2021-22 Rookie Thread

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Who will be the three best rookies?

Cade Cunningham
81
18%
Jalen Green
97
21%
Evan Mobley
61
13%
Scottie Barnes
86
19%
Jalen Suggs
38
8%
Josh Giddey
42
9%
Jonathan Kuminga
5
1%
Trey Murphy
10
2%
James Bouknight
11
2%
Other
23
5%
 
Total votes: 454

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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#101 » by chilluminati » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:43 pm

I can't wait to see more Cade! But from those small examples from summer league, I feel like Jalen Green has the experience/most NBA ready game in the draft. Not to mention he's getting more time on the floor during preseason while Cade nurses an ankle injury. Like many others have said, it's Jalen's award to lose this year.

My darkhorse is obviously gonna be Cade because bias. Not saying Cade doesn't have a chance, he's very talented. But his moves didn't look very NBA ready yet.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#102 » by everdiso » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:44 pm

zeebneeb wrote:
XTC wrote:Mobley and Barnes go #1 and #2 in a redraft. Both are legit game changers on the defensive end, with underrated offensive games. It's crazy how these two where so underappreciated by so many on this board.

Both are lengthy athletes with a natural feel for the game. It was obvious these two had the highest upside.
So your redrafting even before the season starts?

What?


I'd imagine if the prospects had had a full nba summer league and nba training camps and preseason under their belts the draft would have looked much different, yeah.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#103 » by The_Hater » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:46 pm

Madhouse wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
XTC wrote:Mobley and Barnes go #1 and #2 in a redraft. Both are legit game changers on the defensive end, with underrated offensive games. It's crazy how these two where so underappreciated by so many on this board.

Both are lengthy athletes with a natural feel for the game. It was obvious these two had the highest upside.


Except Barnes isn’t an underrated offensive player. Probably overrated because while he’s atheltic and can handle and pass, he can’t shoot to save his life right now. It’s WIP. Very Simmons-like but not as good yet.

I’m excited for his future too but a lot of Raps fans are getting ahead of themselves at this point.


He can shoot actually. Just not consistently right now especially not from 3 point range. But he has a shot. More Shaun Livingston like as a shooter than Ben Simmons.


What proof so you have that he can shoot? Statistically, going back to college, even his FT%, all scream ‘bad shooter’. The eye test says he’s a poor shooter with poor technique. And it hasn’t improved the past 4 games.

We don’t need to go out and defend the weaknesses of every player we like or even pretend they don’t exist. He needs to put in a lot of work here and it’s not happening in a week or two. More like hundreds and hundreds of hours in the gym.

I love Barnes and his potential, but I’m not going to sit here and lie to myself about the obvious.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#104 » by MugzZo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:50 pm

I like the hornets pick or Bouknight. From college through summer league to pre season. He's gonna be ready sooner rather than later.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#105 » by Madhouse » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:57 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Madhouse wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Except Barnes isn’t an underrated offensive player. Probably overrated because while he’s atheltic and can handle and pass, he can’t shoot to save his life right now. It’s WIP. Very Simmons-like but not as good yet.

I’m excited for his future too but a lot of Raps fans are getting ahead of themselves at this point.


He can shoot actually. Just not consistently right now especially not from 3 point range. But he has a shot. More Shaun Livingston like as a shooter than Ben Simmons.


What proof so you have that he can shoot? Statistically, going back to college, even his FT%, all scream ‘bad shooter’. The eye test says he’s a poor shooter with poor technique. And it hasn’t improved the past 4 games.

We don’t need to go out and defend the weaknesses of every player we like or even pretend they don’t exist. He needs to put in a lot of work here and it’s not happening in a week or two. More like hundreds and hundreds of hours in the gym.


By watching every game from him through Montverde, FSU, summer league and preseason so far. His shooting form has improved and he can knock down mid range jumpshots. It's not poor technique. He lacks a 3 point shot right now.

I just see it differently, if you disagree, fine.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#106 » by The_Hater » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:59 pm

Madhouse wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Madhouse wrote:
He can shoot actually. Just not consistently right now especially not from 3 point range. But he has a shot. More Shaun Livingston like as a shooter than Ben Simmons.


What proof so you have that he can shoot? Statistically, going back to college, even his FT%, all scream ‘bad shooter’. The eye test says he’s a poor shooter with poor technique. And it hasn’t improved the past 4 games.

