Foul-baiting rule change is ON

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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#121 » by ADMVP » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 pm

OKCfanSinceSGA wrote:Please please stick with this rule. It will give the fans nonstop comedy highlights and improve the game. Next address the moving screens. Then we will see defenders truly have a shot.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#122 » by Soulyss » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:39 pm

lonniefire wrote:It’s messed up Curry is the poster boy of this new rule being that he’s the first to experience it lol. The Curry haters will remember this lol.


I don't know why people consider Curry the poster boy... Harden and to a lesser extent, Trae are the worst offenders BY FAR.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#123 » by ForeverTFC » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:49 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:I wonder what happens if the player takes a step in and pulls up. This prevents the "unnatural" issue but it moves these from 3 to 2 shot fouls. Seems like a reasonable counter...also could get defenders jumping stupidly hurt.


I don't think that's an issue. The problem is jumping forward or to the side. If you fall for a pump fake, all is fair game long as the offensive player doesn't jump into the foul in my opinion.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#124 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:03 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:I wonder what happens if the player takes a step in and pulls up. This prevents the "unnatural" issue but it moves these from 3 to 2 shot fouls. Seems like a reasonable counter...also could get defenders jumping stupidly hurt.


I don't think that's an issue. The problem is jumping forward or to the side. If you fall for a pump fake, all is fair game long as the offensive player doesn't jump into the foul in my opinion.


The thing is if a defender jumps forward, and most do. If a player steps into them there, then they don't have landing space. Can also get him fouled.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#125 » by ForeverTFC » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:09 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:I wonder what happens if the player takes a step in and pulls up. This prevents the "unnatural" issue but it moves these from 3 to 2 shot fouls. Seems like a reasonable counter...also could get defenders jumping stupidly hurt.


I don't think that's an issue. The problem is jumping forward or to the side. If you fall for a pump fake, all is fair game long as the offensive player doesn't jump into the foul in my opinion.


The thing is if a defender jumps forward, and most do. If a player steps into them there, then they don't have landing space. Can also get him fouled.


I think you have to define steps into them. If the defender is going up and the offensive player goes into them directly, I think that's a foul. Not much different than what happens under the basket at that point.

But if they angle themselves toward the defender that's iffy. My main objection is jumping into an airborn player at an angle or to the side.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#126 » by kuclas » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:35 pm

I think this rule affects perimeter players much more than bigs down low.

The trae young of the world backing up into fouls annoys me the most. Harden and curry annoys as well but not as much as trae young.

But I’d rather see it as offensive foul than a non call.

But we know the nba like to have higher scores.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#127 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:36 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
I don't think that's an issue. The problem is jumping forward or to the side. If you fall for a pump fake, all is fair game long as the offensive player doesn't jump into the foul in my opinion.


The thing is if a defender jumps forward, and most do. If a player steps into them there, then they don't have landing space. Can also get him fouled.


I think you have to define steps into them. If the defender is going up and the offensive player goes into them directly, I think that's a foul. Not much different than what happens under the basket at that point.

But if they angle themselves toward the defender that's iffy. My main objection is jumping into an airborn player at an angle or to the side.


Step forward, up vertically to shoot but effectively taking the shot simi under the guy to assure contact. Hard to articulate, but effectively 1-2 quick baby steps in or a jump stop forward (not sure how they'd get a fake on a guy and get away with a jump stop but I've seen head fakes get guys off their feet).
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#128 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:38 pm

kuclas wrote:I think this rule affects perimeter players much more than bigs down low.

The trae young of the world backing up into fouls annoys me the most. Harden and curry annoys as well but not as much as trae young.

But I’d rather see it as offensive foul than a non call.

But we know the nba like to have higher scores.


Embiid isn't above this stuff either..but I agree the player behind and you just stop stuff was pretty bush league
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#129 » by celticfan42487 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:39 pm

Pre Seas On

They'll call it later on when it matters
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#130 » by queridiculo » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:23 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
wtf? What was unnatural about Harden's first shot? Unless he hooked him and I missed it due to angle. Otherwise that's not what the new rule is about.

The second one, glad that wasn't a defensive foul but....that seems like an obvious no call.

He clearly tried to create contact, which is part of the new rule


He took a shot while someone was MAKING contact. At least from what I see it looks like he's driving, the guy has an arm or hand or something on Harden, so he pulls up. Can a defender now just make contact to prevent a shot because it's unnatural to pull up when you're being fouled?


Making contact is not illegal as long as it does not impede the offensive player.

Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player’s speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm.


If you get a higher quality version you can kind of guess what the ref is reacting to.

The defender's hand makes contact with Harden, who proceeds to hook the defenders arm on a pull up when he senses the contact.

Hooking is one of the points of emphasis.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#131 » by Lockdown504090 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:27 pm

kuclas wrote:I think this rule affects perimeter players much more than bigs down low.

The trae young of the world backing up into fouls annoys me the most. Harden and curry annoys as well but not as much as trae young.

But I’d rather see it as offensive foul than a non call.

But we know the nba like to have higher scores.

a representative for the referees said these rule changes are not going to apply "too far inside the 3point line" unless its something egregious, like when joel really starts cheesing the rules.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#132 » by Im Coming Home » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:34 pm

Trae Young crapping his pants rn about this.. half his career is based off this play. lol.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#133 » by DaPessimist » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:07 am

Can we sticky this thread and keep adding highlights?

