs and many European labs), the chance that the person is infectious is less than 3%. The chance that the person received a “false positive” result is 97% or higher.

(Note that the exact figures depend on the test and lab in question, and that if a sample was already positive at a lower cycle threshold (e.g. 20), chances of infectiousness are much higher.)

Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside, explained to the New York Times: “Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive. I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive. A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35.” According to the New York Times, up to 90% of positive tests at a cycle threshold of 40 would be negative at a ct of 30."


https://swprs.org/the-trouble-with-pcr-tests/

Ok my last post in this thread. Dont worry i mean it this time.

Love how you pivoted from a conspiracy that data of influenza cases is being supressed on a global level, to a conspiracy that the PCR is being pushed on this same global level despite it being (apparently) wildly ineffective.

Michaelm adressed why those numbers are wrong, but do you even understand the implications of what your describing here? If we had huge amounts of false positives that would mean the case fatality rate would skyrocket and covid is way deadlier than we thought. It would also mean we have way less natural immunity then we thought.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1650 » by ReddoverKobe » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:50 pm

Cartuse wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Of course it's logical. As I said, even a child...... And if those same protocols were followed permanently, the number would stay that low. But of course we don't. Bars and restaurants re-open, airlines are crowded, people crowd together for all sorts of events, and fools like the governor of Texas do everything in their power to ensure the spread of infectious disease, like banning private employers from requiring vaccines for their workers. So the numbers will jump back up. It's only logical.


Just out of curiosity, why would the Texas governor want to ensure the spread of an infectious disease?


Because democrats took covid seriously. republicans will kill an unlimited amount of people as long as they can go against the dems.

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1651 » by ItsDanger » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:22 pm

The reported case data from PCR testing is just an approximation of what actual infections are. I always laugh when they refer to cases as "infections". The experts!
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1652 » by Cartuse » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:27 pm

Cartuse wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Of course it's logical. As I said, even a child...... And if those same protocols were followed permanently, the number would stay that low. But of course we don't. Bars and restaurants re-open, airlines are crowded, people crowd together for all sorts of events, and fools like the governor of Texas do everything in their power to ensure the spread of infectious disease, like banning private employers from requiring vaccines for their workers. So the numbers will jump back up. It's only logical.


Just out of curiosity, why would the Texas governor want to ensure the spread of an infectious disease?

xdrta+ wrote:You should ask him, Texans elected him. Probably thinks it will make Biden look bad.

ReddoverKobe wrote:
Because democrats took covid seriously. republicans will kill an unlimited amount of people as long as they can go against the dems.


How is this line of thinking any different to all the conspiranoia that you guys so strongly denounce?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1653 » by FNQ » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:57 pm

Cartuse wrote:
Cartuse wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Of course it's logical. As I said, even a child...... And if those same protocols were followed permanently, the number would stay that low. But of course we don't. Bars and restaurants re-open, airlines are crowded, people crowd together for all sorts of events, and fools like the governor of Texas do everything in their power to ensure the spread of infectious disease, like banning private employers from requiring vaccines for their workers. So the numbers will jump back up. It's only logical.


Just out of curiosity, why would the Texas governor want to ensure the spread of an infectious disease?

xdrta+ wrote:You should ask him, Texans elected him. Probably thinks it will make Biden look bad.

ReddoverKobe wrote:
Because democrats took covid seriously. republicans will kill an unlimited amount of people as long as they can go against the dems.


How is this line of thinking any different to all the conspiranoia that you guys so strongly denounce?


I dislike the idea of painting conservatives with a broad brush in a way that seems inherently evil.. one, probably untrue, and two, it deflects from the important issue

Or more succinctly: the motivations don’t really matter.

Keep in mind, far left has been problematic too, and I typically line up with them
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1654 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:14 pm

FNQ wrote:[

Or more succinctly: the motivations don’t really matter.


His motivations definitely matter. But we should not just make up stuff to demonize "the other side".

But its pretty clearly a calculated political move rather than a what's actually best for the citizens of my state move. And that's really frustrating as a resident of Texas.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1655 » by jg77 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:41 pm

infinite11285 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:
How accurate do you think it is in differentiating different corona viruses?


Are you implying that the influenza virus is a coronavirus, or that the tests can’t tell the difference ?


ZB9 is implying that patients who really had the flu were diagnosed with COVID to artificially inflate the numbers for the virus. It's (yet another) dumb COVID conspiracy theory.

xdrta+ wrote:
ZB9 wrote:Ok my last post in this thread. Dont worry i mean it this time.


:lol: Sure you do.


No, it really is their last post in this thread (for a long, long while).