We don’t need to go out and defend the weaknesses of every player we like or even pretend they don’t exist. He needs to put in a lot of work here and it’s not happening in a week or two. More like hundreds and hundreds of hours in the gym.


By watching every game from him through Montverde, FSU, summer league and preseason so far. His shooting form has improved and he can knock down mid range jumpshots. It's not poor technique. He lacks a 3 point shot right now.

I just see it differently, if you disagree, fine.


That’s not proof, his percentages, which encompass all his shooting from very distance, say otherwise. Just because he makes the odd 18 footer doesn’t make him a good shooter.

Perhaps,his shooting form has improved but I still see a hitch in it when he’s getting closer to the 3 point line.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#107 » by CraftylikeaFox » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:12 pm

rpa wrote:I'm not ready to say I was wrong about Davion Mitchell yet (I hated the pick), but he looks like he could provide elite 3+D as a rookie. We've seen the defensive prowess already, but under the radar: he's 20/41 on 3pters between preseason and summer league. He obviously won't shoot 50% in the regular season, but this small sample size combined with 45% in his senior season is pretty damn promising.

He may never be a superstar, but is looking like he may be a highly effective, under the radar kind of player like Jrue Holiday (4th in his draft class in VORP--behind Curry, Harden, and Blake, but ahead of DD, Rubio, et al).


Mitchell was the right pick for the Kings. His skill set is exactly what this team needed. He's already setting a tone for the rest of the team defensively. That's all we could've hoped for after so many years of horrendous defense.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#108 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:48 pm

CraftylikeaFox wrote:
rpa wrote:I'm not ready to say I was wrong about Davion Mitchell yet (I hated the pick), but he looks like he could provide elite 3+D as a rookie. We've seen the defensive prowess already, but under the radar: he's 20/41 on 3pters between preseason and summer league. He obviously won't shoot 50% in the regular season, but this small sample size combined with 45% in his senior season is pretty damn promising.

He may never be a superstar, but is looking like he may be a highly effective, under the radar kind of player like Jrue Holiday (4th in his draft class in VORP--behind Curry, Harden, and Blake, but ahead of DD, Rubio, et al).


Mitchell was the right pick for the Kings. His skill set is exactly what this team needed. He's already setting a tone for the rest of the team defensively. That's all we could've hoped for after so many years of horrendous defense.


Ya, he looks great and has that culture changing atitude about him that SAC desperatley needs IMO.

There are 96 minutes between the two guard spots. There is room enough for Fox, Hali and Davion. The issue will arise when the 3rd is due a new contract, but thats a while off and for now just build a team that plays hard.

Hield and to a lesser extent Davis might be an issue though. I think ideally you just have the 3 guards and maybe a vet min shooter as the 4th. Right now the rotation is really crowded. Davis has a tremendously moveable deal, but Buddy isnt going to fetch much IMO.

If I was SAC, once Davion proved rotation worth (Which will be soon if not immediatley), I would really look into moving Buddy ASAP. No rush on Davis, but if the long term idea is to build around those 3 guards they wont have room for Terence soon.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#109 » by rpa » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:13 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:Ya, he looks great and has that culture changing atitude about him that SAC desperatley needs IMO.

There are 96 minutes between the two guard spots. There is room enough for Fox, Hali and Davion. The issue will arise when the 3rd is due a new contract, but thats a while off and for now just build a team that plays hard.

Hield and to a lesser extent Davis might be an issue though. I think ideally you just have the 3 guards and maybe a vet min shooter as the 4th. Right now the rotation is really crowded. Davis has a tremendously moveable deal, but Buddy isnt going to fetch much IMO.

If I was SAC, once Davion proved rotation worth (Which will be soon if not immediatley), I would really look into moving Buddy ASAP. No rush on Davis, but if the long term idea is to build around those 3 guards they wont have room for Terence soon.


With the direction the NBA is moving--towards having at least one of (if not both of) your SG/SF being limited 3&D role players--it's not unrealistic to attempt to counter that with 3-guard lineups. Granted, you'd probably have to play pick and rolls far differently since you can't switch everything, but the 3rd guard is probably going to add more quickness, passing, and playmaking than the limited 3&D guy could.

In the Kings' case it also helps that Davion is quick/strong enough to guard some wings as well.

