Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"?

[Arco Thunder]

Imagine being bothered by the BEST LEAGUE in the WORLD calling its winners WORLD champions. Euro insecurity knows no bounds it's embarrassing how much you people whine on American forums begging for daddy USA to acknowledge your existence. We know you exist and we know your basketball leagues are terrible.

NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL are the best leagues in their respective sports and if any champion is called world champion here that is all that title is trying to convey. Somehow trying to spin that into some delusional American power fantasy is bizarre. Not one American would give a crap if the best euro soccer league called the winner world champions because it's TRUE. MLS cannot compete and we don't care.

[dhsilv2]

Its a tournament, where any team from Europe can make it, if they perform well domestically and win qualification. How is league being closed helps your argument, if anythings thats more of the reason why you cant call it world championship, beside the fact that its not world championship and you arguing against something thats factual.

I'm just so completely lost on what you're wanting here.

A tournament? That already doesn't count. Unless you're playing the same level of competition to make the tournament then it's just stupid. You couldn't have the G league champion make a playoff with the NBA champion for example.

The nba is a world organization, with the absolute best players around the world in it. And by having a closed system it assures that the absolute best players MUST compete in the league to compete at that highest level. if you have some open system with lesser organizations able to compete, you water down the whole system and take away any semblance of having a real world championship. We already have MANY fans concerned that the NBA having 30 teams is too many. The less teams involved and the higher the level of competition to MAKE the league as a player, the better!

This isn't the stupid Olympics or world championships where our stupid boarders define where player can play. This is about the best teams build from the entire world who play for money at a professional level. What really makes the NBA continue to grow and make sense is that fans are increasingly NOT tribal. We're not fans of teams because we live near the city they play in but because we like the players or the coaches or whatever else. I for example was a HUGE Tim Duncan fan living 1,200 miles (1,900 KM) from the spurs (which is further than say London to Madrid). San Antonio is every bit as foreign to me as an american as Tokyo minus the language barriers. Two cities I'll likely never go to. So again where teams play is just an annoyance to fans who live in different time zones (sometimes big ones).

Without a closed system and without a real playoff with long series (at least best of 3 but really best of 5 should be seen as an absolute min), you can't be a world champion, at least in basketball...some sports might lend themselves to less games..

Well, sorry, thats what every world championsip is, a tournament that anyone from the world at least innitialy had a chance to make. To some those cahnces almost guarantee and to some its astronomically low, but thats what world championship mean, where everyone has team that represents them, but you can go to Spanish or Greek and explain how one of NBA teams represent them, cause location they play in doesnt matter, wonder will it work.

Sorrry my man, I love ya, but everything you wrote in this thread is either wrong or backwards. No, NBA being closed league does not guarantee best players to be in it, its the opposite. It just works RIGHT NOW cause club basketball outside US is very niche, so no one has interest or need or popularity to compete with NBA teams for best players in the world. But if Basketball becomes more than niche in rish countries and they start matching NBA salaries to star players, how will being closed league help you?

Several years ago Manchester City and Paris sait Germain were average teams, what if Euros had this stupid closed league rule, they would have excluded those teams in their ultimate European league, but then oil bilionaires buy those team, buyout lots of best players in the world, make ManCity and PSG top 5 teams in the world, but crap, they wouldnt be in ultimate Euro league cause it is closed league now. No, we dont do stupid thing like closed league when we are talking about global or continental titles, closed league is antitesis of that.

The best players in the world might take the pay...might. But rich guys aren't going to want to build a team that doesn't matter beyond a point. And players are going to want to win where it matters as well. I recall years ago there was talk of a european team offering Kobe 75 M a year to play there. When you have that open system it would make sense to take the 75, but when you can't compete at the highest level it makes a LOT less sense. The last thing you'd want is more teams. That waters down the teams that compete. If a billionaire wanted to compete in the NBA, he/she would want to buy an NBA team OR maybe they could figure out a way to expand the nba to europe or asia cities to play in if they could figure out logistics (makes more sense to just buy an nba team though, who cares where the team plays?).

