NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1721 » by michaelm » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:10 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:As a poster wisely said over on the Celtics forum, science is science. It doesn't care what you think. It doesn't care if you distrust the government or big pharma. It doesn't care about your personal liberty. The science is overwhelming that the vaccines work and that those who refuse to take them endanger themselves and others. End of story.

When asked to comment on Bishop Berkeley's 18th century theory that the material world doesn't really exist (and the corollary that Newtonian physics was incorrect), Dr. Johnson went over to a large rock and started beating his head against it until he started to bleed. "I refute it thus!" Johnson exclaimed.


I guess you could say I understand science somewhat. I was an Air Force meteorologist. A staff weather officer back in the day. On the way to getting my bachelor of science (even though it was in mathematics) I do remember studying the scientific method. I later earned a master’s of science in education. Taught at various levels k-12, also and I including was a college facilitator in the past.

I am also a Christian. Started going to Sunday school maybe 55 years ago when I was in kindergarten. The Christian Bible has 66 different books starting with Genesis and ending with Revelations. I bring that up to interject the idea of a Creator or divinity responsible for what we mortals can only best describe scientifically.

I remember Newton’s laws of physics. I’m sort of familiar with quantum physics. I’m no virologist But I do have a basic understanding of what the human genome is. DNA and RNA I’ve heard of. The science behind the coronavirus?

Now that I’ve said a whole Lotta nothing I will say that forcing everyone to take the vaccine would be one way for some end of times prophecy come true. Won’t go into mark of the beast. Will say that in theory a malevolent entity could make a vaccine that would wipe us out in time.

I have no opinion about anything. Thanks. I am double vaccinated.

Absolutely no one should be forcibly vaccinated.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1722 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:14 pm

I hope Kyrie says “I don’t want to take the shot so you go on without me.”

Either that or I hope he plays fake humble and takes the shot just to go along…But that would really require him to swallow everything he believes in and suck it up for the force of powers against him.

People who make grant statements like we all need to/MUST take the shot are full of **** in my opinion.
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1723 » by mulamutti » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:26 pm

michaelm wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:As a poster wisely said over on the Celtics forum, science is science. It doesn't care what you think. It doesn't care if you distrust the government or big pharma. It doesn't care about your personal liberty. The science is overwhelming that the vaccines work and that those who refuse to take them endanger themselves and others. End of story.

When asked to comment on Bishop Berkeley's 18th century theory that the material world doesn't really exist (and the corollary that Newtonian physics was incorrect), Dr. Johnson went over to a large rock and started beating his head against it until he started to bleed. "I refute it thus!" Johnson exclaimed.


I guess you could say I understand science somewhat. I was an Air Force meteorologist. A staff weather officer back in the day. On the way to getting my bachelor of science (even though it was in mathematics) I do remember studying the scientific method. I later earned a master’s of science in education. Taught at various levels k-12, also and I including was a college facilitator in the past.

I am also a Christian. Started going to Sunday school maybe 55 years ago when I was in kindergarten. The Christian Bible has 66 different books starting with Genesis and ending with Revelations. I bring that up to interject the idea of a Creator or divinity responsible for what we mortals can only best describe scientifically.

I remember Newton’s laws of physics. I’m sort of familiar with quantum physics. I’m no virologist But I do have a basic understanding of what the human genome is. DNA and RNA I’ve heard of. The science behind the coronavirus?

Now that I’ve said a whole Lotta nothing I will say that forcing everyone to take the vaccine would be one way for some end of times prophecy come true. Won’t go into mark of the beast. Will say that in theory a malevolent entity could make a vaccine that would wipe us out in time.

I have no opinion about anything. Thanks. I am double vaccinated.

Absolutely no one should be forcibly vaccinated.


This general tone of "no one can tell me what to do" is terribly overdone in the US. I'm American, live in America but have also lived in many parts of the world (Asia, Canada) and travelled to every continent and over 50 countries. There are several "free" countries in the world, that accept mandated vaccinations or other regulatory/government mandatory policies. Many of these countries have way higher happiness indexes, health indexes, etc. than USA.

