2021-22 Rookie Thread

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Who will be the three best rookies?

Cade Cunningham
130
14%
Jalen Green
148
16%
Evan Mobley
187
21%
Scottie Barnes
225
25%
Jalen Suggs
51
6%
Josh Giddey
82
9%
Jonathan Kuminga
6
1%
Trey Murphy
11
1%
James Bouknight
15
2%
Other
44
5%
 
Total votes: 899

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HumbleRen
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#221 » by HumbleRen » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:23 am

I think it's fair to say Giddey is a cleaner passer, having tighter handles allows you to make more type of passes and also has tighter passing mechanics.

Barnes is able to generate more assists due to his size, athleticism and simply the feel for the game.

Both are extremely effective in their own right lol.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#222 » by DCasey91 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:50 am

Giddey is more like Rookie Ball or Rookie Rubio as a passer, (Can chuck Trae and Luka in as well of course and Ben). Means to say any pass in the NBA they all could do and also inventive ones.

Right/Left handed, Up/Down, Short/Long/ Overheard/Below, Hail Mary, The whip off the drive Ala LBJ to corner threes, easy stuff.

Actually it’s Trae that has a nice point of difference from the youngsters. He has the Nash dribble under the basket into short pass to center for a dunk/layup that I don’t see from anyone else. That’s classic point guard play.

The sick little pnr sharp right down pass to a center first or second pre season game was sweet. Trust me Giddey is going to throw some wild dimes.

Also watch him, functional wise he’s very very smart athletically. Knows when to go and and the timing down. Isn’t the quickest at all but he’s probably the smartest player in the draft right now. At the end of the day a 6”8” prodigiously talented PG should have high end upside. His game time recognition is real quick. It’s a small thing but the look up to see where the big is camped just before deciding to go the time tells me he knows exactly what he’s doing almost all of the time.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#223 » by God Squad » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:11 am

So Suggs or Giddey? Who'll be better short and long term? Both are PG's and taken one spot before/after the other. Suggs seems to have a much greater edge on the defensive end, but lacks the handle, creation and shooting ability. Giddey on the other hand posses what Suggs lacks while being a better passer, but Giddey has none of Suggs defensive chops.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#224 » by DCasey91 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:32 am

God Squad wrote:So Suggs or Giddey? Who'll be better short and long term? Both are PG's and taken one spot before/after the other. Suggs seems to have a much greater edge on the defensive end, but lacks the handle, creation and shooting ability. Giddey on the other hand posses what Suggs lacks while being a better passer, but Giddey has none of Suggs defensive chops.


Loved Suggs, loved everything about him. Work ethic/maturity, everything. Downside he’s a little smaller from College to NBA. Giddey on the otherhand has grown from NBL to NBA noticeably it’s day and night with him.

Giddey I had more concerns than Ball pre draft (same weaknesses just add body/defense/scoring).

Turns out Giddey is better at the game of basketball than Suggs is. And his body for me was a weakness is completely done a u turn, now I believe it’s going to be a massive advantage long term. See Ball and Giddey next to each other first game? Didn’t think he would but he’s going to fill out nicely.

Size and knowing how to use it matters, which Giddey has already shown consistently even before pre season (finishing).

Doesn’t mean Suggs won’t be a really good player but I think he’s more towards an athlete spectrum than a pure basketball player, whereas Giddey is a pure basketball player while having a very (wingspan the only downside) good sized frame to punish mismatches and exploit things like Luka/Ball does it. If you can see over the top it can put you at such an advantage.

Ball and Giddey aren’t near Luka lvl at exploiting it to the max but both are to be a handful over the years.

I wasn’t too far off comparing the two from first glance ages back:

Ball - Had a couple of coffees before a game (skinnier, fidgety, zippier, wildstyle)
Gidddy - Smoked a blunt and ate a cheese burger before a game (Bulkier, more cerebral, composed)

Giddey is really Ball’s long lost foreign brother lol.

When Josh got that offensive rebound for the putback and and 1... Lamelo was like 4 feet away, they both walked around in like a half circle the same way, and both one did the jersey sweat wipe the other the hair adjustment at the same time also. You can check it on the highlight replay it was uncanny lmao
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#225 » by OrlMagic05 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:46 pm

I think a little bit too much has been put into preseason by some of you. The Jalen's (Green & Suggs) struggled in preseason and already most of you are trying to call them busts or call Giddey & Barnes the best players in the draft after preseason. Lets get a few regular season games in before we go that route...All of these rookies will have bad games and some really good games, but lets try and be realistic.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#226 » by DTP » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:47 pm

God Squad wrote:
DTP wrote:Pistons have been very sketchy with Cade's ankle injury......I don't trust/like it at all.

Maybe they're hiding him? Maybe it's worse than they let on?


It's so frustrating that our local media is so soft that no one will even push/challenge Casey on his non-answers every damn day. Casey basically says "he'll play when he plays" after calling it minor for 3 weeks now and beat writers are more concerned with scolding fans on social media for being upset that we aren't getting answers.