Point being: that 96 minutes is probably somewhere closer to 120-130 minutes; more than enough to find time for 4 guards throughout the game. If there's a problem it's probably with how the Kings close out games. Fox and Haliburton are both must plays. Hield is a must play on offense due to the spacing, but Davion is the must play on defense since he's so disruptive.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#110 » by MPM » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:15 pm

He likely won't be in serious running for RoY with so much other rookie talent out there (I think Green or Mobley will lock it up), but I've been very impressed by Giddey. Very savvy, shifty, great size, passing even better than anticipated.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#111 » by PhilBlackson » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:45 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:Mobley’s flashes are insane. In terms of what he’s capable of he’s got to be one of the 5 toolsiest players in the NBA

I think he might struggle a bit because his games so dynamic he’s going to have a less defined role and will have to do a bit of everything which will be good for him long term. As he bulks up and improves his shot he can be special

I think Mobley and Green are the ‘best player on a title team’ talents if they get there.

This class as a whole seems just insane. Loving what I’m seeing from most players.


Congrats to you guys, Mobley is the guy I know I wanted but knew there's no way he's dropping to #4. Barnes is a great consolation prize but Mobley just has superstar potential (Barnes may too but needs more development than Evan).

A big man that can move that quickly plus shoot, pass (very underrated in that regard), defend (like future DPOY potential) and rebound like that...he's just different. The Cavs will have to find a way to get him in the starting line up asap and eventually probably flip Allen down the line for a more talented wing but Evan is gonna change life in CLE in a few years...
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#112 » by everdiso » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:20 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Madhouse wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Except Barnes isn’t an underrated offensive player. Probably overrated because while he’s atheltic and can handle and pass, he can’t shoot to save his life right now. It’s WIP. Very Simmons-like but not as good yet.

I’m excited for his future too but a lot of Raps fans are getting ahead of themselves at this point.


He can shoot actually. Just not consistently right now especially not from 3 point range. But he has a shot. More Shaun Livingston like as a shooter than Ben Simmons.


What proof so you have that he can shoot? Statistically, going back to college, even his FT%, all scream ‘bad shooter’. The eye test says he’s a poor shooter with poor technique. And it hasn’t improved the past 4 games.

We don’t need to go out and defend the weaknesses of every player we like or even pretend they don’t exist. He needs to put in a lot of work here and it’s not happening in a week or two. More like hundreds and hundreds of hours in the gym.

I love Barnes and his potential, but I’m not going to sit here and lie to myself about the obvious.



Free Throw Shooting:

College Month 1: 7gms, 42.3%
College Months 2-4: 17gms, 74.7%
Summer League: 4gms, 75.0%
Preseason: 4gms, 66.7%
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#113 » by Hornet Mania » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:26 pm

Bouknight has looked like Lou Williams out there, he's been filling it up every night off the bench in preseason. He has the potential to be a rookie who makes some waves with explosive offensive nights.

Giddey was the best-looking rookie out of all the preseason opponents so far. I wasn't a huge believer in picking him 6, I thought he had a high basketball IQ but might not be more than a good role player, but he looked excellent in the OKC game. Good size, plenty of skill, with the high IQ that was expected.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#114 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:33 am

MPM wrote:He likely won't be in serious running for RoY with so much other rookie talent out there (I think Green or Mobley will lock it up), but I've been very impressed by Giddey. Very savvy, shifty, great size, passing even better than anticipated.


I think Green takes it since the keys have been handed to him, but I actually think Mobley wont put up gaudy enough stats this year to take it. He is a bit of a longer term play. GOY goes to the raw stat guys, Mobley is going to make 'wow' plays that dont show up on the box score, but he isnt going to be racking up 20ppg (Likely on 20 shot) types games like Green will. And I really like Green, just dont anticipate him being that efficient as a rookie 1st offensive option.

I think Giddey could easily be higher in ROY ranking than Mobley, but that isnt saying I would rather build around him by any means. Just think on OKC w/ basically only SGA being good enough to justify usage a guy like Josh can step in and steal a good usage%, leading to nice raw stats and a better ROY case.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#115 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:15 am

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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#116 » by God Squad » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:22 am

Since Suggs isn't getting any love in this thread I want to give him some credit. I watched the Celtics(best game) and Spurs game and came away very underwhelmed in certain factors such as handle(is he even a pg?) and jumper. But Suggs is going to be a terror defensively for guards. He just knows how to use his body to make it difficult for them. He also shows an innate ability to get blocks around the rim, be in man or help defense. He's going to be a crazy good defender in the league me thinks.

He had like two blocks at the rim on Tatum! It just sucks that I came away more impressed with Mo Bamba than Suggs from those games. I think Mo's going to have a huge year with Vuc gone.