I reject the blind notion that there shouldn't be mandatory policies, and that the government can't tell me what to do. I can't be naked in public, I can't drive a tank on the roads, women can't even have abortions in certain states. So there are plenty of mandatory public policies, largely designed for public good. Mandatory vax policy is 100% designed to save lives overall, and its purpose is not to invade personal health. There is also no evidence of vaccinations being bad for you. So all in all, Kyries position is just moronic to me.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1724 » by Cartuse » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:29 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:As a poster wisely said over on the Celtics forum, science is science. It doesn't care what you think. It doesn't care if you distrust the government or big pharma.

I'm confused, are you talking about Science or about your idea of God?

The scientific method is a method. Science is the application of that method to philosophical presuppositions and axioms. There is this thing called epistemology you know. Science is not a living independent body of divine revelated knowledge. It's built by humans and for humans. It absolutely cares about what humans think because it's born out of those thoughts.

Curmudgeon wrote:It doesn't care about your personal liberty.

Do you?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1725 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:29 pm

mulamutti wrote:
michaelm wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I guess you could say I understand science somewhat. I was an Air Force meteorologist. A staff weather officer back in the day. On the way to getting my bachelor of science (even though it was in mathematics) I do remember studying the scientific method. I later earned a master’s of science in education. Taught at various levels k-12, also and I including was a college facilitator in the past.

I am also a Christian. Started going to Sunday school maybe 55 years ago when I was in kindergarten. The Christian Bible has 66 different books starting with Genesis and ending with Revelations. I bring that up to interject the idea of a Creator or divinity responsible for what we mortals can only best describe scientifically.

I remember Newton’s laws of physics. I’m sort of familiar with quantum physics. I’m no virologist But I do have a basic understanding of what the human genome is. DNA and RNA I’ve heard of. The science behind the coronavirus?

Now that I’ve said a whole Lotta nothing I will say that forcing everyone to take the vaccine would be one way for some end of times prophecy come true. Won’t go into mark of the beast. Will say that in theory a malevolent entity could make a vaccine that would wipe us out in time.

I have no opinion about anything. Thanks. I am double vaccinated.

Absolutely no one should be forcibly vaccinated.


This general tone of "no one can tell me what to do" is terribly overdone in the US. I'm American, live in America but have also lived in many parts of the world. (Asia, Canada) and travelled to every continent and over 50 countries. I only say this to make my point that there are several "free" countries, that accept mandated vaccinations or other regulatory/government mandatory policies. Many of these countries have way higher happiness indexes, health indexes, etc. than USA. I reject the blind notion that there shouldn't be mandatory policies, and that the government can't tell me what to do. I can't be naked in public, I can't drive a tank on the roads, etc. In fact women can't even have abortions in certain states. So there are plenty of mandatory public policies, largely designed for public good. Mandatory vax policy is 100% designed to save lives overall, and its purpose is not to invade personal health. There is also no evidence of vaccinations being bad for you. So all in all, Kyries position is just moronic to me.


Know what you did was assume he thinks no one is going to tell him what to do.

Under martial law or war time rules people can be killed. People can be forced to be vaccinated against certain diseases in theory.

Kyrie Irving is a millionaire who already has a championship ring. He cannot play basketball in his home cord because of that particular state or city’s rules. No one is saying he hast to take a Covid shot but you.
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1726 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:29 pm

It is moronic to assume you know exactly what another person thinks
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1727 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:30 pm

ESPN and other media create narratives and a lot of people. What one person says gets repeated 1000 Times by a bunch of minions
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

AFM wrote:Don't sleep on these white bois. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1728 » by mulamutti » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:32 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
mulamutti wrote:
michaelm wrote:Absolutely no one should be forcibly vaccinated.