Now that said you're right...at some point if the talent in basketball gets so great that it's just impossible for the nba as it stands to be the best league, this might be an issue. But if that were the case, the NBA would just expand. Maybe they would create satellite league's in other countries to maximize profits while expanding and they'd have a real struggle to figure out how to keep the balance right. But that's the system we'd want. Not separate leagues.

And a bonus - no NBA team will ever call itself a "club" : )

[Red8911]

Yeah World Champions is 100% wrong. Always hated that they use that.Doesn't matter that the NBA is the best league, it’s still not a world competition.

[UcanUwill]

I'm just so completely lost on what you're wanting here.

A tournament? That already doesn't count. Unless you're playing the same level of competition to make the tournament then it's just stupid. You couldn't have the G league champion make a playoff with the NBA champion for example.

The nba is a world organization, with the absolute best players around the world in it. And by having a closed system it assures that the absolute best players MUST compete in the league to compete at that highest level. if you have some open system with lesser organizations able to compete, you water down the whole system and take away any semblance of having a real world championship. We already have MANY fans concerned that the NBA having 30 teams is too many. The less teams involved and the higher the level of competition to MAKE the league as a player, the better!

This isn't the stupid Olympics or world championships where our stupid boarders define where player can play. This is about the best teams build from the entire world who play for money at a professional level. What really makes the NBA continue to grow and make sense is that fans are increasingly NOT tribal. We're not fans of teams because we live near the city they play in but because we like the players or the coaches or whatever else. I for example was a HUGE Tim Duncan fan living 1,200 miles (1,900 KM) from the spurs (which is further than say London to Madrid). San Antonio is every bit as foreign to me as an american as Tokyo minus the language barriers. Two cities I'll likely never go to. So again where teams play is just an annoyance to fans who live in different time zones (sometimes big ones).

Without a closed system and without a real playoff with long series (at least best of 3 but really best of 5 should be seen as an absolute min), you can't be a world champion, at least in basketball...some sports might lend themselves to less games..

Well, sorry, thats what every world championsip is, a tournament that anyone from the world at least innitialy had a chance to make. To some those cahnces almost guarantee and to some its astronomically low, but thats what world championship mean, where everyone has team that represents them, but you can go to Spanish or Greek and explain how one of NBA teams represent them, cause location they play in doesnt matter, wonder will it work.

Sorrry my man, I love ya, but everything you wrote in this thread is either wrong or backwards. No, NBA being closed league does not guarantee best players to be in it, its the opposite. It just works RIGHT NOW cause club basketball outside US is very niche, so no one has interest or need or popularity to compete with NBA teams for best players in the world. But if Basketball becomes more than niche in rish countries and they start matching NBA salaries to star players, how will being closed league help you?

Several years ago Manchester City and Paris sait Germain were average teams, what if Euros had this stupid closed league rule, they would have excluded those teams in their ultimate European league, but then oil bilionaires buy those team, buyout lots of best players in the world, make ManCity and PSG top 5 teams in the world, but crap, they wouldnt be in ultimate Euro league cause it is closed league now. No, we dont do stupid thing like closed league when we are talking about global or continental titles, closed league is antitesis of that.

The best players in the world might take the pay...might. But rich guys aren't going to want to build a team that doesn't matter beyond a point. And players are going to want to win where it matters as well. I recall years ago there was talk of a european team offering Kobe 75 M a year to play there. When you have that open system it would make sense to take the 75, but when you can't compete at the highest level it makes a LOT less sense. The last thing you'd want is more teams. That waters down the teams that compete. If a billionaire wanted to compete in the NBA, he/she would want to buy an NBA team OR maybe they could figure out a way to expand the nba to europe or asia cities to play in if they could figure out logistics (makes more sense to just buy an nba team though, who cares where the team plays?).