I really wish Toronto would take Casey back....
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#227 » by Jadoogar » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:00 pm

PrinceAli wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:“Flair” isn’t what makes a player a good passer lol. And Scottie has made several flashy passes as well anyways

What really matters is Assist/turnover ratio and advanced stats:
Scottie had 5.6 assists to 1.8 turnovers
Giddey had 5.0 assists to 2.2 turnovers

Scottie had 29.6 Ast% on 17.8% usg
Giddey had 29.9 Ast% on 21% usg


Based on this, Barnes is the better passer


Barnes is playing with much better teammates than Giddey is, it's probably easier for Barnes to get assists.
That said, the fact that it's close is pretty amazing considering Giddey was considered the best passer in the draft.

Barnes has played a lot of his minutes with guys who aren’t seeing the floor all that much either

Yes, he has better teammates in general, but in preseason we had guys like Gillespie playing with Barnes lol

The usage also tells a lot. If Barnes was allowed to play PG and handle the ball more, he’d probably have a higher average


Barnes also played a lot of minutes with the Raptors' starters who are miles better than OKC. Scottie has definitely impressed me with his passing but there's no arguing that it's easier for him to get assists than Giddey.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#228 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:02 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:

10 - Sharife Cooper / Jalen Johnson
9 - Cam Thomas
8 - Scottie Barnes
7 - Josh Primo
6 - BJ Boston
5 - Eric Mobley
4 - Corey Kispert
3 - Jalen Green
2 - Keon Johnson
1 - James Bouknight

Enjoy!


So, telling that Mobley's highlight (and that's Evan not Eric ....) was on the defensive end and was the only defensive highlight in the video.

Typically 19 year olds are terrible on defense, but Mobley has a shot to earn DPOY votes.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#229 » by Jadoogar » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:54 pm

Read on Twitter


Has there been any news on him? Ankle sprains normally don't take 3+ weeks to heal.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#230 » by aad » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:24 pm

Casey is just a horrible coach period if it was so minor why he at playing three weeks later

I had minor ankle sprains and was right back playing the next week they are definitely hiding something
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#231 » by Stickmann » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:27 pm

Dino-Might wrote:
Stickmann wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:And yet using “flair” to just someone’s passing over advanced stats isn’t stupid? Yeah ok ballboy


flair adds to it. Anyone could tell jokic was an amazing passer based on the aesthetic quality of his passes his rookie year. Functional passing matters, but being an amazing passer is more than that.


Stickmann, just admit when you lost an argument instead of tripling down.

As PrinceAli said, you have not provided a SINGLE objective stat or even provided any real qualitative analysis to support your position that Giddy has been the "by far" better passer in the preseason.

If "flair" is what is important, maybe the best passers are on the Globetrotters or And1 Tour.

Only time will tell who is a better playmaker. But for better overall players, Giddy would have to significantly be better on the offensive end to make up for Barnes's huge advantage on defence.



Objective stats? Quantitive analysis ? Do I need quantitive analysis to know Steve Nash was a better passer than Stockton even though he averaged less assists ? That lebron is a better passer than Westbrook the past 5 years despite russ averaging more assists on similar turnovers during that time span ? Raptors fan stay wildin
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#232 » by DCasey91 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:43 pm

aad wrote:Casey is just a horrible coach period if it was so minor why he at playing three weeks later

I had minor ankle sprains and was right back playing the next week they are definitely hiding something


It’s got to be a high grade strain or worse case ligament damage. Your right a rolled ankle shouldn’t keep you out for 3 weeks. Ankles hurt like a mofo but are easily distinguishable once the swelling goes down. In fact you can still play on it just depends how much it blows up.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#233 » by Dino-Might » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:45 am

Stickmann wrote:Objective stats? Quantitive analysis ? Do I need quantitive analysis to know Steve Nash was a better passer than Stockton even though he averaged less assists ? That lebron is a better passer than Westbrook the past 5 years despite russ averaging more assists on similar turnovers during that time span ? Raptors fan stay wildin


I said if you do not have any stats (quantitative) to support your argument, at least you should have some "qualitative" analysis, meaning something more than just saying Giddy has more "flair". This is like something you would hear in kindergarten: "he better because shirt is shiny. i like shiny"

Look, you don't need stats, analysis or any reason at all to think Giddy is a way better passer. You can hold the opinion that Javale McGee is the best passer in NBA history if you want. It's your personal opinion.

But you are on a message board. If you want to convince other people on this Board of your opinion, than you have to convince them with reasons backed by stats. Especially if you take a position that someone is "by far" better. If not, don't act so butthurt because other posters call you out for it.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#234 » by DTP » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:00 am

DCasey91 wrote:
aad wrote:Casey is just a horrible coach period if it was so minor why he at playing three weeks later

I had minor ankle sprains and was right back playing the next week they are definitely hiding something


It’s got to be a high grade strain or worse case ligament damage. Your right a rolled ankle shouldn’t keep you out for 3 weeks. Ankles hurt like a mofo but are easily distinguishable once the swelling goes down. In fact you can still play on it just depends how much it blows up.


Most annoying thing is they are refusing to give any damn information about it. Not like our local media is trying too hard anyways....they're instead asking questions about players favorite halloween candy all while we have no freaking clue when the face of our franchise will play.