This general tone of "no one can tell me what to do" is terribly overdone in the US. I'm American, live in America but have also lived in many parts of the world. (Asia, Canada) and travelled to every continent and over 50 countries. I only say this to make my point that there are several "free" countries, that accept mandated vaccinations or other regulatory/government mandatory policies. Many of these countries have way higher happiness indexes, health indexes, etc. than USA. I reject the blind notion that there shouldn't be mandatory policies, and that the government can't tell me what to do. I can't be naked in public, I can't drive a tank on the roads, etc. In fact women can't even have abortions in certain states. So there are plenty of mandatory public policies, largely designed for public good. Mandatory vax policy is 100% designed to save lives overall, and its purpose is not to invade personal health. There is also no evidence of vaccinations being bad for you. So all in all, Kyries position is just moronic to me.


Know what you did was assume he thinks no one is going to tell him what to do.

Under martial law or war time rules people can be killed. People can be forced to be vaccinated against certain diseases in theory.

Kyrie Irving is a millionaire who already has a championship ring. He cannot play basketball in his home cord because of that particular state or city’s rules. No one is saying he hast to take a Covid shot but you.


i don't get what you're saying. I didn't say Kyrie has to take a shot. The local laws asks Kyrie to do so if he wants to play. What I am saying is that Kyrie is a moron, and I dont see much logical reasoning behind not taking the vaccine. I would also prefer if we had a federal vaccine mandate (outside of a doctor's official recommendation not to), cuz its the obvious right thing to do.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1729 » by Mickey8 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:09 pm

michaelm wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
michaelm wrote:Pretty much, yes. Very smart basketball player though.

So Bogut is an expert on basketball and politicians are experts on how to run your life? I think I get it now.

No, but they have been voted in by the populace to run the country, and are advised by people who have been trained in public health not all of whom I necessarily rate highly individually btw. Bogut is a basketball player who has never stood for public office in Australia as far as I am aware.

On second thoughts I was wrong to discourage you from dogma, you display little capacity for logical argument.


So the governments are not prone to corruption 8-)
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1730 » by ItsDanger » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:17 pm

The vulnerable have been mostly vaccinated. Now onto the profitable.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1731 » by Curmudgeon » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:26 pm

Cartuse wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:As a poster wisely said over on the Celtics forum, science is science. It doesn't care what you think. It doesn't care if you distrust the government or big pharma.

I'm confused, are you talking about Science or about your idea of God?

The scientific method is a method. Science is the application of that method to philosophical presuppositions and axioms. There is this thing called epistemology you know. Science is not a living independent body of divine revelated knowledge. It's built by humans and for humans. It absolutely cares about what humans think because it's born out of those thoughts.

Curmudgeon wrote:It doesn't care about your personal liberty.

Do you?


Science isn't God. It's simply objective reality. Kyrie professed to believe that the earth is flat. That's fine until you try to program an autopilot in an airplane. You will crash on any long flight if the program does not account for the curvature of the earth. You may want the freedom to fly in a straight line, but reality will intervene before you've gone too far.

As for personal liberty, it's fine until it starts harming others. Free speech doesn't give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater.

Lastly, I'll take life with slightly less liberty over death. Only a tiny percentage (1.2% in a recent study) of the over 700,000 Americans (and countless millions worldwide) who have died from covid-19 were vaccinated. The deaths are almost exclusively among the unvaccinated. There is no liberty in the grave. You can't have a beer, make love or watch basketball.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1732 » by Cartuse » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:36 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Science isn't God. It's simply objective reality.

Lol

Curmudgeon wrote:Lastly, I'll take life over liberty.

Ok.
Curmudgeon wrote:There is no liberty in the grave.

Speaking from experience?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1733 » by Curmudgeon » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:14 pm

Cartuse wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:There is no liberty in the grave.

Speaking from experience?


Hey, if you think there is, feel free to jump off a building. But if you are not vaccinated, stay home please.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1734 » by Da ThRONe » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:58 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
Cartuse wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:As a poster wisely said over on the Celtics forum, science is science. It doesn't care what you think. It doesn't care if you distrust the government or big pharma.

I'm confused, are you talking about Science or about your idea of God?