Now that said you're right...at some point if the talent in basketball gets so great that it's just impossible for the nba as it stands to be the best league, this might be an issue. But if that were the case, the NBA would just expand. Maybe they would create satellite league's in other countries to maximize profits while expanding and they'd have a real struggle to figure out how to keep the balance right. But that's the system we'd want. Not separate leagues.

And a bonus - no NBA team will ever call itself a "club" : )

You are right here, but we dont know what the future will bring. Max contract system could also be an issue one day. Lets say some foreign billionaire just decides to offer 100 million a year to some guys for the novelty, kinda like Chinese were offering crazy contracts to Soccer stars this past decade. Closed system of the NBA works today, but its not because it is closed, it is just because it has no financial competitor really.

[UcanUwill]

Imagine being bothered by the BEST LEAGUE in the WORLD calling its winners WORLD champions. Euro insecurity knows no bounds it's embarrassing how much you people whine on American forums begging for daddy USA to acknowledge your existence. We know you exist and we know your basketball leagues are terrible.

We Euros dont create incorrect titles for ourselves to feel better about our sporting teams, who is insecure here?

[Arco Thunder]

Imagine being bothered by the BEST LEAGUE in the WORLD calling its winners WORLD champions. Euro insecurity knows no bounds it's embarrassing how much you people whine on American forums begging for daddy USA to acknowledge your existence. We know you exist and we know your basketball leagues are terrible.

We Euros dont create incorrect titles for ourselves to feel better about our sporting teams, who is insecure here?

You, and it's not incorrect.

[DroseReturnChi]

Imagine being bothered by the BEST LEAGUE in the WORLD calling its winners WORLD champions. Euro insecurity knows no bounds it's embarrassing how much you people whine on American forums begging for daddy USA to acknowledge your existence. We know you exist and we know your basketball leagues are terrible.

NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL are the best leagues in their respective sports and if any champion is called world champion here that is all that title is trying to convey. Somehow trying to spin that into some delusional American power fantasy is bizarre. Not one American would give a crap if the best euro soccer league called the winner world champions because it's TRUE. MLS cannot compete and we don't care.

no ones arguing its not the best league lol. its pure arrogance to call world champs without even competing each other.

[Mamba81p]

F1 champion is called World Champion, and that was always the case, even when the competition was held mostly in Europe with european drivers + some brazilians, and everyone is ok with that because F1 is the pinnacle of the motorsports.

I don't know much about Australian Football, but if they want to call themselves world champions they can do that and no american will be bothered by it.

There are few leagues that have ALL the top talent in the world. There is no such league in soccer, volleyball, handball, rugby etc, but on the other hand the american league have that, and they have had it for decades.

NBA is a separate international organization. It is not affiliated with FIBA, so calling the NBA champions, world champion in NBA version of basketball is not incorrect. The only reason NBA is played in 2 nations is because of economics + logistics.
If they could, we would have franchises in Tokyo, London, Paris, Sydney etc. If Mexico would make sense at some point they will add a franchise in there. Just like F1 only travels where it makes sense for them economically. Unlike F1, NBA cannot travel that easily. Would the talent pool change in any meaningful way if the Kings would play in London and not in Sacramento? No, and we see that with Toronto Raptors.

Rugby European Champions Cup winners are called european champions even though only teams from the Six Nations participate in it.

[Calvin Klein]

It's a national league ffs. It doesn't matter that the best players play there. Just admit that it comes from pure ignorance and arrogance from americans.

The Champions league don't call their winner World Champions and that's the best league in the world for clubs. I bet other sports in other countries where the best players play don't call themselves world champions.

[UcanUwill]

F1 is a good comparison. I think F1 has far better justification to call their winner world champion, because almost every driver's career goal is F1, and any driver who is in any racing circuit is competing to one day become F1 driver. You can say it is almost the same in the NBA, but for starters, NBA is closed league, in F1 anyone and any franchice can become F1 driver or team if they are good enough and have enough recources etc. it is truly a pinacle of the sport and its determined. NBA is a pinacle of the sport, but it is not determined, it is just this way now by all other factors, financial and popularity. Hamilton is world champ because he really beat all the other guys from around the world, who beat all the other guys, who beat all the other guys to be there. Milwayke beet Phoenix, Brooklyn, etc. it simply didnt prove themselves as world champs, they only proved as NBA champs. And we are NOT debating the fact whenever NBA needs to prove they are best or not, they dont need that, but they simply do not compete against open world competition.