I hate this organization so much..
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#235 » by Stickmann » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:10 am

Dino-Might wrote:
Stickmann wrote:Objective stats? Quantitive analysis ? Do I need quantitive analysis to know Steve Nash was a better passer than Stockton even though he averaged less assists ? That lebron is a better passer than Westbrook the past 5 years despite russ averaging more assists on similar turnovers during that time span ? Raptors fan stay wildin


I said if you do not have any stats (quantitative) to support your argument, at least you should have some "qualitative" analysis, meaning something more than just saying Giddy has more "flair". This is like something you would hear in kindergarten: "he better because shirt is shiny. i like shiny"

Look, you don't need stats, analysis or any reason at all to think Giddy is a way better passer. You can hold the opinion that Javale McGee is the best passer in NBA history if you want. It's your personal opinion.

But you are on a message board. If you want to convince other people on this Board of your opinion, than you have to convince them with reasons backed by stats. Especially if you take a position that someone is "by far" better. If not, don't act so butthurt because other posters call you out for it.


I don't need to convince anyone lol. Considering certain people here legitimaly think assists/turnovers are an accurate way to judge passing i think any coherent convo will fall on deaf ears.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#236 » by Stickmann » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:12 am

DTP wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
aad wrote:Casey is just a horrible coach period if it was so minor why he at playing three weeks later

I had minor ankle sprains and was right back playing the next week they are definitely hiding something


It’s got to be a high grade strain or worse case ligament damage. Your right a rolled ankle shouldn’t keep you out for 3 weeks. Ankles hurt like a mofo but are easily distinguishable once the swelling goes down. In fact you can still play on it just depends how much it blows up.


Most annoying thing is they are refusing to give any damn information about it. Not like our local media is trying too hard anyways....they're instead asking questions about players favorite halloween candy all while we have no freaking clue when the face of our franchise will play.

I hate this organization so much..


This is from presti's school of thought. OKC is the same way, bazley had a "bruised shoulder" or whatever for weeks until it was released he tore it. Everything KD related during his Jones fracture, westbrook's various knees surgeries during the 2013-14 season. Do not expect transparency with weaver.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#237 » by DTP » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:22 am

Stickmann wrote:
DTP wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
It’s got to be a high grade strain or worse case ligament damage. Your right a rolled ankle shouldn’t keep you out for 3 weeks. Ankles hurt like a mofo but are easily distinguishable once the swelling goes down. In fact you can still play on it just depends how much it blows up.


Most annoying thing is they are refusing to give any damn information about it. Not like our local media is trying too hard anyways....they're instead asking questions about players favorite halloween candy all while we have no freaking clue when the face of our franchise will play.

I hate this organization so much..


This is from presti's school of thought. OKC is the same way, bazley had a "bruised shoulder" or whatever for weeks until it was released he tore it. Everything KD related during his Jones fracture, westbrook's various knees surgeries during the 2013-14 season. Do not expect transparency with weaver.


Thanks for this....I've been taking it out on Casey. Most Pistons fans are in love with Weaver...I'm not quite sold yet. Honestly wish we could get a new owner, gm, and coach.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#238 » by MotownMadness » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:39 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
aad wrote:Casey is just a horrible coach period if it was so minor why he at playing three weeks later

I had minor ankle sprains and was right back playing the next week they are definitely hiding something


It’s got to be a high grade strain or worse case ligament damage. Your right a rolled ankle shouldn’t keep you out for 3 weeks. Ankles hurt like a mofo but are easily distinguishable once the swelling goes down. In fact you can still play on it just depends how much it blows up.

I dont think they would let him be out there shooting around with ligament damage. Still must of been a worse roll than we were lead on though.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#239 » by DroseReturnChi » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:55 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Has there been any news on him? Ankle sprains normally don't take 3+ weeks to heal.


well as i predicted cade wont play likely whole october. even if he was healthy detroit doesnt want to win and rather be extra careful. i like the tanking direction lose 1 more for chet but my problem is lack of exposure might end up being wiseman situation being lost all yr. preseason and number of rs games played is number 1 priority for rookie contract guys.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#240 » by Stickmann » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:44 pm

DTP wrote:
Stickmann wrote:
DTP wrote:
Most annoying thing is they are refusing to give any damn information about it. Not like our local media is trying too hard anyways....they're instead asking questions about players favorite halloween candy all while we have no freaking clue when the face of our franchise will play.

I hate this organization so much..


This is from presti's school of thought. OKC is the same way, bazley had a "bruised shoulder" or whatever for weeks until it was released he tore it. Everything KD related during his Jones fracture, westbrook's various knees surgeries during the 2013-14 season. Do not expect transparency with weaver.


Thanks for this....I've been taking it out on Casey. Most Pistons fans are in love with Weaver...I'm not quite sold yet. Honestly wish we could get a new owner, gm, and coach.



It’s frustrating but weaver is a smart guy and presti for all his faults has been largely positive on the team. The only team stuff like that truly impacted the team was when they didn’t disclose Jeff green’s heart condition and got docked a couple draft picks. **** move but don’t except it to change now that weaver is gone from OKC, him and presti are besties

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