The scientific method is a method. Science is the application of that method to philosophical presuppositions and axioms. There i

s this thing called epistemology you know. Science is not a living independent body of divine revelated knowledge. It's built by humans and for humans. It absolutely cares about what humans think because it's born out of those thoughts.

Curmudgeon wrote:It doesn't care about your personal liberty.

Do you?


Science isn't God. It's simply objective reality. Kyrie professed to believe that the earth is flat. That's fine until you try to program an autopilot in an airplane. You will crash on any long flight if the program does not account for the curvature of the earth. You may want the freedom to fly in a straight line, but reality will intervene before you've gone too far.

As for personal liberty, it's fine until it starts harming others. Free speech doesn't give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater.

Lastly, I'll take life with slightly less liberty over death. Only a tiny percentage (1.2% in a recent study) of the over 700,000 Americans (and countless millions worldwide) who have died from covid-19 were vaccinated. The deaths are almost exclusively among the unvaccinated. There is no liberty in the grave. You can't have a beer, make love or watch basketball.


Answer this why does a non vaxxed person pose a greater risk to a vaxxed person than another vaxxed person? If the vaxx works then it's protecting you. If that's the case other people's vaccination shouldn't matter.

You mentioned taking less liberty for life. 1st that goes against everything the US was founded on. Next it assumes that the same forces taking said liberties won't continue to take additional liberties until it becomes a level you aren't comfortable with. Never forget slavery was once "legal" in this country. Would you be willing to accept being someone slave if it meant your life was without any risk?
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1735 » by zimpy27 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:20 pm

Da ThRONe wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
Cartuse wrote:I'm confused, are you talking about Science or about your idea of God?

The scientific method is a method. Science is the application of that method to philosophical presuppositions and axioms. There i

s this thing called epistemology you know. Science is not a living independent body of divine revelated knowledge. It's built by humans and for humans. It absolutely cares about what humans think because it's born out of those thoughts.


Do you?


Science isn't God. It's simply objective reality. Kyrie professed to believe that the earth is flat. That's fine until you try to program an autopilot in an airplane. You will crash on any long flight if the program does not account for the curvature of the earth. You may want the freedom to fly in a straight line, but reality will intervene before you've gone too far.

As for personal liberty, it's fine until it starts harming others. Free speech doesn't give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater.

Lastly, I'll take life with slightly less liberty over death. Only a tiny percentage (1.2% in a recent study) of the over 700,000 Americans (and countless millions worldwide) who have died from covid-19 were vaccinated. The deaths are almost exclusively among the unvaccinated. There is no liberty in the grave. You can't have a beer, make love or watch basketball.


Answer this why does a non vaxxed person pose a greater risk to a vaxxed person than another vaxxed person? If the vaxx works then it's protecting you. If that's the case other people's vaccination shouldn't matter.


You mentioned taking less liberty for life. 1st that goes against everything the US was founded on. Next it assumes that the same forces taking said liberties won't continue to take additional liberties until it becomes a level you aren't comfortable with. Never forget slavery was once "legal" in this country. Would you be willing to accept being someone slave if it meant your life was without any risk?


To quote George Costanza - "we are living in a society!"

Vaccine isn't 100% effective. Especially to the elderly, immunocompromised or those that are too young. It's a seatbelt but you can still be hit and killed or damaged long-term.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1736 » by Da ThRONe » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:55 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Da ThRONe wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
Science isn't God. It's simply objective reality. Kyrie professed to believe that the earth is flat. That's fine until you try to program an autopilot in an airplane. You will crash on any long flight if the program does not account for the curvature of the earth. You may want the freedom to fly in a straight line, but reality will intervene before you've gone too far.

As for personal liberty, it's fine until it starts harming others. Free speech doesn't give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater.

Lastly, I'll take life with slightly less liberty over death. Only a tiny percentage (1.2% in a recent study) of the over 700,000 Americans (and countless millions worldwide) who have died from covid-19 were vaccinated. The deaths are almost exclusively among the unvaccinated. There is no liberty in the grave. You can't have a beer, make love or watch basketball.