[Fable]

Calling champions of it's national leagues the "world champions" is another sign of the US provincialism.

[MugzZo]

No because the best players in the world come to the NBA at some point.

[Mamba81p]

F1 is a good comparison. I think F1 has far better justification to call their winner world champion, because almost every driver's career goal is F1, and any driver who is in any racing circuit is competing to one day become F1 driver. You can say it is almost the same in the NBA, but for starters, NBA is closed league, in F1 anyone and any franchice can become F1 driver or team if they are good enough and have enough recources etc. it is truly a pinacle of the sport and its determined. NBA is a pinacle of the sport, but it is not determined, it is just this way now by all other factors, financial and popularity. Hamilton is world champ because he really beat all the other guys from around the world, who beat all the other guys, who beat all the other guys to be there. Milwayke beet Phoenix, Brooklyn, etc. it simply didnt prove themselves as world champs, they only proved as NBA champs. And we are NOT debating the fact whenever NBA needs to prove they are best or not, they dont need that, but they simply do not compete against open world competition.

There are other circuit competitions in the world, and it is not really determined that F1 is the pinnacle of the sport. Not more than NBA is. It's not a full pyramid in F1 the way you have that in soccer. Sure you have F2, F3 and all the competitions below, but you still have NASCAR, Indy that are not part of the pyramid. Same goes with lesser competitions like DTM Renault series etc. F1 is the pyramid because every driver in world knows that, and wants that. Sounds familiar to the NBA.

[UcanUwill]

F1 is a good comparison. I think F1 has far better justification to call their winner world champion, because almost every driver's career goal is F1, and any driver who is in any racing circuit is competing to one day become F1 driver. You can say it is almost the same in the NBA, but for starters, NBA is closed league, in F1 anyone and any franchice can become F1 driver or team if they are good enough and have enough recources etc. it is truly a pinacle of the sport and its determined. NBA is a pinacle of the sport, but it is not determined, it is just this way now by all other factors, financial and popularity. Hamilton is world champ because he really beat all the other guys from around the world, who beat all the other guys, who beat all the other guys to be there. Milwayke beet Phoenix, Brooklyn, etc. it simply didnt prove themselves as world champs, they only proved as NBA champs. And we are NOT debating the fact whenever NBA needs to prove they are best or not, they dont need that, but they simply do not compete against open world competition.

There are other circuit competitions in the world, and it is not really determined that F1 is the pinnacle of the sport. Not more than NBA is. It's not a full pyramid in F1 the way you have that in soccer. Sure you have F2, F3 and all the competitions below, but you still have NASCAR, Indy that are not part of the pyramid. Same goes with lesser competitions like DTM Renault series etc. F1 is the pyramid because every driver in world knows that, and wants that. Sounds familiar to the NBA.

We fully know what national league in basketball is though, we dont need to start comparing apples to oranges. Just because one is better and more popular, doesnt make it more than it is. Almost every country has a national league, a league that is closed. But teams always wanted more than be crowned domestic champions, thats why it created international tournaments like Champions league or Euroleague in basketball, that Serbian champions could meat with any other champion from different country and determine who is the best officially (just saying we are the best doesn't cut it pal). European continent has continental championships, their teams play in closed national basketball associations, but also compete internationally. NBA teams do not compete internationally, they just compete in closed domestic, national basketball association, and those are the facts, end of story.