Its early, but I think Franz was a bad or suspect pick at 8. Magic need scoring so I probably would have gone Bouk.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#117 » by DAcReator » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:44 pm

everdiso wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
God Squad wrote:100% he can't shoot. But as basketball fans we should know theres more to the game than that, especially early on when trying to earn minutes with your coach. He won't be a good scorer this year, but I'm nearly positive either he or Mobley will lead ALL rookies in impact stats. Barnes just knows how to lead an offense and get reb/assist/stls/blks with minimum turnovers. If Barnes can average 10ppg while continuing to be a beast in other categories I'd consider that a win.

I'll 100% take "Simmons-lite but not as good yet" except more of a willing shooter as rookie any day of the week.


No argument about anything you wrote here, but without a jumper defenses aren’t going to allow him to get to the rim and use his passing. He’ll be a fullcourt threat snd that’s about it.


These are weird posts - Scottie has been hitting his mid range jumpers with ease so far.


This. He may not be great.. but “can’t shoot to save his life” ??? What are you guys watching?
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#118 » by The_Hater » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:17 pm

DAcReator wrote:
everdiso wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
No argument about anything you wrote here, but without a jumper defenses aren’t going to allow him to get to the rim and use his passing. He’ll be a fullcourt threat snd that’s about it.


These are weird posts - Scottie has been hitting his mid range jumpers with ease so far.


This. He may not be great.. but “can’t shoot to save his life” ??? What are you guys watching?


He’s a very poor shooter by NBA standards. Is that better? Or do you think Layuos and 8 footers are part of the discussion here? He certainly isn’t making them with ease like the previous poster claims. His percentage from 10-23 feet isn’t that great.

He is 0-for from the arc in 5 preseason gsmes for starters. Also couldn’t make perimeter shots consistently in summer league or college. You guys defending his shooting and calling him a ‘good shooter’ are only deluding yourself at this point. We don’t want Barnes shooting from the perimeter, that would become be a very bad offensive team.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#119 » by everdiso » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:31 pm

everdiso wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Madhouse wrote:
He can shoot actually. Just not consistently right now especially not from 3 point range. But he has a shot. More Shaun Livingston like as a shooter than Ben Simmons.


What proof so you have that he can shoot? Statistically, going back to college, even his FT%, all scream ‘bad shooter’. The eye test says he’s a poor shooter with poor technique. And it hasn’t improved the past 4 games.

We don’t need to go out and defend the weaknesses of every player we like or even pretend they don’t exist. He needs to put in a lot of work here and it’s not happening in a week or two. More like hundreds and hundreds of hours in the gym.

I love Barnes and his potential, but I’m not going to sit here and lie to myself about the obvious.



Free Throw Shooting:

College Month 1: 7gms, 42.3%
College Months 2-4: 17gms, 74.7%
Summer League: 4gms, 75.0%
Preseason: 4gms, 66.7%


Updated:

Free Throw Shooting:

College Month 1: 7gms, 42.3%
College Months 2-4: 17gms, 74.7%
Summer League: 4gms, 75.0%
Preseason: 5gms, 71.4%
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#120 » by The_Hater » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:35 pm

everdiso wrote:
everdiso wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
What proof so you have that he can shoot? Statistically, going back to college, even his FT%, all scream ‘bad shooter’. The eye test says he’s a poor shooter with poor technique. And it hasn’t improved the past 4 games.

We don’t need to go out and defend the weaknesses of every player we like or even pretend they don’t exist. He needs to put in a lot of work here and it’s not happening in a week or two. More like hundreds and hundreds of hours in the gym.

I love Barnes and his potential, but I’m not going to sit here and lie to myself about the obvious.



Free Throw Shooting:

College Month 1: 7gms, 42.3%
College Months 2-4: 17gms, 74.7%
Summer League: 4gms, 75.0%
Preseason: 4gms, 66.7%


Updated:

Free Throw Shooting:

College Month 1: 7gms, 42.3%
College Months 2-4: 17gms, 74.7%
Summer League: 4gms, 75.0%
Preseason: 5gms, 71.4%


You do realize those are still poor FT% numbers right? The league average was 77.8% last season. Improvement is encouraging, even though you cherry picked 7 poor games to make some sort of point. but the conversation was about where his shooting is at today, not 2 years from now.

But thanks for helping prove my post instead of yours. You’re trying way to hard on this bud, you’re obsessed at this point. We disagree and I really don’t respect your opinions so Bye and Good luck to you.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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