Answer this why does a non vaxxed person pose a greater risk to a vaxxed person than another vaxxed person? If the vaxx works then it's protecting you. If that's the case other people's vaccination shouldn't matter.


You mentioned taking less liberty for life. 1st that goes against everything the US was founded on. Next it assumes that the same forces taking said liberties won't continue to take additional liberties until it becomes a level you aren't comfortable with. Never forget slavery was once "legal" in this country. Would you be willing to accept being someone slave if it meant your life was without any risk?


To quote George Costanza - "we are living in a society!"

Vaccine isn't 100% effective. Especially to the elderly, immunocompromised or those that are too young. It's a seatbelt but you can still be hit and killed or damaged long-term.


It's an unfully tested seatbelt that has the potential to do more harm than good. So at the very least it should be a person choice to make without fear of discrimination.

We live in a society. But as a society we've done things that many of us would all agree with the power of hindsight was completely unacceptable. If all we do is let the authorities tell us what to do unchecked we are responsible for the outcomes. That's why the people who founded this country made it an priority to not put fear over individuals freedoms.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1737 » by NyKnicks1714 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:56 pm

Han Solo wrote:I understand what you’re saying. I appreciate the way you responded.

So I’ll say this - In my personal experience, the vaccine isn’t slowing this current strain down.

I hope there is a vaccine that does. I’ve had a front row seat for this one. Got it myself, and it was terrible. It wasn’t just the people in my household. It’s this entire area.

I’m from Michigan. Don’t know if that makes a difference. But this current Covid is much worse than the one that was around this area a year ago.

Someone I love was in the hospital with Covid. She’s vaccinated. And every patient but one that was in there was vaccinated.

So - to appease to the vaccine crowd. Don’t listen to me. I’m just saying what I’ve seen. Doesn’t mean it’s what the government wants you to think.


This is indicative of a fairly common theme, of people disregarding trends because their own personal experiences, and it's to say the least, very problematic. It's no different than someone refusing to give up smoking because their grandpa smoked 2 packs a day and lived to 98, or a person not wearing a seat belt because they know someone who got into an accident and couldn't get out of the car.

Most of the people who are dying and experiencing serious illness as a result of Covid right now are unvaccinated. That's just factual. You just happen to know a few people who are in the minority, and it's clouding your ability to believe the actual facts.
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1738 » by FNQ » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:57 pm

Pulled this off the CA board, more for discussion purposes right now, but I've also sent it to a few people who are really knowledgeable to get their thoughts:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/12/1044553048/covid-data-vaccines-breakthrough-infections-transmission

Ross Kedl, an immunologist at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, will point out to anyone who cares to listen that basic immunology suggests the virus of a vaccinated person who gets infected will be different from the virus of an infected unvaccinated person.

That's because vaccinated people have already made antibodies to the coronavirus. Even if those antibodies don't prevent infection, they still "should be coating that virus with antibody and therefore helping prevent excessive downstream transmission," Kedl says. And a virus coated with antibodies won't be as infectious as a virus not coated in antibodies.


If we have undersold the transmissibility of breakthrough cases (this logically tracks, but we need more peer-review and studies to verify), then this puts a huge damper on the anti-vaccination argument. Not to say it was a good one before, but something like this would effectively dismiss it
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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1739 » by Sedale Threatt » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:59 pm

The dumbest people on Earth

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Re: NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread 

Post#1740 » by davidv2001 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:00 pm

If a player doesn’t want to follow protocols and local vaccine mandates, nobody is saying they have to. They just simply have to miss games and forego a large portion of their salary.

Also, parents are required to submit immunization records for their children when they are enrolled in public school, private school, daycare or college. The military will not deploy a soldier that has not received certain mandatory vaccinations. Companies that send employees overseas make those employees get international travel vaccinations before going. Finally, if you blatantly disregard a health and safety mandate from your employer, you will be terminated, and considering virtually all employment in America is classified as “at will,” there’s nothing protecting you if it happens.

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