[Mamba81p]

F1 is a good comparison. I think F1 has far better justification to call their winner world champion, because almost every driver's career goal is F1, and any driver who is in any racing circuit is competing to one day become F1 driver. You can say it is almost the same in the NBA, but for starters, NBA is closed league, in F1 anyone and any franchice can become F1 driver or team if they are good enough and have enough recources etc. it is truly a pinacle of the sport and its determined. NBA is a pinacle of the sport, but it is not determined, it is just this way now by all other factors, financial and popularity. Hamilton is world champ because he really beat all the other guys from around the world, who beat all the other guys, who beat all the other guys to be there. Milwayke beet Phoenix, Brooklyn, etc. it simply didnt prove themselves as world champs, they only proved as NBA champs. And we are NOT debating the fact whenever NBA needs to prove they are best or not, they dont need that, but they simply do not compete against open world competition.

There are other circuit competitions in the world, and it is not really determined that F1 is the pinnacle of the sport. Not more than NBA is. It's not a full pyramid in F1 the way you have that in soccer. Sure you have F2, F3 and all the competitions below, but you still have NASCAR, Indy that are not part of the pyramid. Same goes with lesser competitions like DTM Renault series etc. F1 is the pyramid because every driver in world knows that, and wants that. Sounds familiar to the NBA.

We fully know what national league in basketball is though, we dont need to start comparing apples to oranges. Just because one is better and more popular, doesnt make it more than it is. Almost every country has a national league, a league that is closed. But teams always wanted more than be crowned domestic champions, thats why it created international tournaments like Champions league or Euroleague in basketball, that Serbian champions could meat with any other champion from different country and determine who is the best officially (just saying we are the best doesn't cut it pal). European continent has continental championships, their teams play in closed national basketball associations, but also compete internationally. NBA teams do not compete internationally, they just compete in closed domestic, national basketball association, and those are the facts, end of story.

I though we were talking about F1 being a determined pinnacle of sports.
NBA is not a national league, even though has the "national" in it's name. see my previous post. It is more of an international organization that is independent from FIBA. As I said only geography/logistics stops it from having a franchise in London or Tokyo and if they had that, the talent pool will be the same, hence why it makes the NBA the pinnacle of the basketball just like the F1 is.

People who are ok with F1 champion being called world champion, and European Rugby Champions cup winners European champions, but whine about NBA champions being called world champions are hypocrites.

[JujitsuFlip]

yeah?
sort of goes without saying they didn't play a regular season game considering they aren't in the same league.

I'm sure Kobe playing 24 minutes in a preseason exhibition game is comparable to his 38 MPG in the regular season that year, or his 40 MPG in the playoffs that year, or his 41 MPG in the Finals that year.

But hey, you all do you. I'm sure a single exhibition game on foreign soil is comparable to a 7 game NBA series, LOL

No doubt Lakers would win 7 game series, but they lost that game and thats facts.

So they won one home exhibition game, where Kobe didn't play half the game and this counts for what exactly?

To me, it means they tried really hard and succeeded at winning a single exhibition game lol

[Pinpilinpauxa]

Doesnt bother me but it would be funny if we called here Basque pelota champions world champions.

If Milwaukee cant do it in a cold rainy night in stoke they cant call themselves world champions

Bravo. Too bad only EPL fans would get the reference.

Not a fan of the EPL but i have read it in Redcafe forums. Its funny because in San Sebastián, Bilbao, Eibar and Vigo rains much more than any city in the EPL. Not as cold but not much warmer than the average.

[Salieri]

I see it as an incorrect label, but totally harmless. I don't lose any sleep over it whatsoever. I see it more like a publicity stunt than a real accurate description, and given that I enjoy the product a lot, I don't mind publicity stunts that help popularize said product. If it's good for the NBA (and bad for nobody else), it doesn't bother me even though, again, I think it's technically incorrect.

What I find funny is the amount of projection shown in this thread: some people talking about Euro insecurity, some people talking about USA arrogance or provincialism, et cetera. It makes me chuckle. We're talking about a debatably inaccurate moniker, lighten up buddies!