I love to watch foul-baiting fail.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#134 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:03 am

queridiculo wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:He clearly tried to create contact, which is part of the new rule


He took a shot while someone was MAKING contact. At least from what I see it looks like he's driving, the guy has an arm or hand or something on Harden, so he pulls up. Can a defender now just make contact to prevent a shot because it's unnatural to pull up when you're being fouled?


Making contact is not illegal as long as it does not impede the offensive player.

Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player’s speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm.


If you get a higher quality version you can kind of guess what the ref is reacting to.

The defender's hand makes contact with Harden, who proceeds to hook the defenders arm on a pull up when he senses the contact.

Hooking is one of the points of emphasis.


gotcha, that would explain it then. From the video posted, it looked like the defender had an arm over harden's. If harden's hooking then fair enough. From the video there was on the surface nothing "unnatural" about the shot.

Though I can't say I'm in support of some of these rules making it so lazy defense can't get penalized as easily either. I'm all for getting some of the absurd out of the game. Harden somehow getting players fully on his back...the weird circus leaping into defenders...and yeah I'm ok getting the hooking stuff out too. But at the same time I appreciate the skill and talent in getting a defender off balance and forcing them into a foul too.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#135 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:04 am

Lockdown504090 wrote:
kuclas wrote:I think this rule affects perimeter players much more than bigs down low.

The trae young of the world backing up into fouls annoys me the most. Harden and curry annoys as well but not as much as trae young.

But I’d rather see it as offensive foul than a non call.

But we know the nba like to have higher scores.

a representative for the referees said these rule changes are not going to apply "too far inside the 3point line" unless its something egregious, like when joel really starts cheesing the rules.


Chris Paul must have lobbied hard for that? Sorry couldn't help himself. hmm so the mid range suddenly is wide open for cheesing.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#136 » by Lockdown504090 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:18 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
kuclas wrote:I think this rule affects perimeter players much more than bigs down low.

The trae young of the world backing up into fouls annoys me the most. Harden and curry annoys as well but not as much as trae young.

But I’d rather see it as offensive foul than a non call.

But we know the nba like to have higher scores.

a representative for the referees said these rule changes are not going to apply "too far inside the 3point line" unless its something egregious, like when joel really starts cheesing the rules.


Chris Paul must have lobbied hard for that? Sorry couldn't help himself. hmm so the mid range suddenly is wide open for cheesing.

The reasoning they gave was because it wasn’t fair due to the amount t of space players have on the perimeter with an active dribble, which is true. In the high/mid post it’s way easier to prevent a drive and breakdown…… but it’s hard not to think what you mention is a factor. I’ll be watching the suns and 76ers to see how they call these plays
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#137 » by vital_signs » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:38 pm

I'm going to thoroughly enjoy this if the reffing stays consistent on it.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#138 » by kuclas » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:49 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:a representative for the referees said these rule changes are not going to apply "too far inside the 3point line" unless its something egregious, like when joel really starts cheesing the rules.


Chris Paul must have lobbied hard for that? Sorry couldn't help himself. hmm so the mid range suddenly is wide open for cheesing.

The reasoning they gave was because it wasn’t fair due to the amount t of space players have on the perimeter with an active dribble, which is true. In the high/mid post it’s way easier to prevent a drive and breakdown…… but it’s hard not to think what you mention is a factor. I’ll be watching the suns and 76ers to see how they call these plays

Most of embiid fouls calls he gets from 5-8 feet out aren’t shooting fouls. It’s when teams defenders try to crown him stick out their hands and not given him space. Of course embiid takes advantage by drawing the ball towards them to create contact. But refs don’t call shooting fouls a lot and just common foul. Ball out of bounds.

The perimeter guys have a more unnatural motions leaning and trying to sell the 3 point foul shot.
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#139 » by Karate Diop » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:59 pm

Soulyss wrote:
lonniefire wrote:It’s messed up Curry is the poster boy of this new rule being that he’s the first to experience it lol. The Curry haters will remember this lol.


I don't know why people consider Curry the poster boy... Harden and to a lesser extent, Trae are the worst offenders BY FAR.


Harden at a point in time was the worst in the league, but Curry abuses the rule much more than he does nowadays - but still not nearly as much as Trae...
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Re: Foul-baiting rule change is ON 

Post#140 » by Lockdown504090 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:16 pm

kuclas wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Chris Paul must have lobbied hard for that? Sorry couldn't help himself. hmm so the mid range suddenly is wide open for cheesing.

The reasoning they gave was because it wasn’t fair due to the amount t of space players have on the perimeter with an active dribble, which is true. In the high/mid post it’s way easier to prevent a drive and breakdown…… but it’s hard not to think what you mention is a factor. I’ll be watching the suns and 76ers to see how they call these plays

Most of embiid fouls calls he gets from 5-8 feet out aren’t shooting fouls. It’s when teams defenders try to crown him stick out their hands and not given him space. Of course embiid takes advantage by drawing the ball towards them to create contact. But refs don’t call shooting fouls a lot and just common foul. Ball out of bounds.

The perimeter guys have a more unnatural motions leaning and trying to sell the 3 point foul shot.

I agree... embiid is one of my fav 3 players in the last 20 years.... but the way he gets teams in the penalty as a center, and gets guys to lessen their defensive intensity in fear of the foul is revolutionary. he brings a physicality thats only a tier or two below shaq, but when you give it back to him, he feels it and gets the call.

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