Yeah...because flu cases declined dramatically because ya know everyone wears mask now and wear them properly at that. Yeah, right.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1656 » by nikster » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:56 pm

ItsDanger wrote:The reported case data from PCR testing is just an approximation of what actual infections are. I always laugh when they refer to cases as "infections". The experts!

and how accurate is that approximation?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1657 » by infinite11285 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:02 pm

jg77 wrote:Yeah...because flu cases declined dramatically because ya know everyone wears mask now and wear them properly at that. Yeah, right.


It's not that simple.

Flu Cases Decline Dramatically This Season
From epidemiologist, Eili Klein:
The Johns Hopkins epidemiologist already knew that flu transmission would be reduced because people were following the public health safety precautions recommended to prevent acquiring the novel coronavirus.

With people still wearing masks, washing their hands frequently and physically distancing, he expected these measures to temper the flu this year. And, with most public schools — major transmission routes for flu — likely remaining closed, in addition to restaurant and business closures, there were even fewer opportunities for flu to spread.

Klein was correct. The flu season generally peaks between December and February each year, bringing up to 45 million illnesses, 810,000 hospitalizations and 61,000 deaths, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This year, however, as of Feb. 5, there have been only 1,455 cases in the U.S.

Though caused by a different virus from the one that causes COVID-19, the flu is also a respiratory viral disease, so everything we are doing to slow transmission of COVID-19 should also reduce transmission of flu,” says Klein, an associate professor of emergency medicine at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.


A sharp drop in flu cases during COVID-19 pandemic
From Stephen Kissler, a research fellow in the Department of Immunology and Infectious Diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health:
Precautions taken to fight the COVID-19 pandemic, including wearing masks and distancing, are likely the major reason for a steep decline of flu cases in the U.S., according to experts.

Stephen Kissler, a research fellow in the Department of Immunology and Infectious Diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, said in a February 11, 2021 Vox article that while more people received a flu vaccine this year, the sharp drop in cases was probably largely driven by mask-wearing and distancing. Kissler suggested that wearing masks in the future could be an effective way of helping control flu outbreaks. “Wearing masks in the wintertime, I think it’s something that might be here to stay,” he said.


Why the Flu Season Basically Disappeared This Year
From Dr. Casey Kelley, a family medicine physician and the founder and medical director of Case Integrative Health in Chicago:
The closure of schools also contributed to this year’s low flu activity.

According to Kelley, children have less immunity to the flu since their immune systems haven’t been exposed to many pathogens.

SchoolsTrusted Source are also high-contact environments, making kids particularly susceptible to catching and transmitting the flu.

Past evidence suggests kids are the number one source responsible for bringing the flu into households.

Like schools, offices are flu hotspots.

Flu germs can live on common surfaces — like doorknobs or the copy machine — for up to 24 hours. They also shoot through the air when a person coughs, sneezes, or exhales.

“Public transit, office buildings and business travel are all high-contact events that are down significantly [this year],” Kelley said.


There are many, many articles from credible sources on this subject; but, let's examine the source of this bogus claim.

USA Today Fact Check: Flu cases declined during 2020-2021 season compared to previous years – but not by 379M
Cooler temperatures and flu vaccines have returned, and with them so has misinformation about flu cases and COVID-19.

A Sept. 25 Facebook post that accrued more than 9,800 shares in four days claims the number of flu cases vastly decreased within one year.

"Imagine believing flu cases dropped by 379,998,178 in one year?" reads the screenshot of an April 11 tweet by user @cissylala.

The original tweet accrued almost 800 retweets and 3,000 likes as of Sept. 29.

Fact check:Flu activity is low so far, likely because of pandemic precautions

The text plays on various conspiracy theories, which independent fact-checking organizations have debunked, including some that argue flu cases decreased because COVID-19 was actually a "seasonal" flu and people were being diagnosed with the virus instead of the flu.


I'm more inclined to agree with actual medical experts than a garbage conspiracy that originated on Facebook. If you still remain skeptical, ask your own doctor. Your doctor can clear up any confusion that you may have.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1658 » by KhalilS » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:10 pm

The flu disappeared in every place that tests for it, not only the flu, but HCOV and thankfully RSV (which made a vicious comeback this spring), the reason is not the masks, it disappeared also in places with no masking like Sweden, the most acceptable explanation is viral interference theory.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1659 » by jg77 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:21 pm

Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
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Re: NBA Spokesman: “Any player who elects not to comply with local vaccination mandates will not be paid for games” 

Post#1660 » by Cyrusman122000 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:21 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:
Cyrusman122000 wrote:Why don’t teams just trade any players who don’t want to get vaccinated? The only cities that are an issue are SF, New York and probably LA very soon. There are 25 other cities they can go to.

If I’m Wiggins I’d demand to be traded to either the Heat, Magic, Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, or Suns.

But why would any team that is 100% vaccinated want to deal with this issue and take on the potential extra health risk?


I mean there’s millions of people who aren’t vaccinated and that isn’t a rule in those cities. Those players and staff are already vaccinated. Let Irving deal with his own consequences

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