These kind of pet peeves are always telling, and the story they tell is rarely one of objective judgment. If you have a bone to pick with a given territory, I'm sure you can find plenty of threads where it can be reasonably brought up and debated under an objective umbrella of facts. But this thread? This ain't it.

[dhsilv2]

Well, sorry, thats what every world championsip is, a tournament that anyone from the world at least innitialy had a chance to make. To some those cahnces almost guarantee and to some its astronomically low, but thats what world championship mean, where everyone has team that represents them, but you can go to Spanish or Greek and explain how one of NBA teams represent them, cause location they play in doesnt matter, wonder will it work.

Sorrry my man, I love ya, but everything you wrote in this thread is either wrong or backwards. No, NBA being closed league does not guarantee best players to be in it, its the opposite. It just works RIGHT NOW cause club basketball outside US is very niche, so no one has interest or need or popularity to compete with NBA teams for best players in the world. But if Basketball becomes more than niche in rish countries and they start matching NBA salaries to star players, how will being closed league help you?

Several years ago Manchester City and Paris sait Germain were average teams, what if Euros had this stupid closed league rule, they would have excluded those teams in their ultimate European league, but then oil bilionaires buy those team, buyout lots of best players in the world, make ManCity and PSG top 5 teams in the world, but crap, they wouldnt be in ultimate Euro league cause it is closed league now. No, we dont do stupid thing like closed league when we are talking about global or continental titles, closed league is antitesis of that.

The best players in the world might take the pay...might. But rich guys aren't going to want to build a team that doesn't matter beyond a point. And players are going to want to win where it matters as well. I recall years ago there was talk of a european team offering Kobe 75 M a year to play there. When you have that open system it would make sense to take the 75, but when you can't compete at the highest level it makes a LOT less sense. The last thing you'd want is more teams. That waters down the teams that compete. If a billionaire wanted to compete in the NBA, he/she would want to buy an NBA team OR maybe they could figure out a way to expand the nba to europe or asia cities to play in if they could figure out logistics (makes more sense to just buy an nba team though, who cares where the team plays?).

Now that said you're right...at some point if the talent in basketball gets so great that it's just impossible for the nba as it stands to be the best league, this might be an issue. But if that were the case, the NBA would just expand. Maybe they would create satellite league's in other countries to maximize profits while expanding and they'd have a real struggle to figure out how to keep the balance right. But that's the system we'd want. Not separate leagues.

And a bonus - no NBA team will ever call itself a "club" : )

You are right here, but we dont know what the future will bring. Max contract system could also be an issue one day. Lets say some foreign billionaire just decides to offer 100 million a year to some guys for the novelty, kinda like Chinese were offering crazy contracts to Soccer stars this past decade. Closed system of the NBA works today, but its not because it is closed, it is just because it has no financial competitor really.

I mean again there was talk of 75 a year for Kobe and even Lebron. The guys who are THAT hyper competitive aren't going to leave the nba because they want to win there. What would happen is your second and third tier stars would consider that. Not the beat a dead horse, Ben Simmons types make perfect sense there. But no the Lebrons, Paul's, Harden's, KD's, Giannis, Jokic, and so on (no shade intended for anyone I left off).

This is why a closed system works.

On top of all that - long term a closed system makes more money. Look at team values for the NFL and NBA vs soccer (the WAY more popular sport). Then remember the players are splitting revenue share with owners in the NBA. It's the system that creates the most interest, wealth, and ultimately is the best way to grow the best possible competition because of all these factors combined.

[dickfox]

By that logic the UEFA Champions League winner should claim the title of world champion just because the UCL is the best football league in the world..

Yeah, that sounds logical. Maybe you guys should do that instead of complaining on here.

I'm not complaining, it doesn't even bother me, I'm just saying in my mindset you have to play in a worldwide competition to gain that title no matter how good is your national/continental league.


But ehi there no reason to take it personal with bs like the inferiority complex. I've nothing against the USA and I guess the same goes for most of those who agree with me.

I'm thinking the Bucks would beat any other team in the Euroleagues and across the globe but hey, let's pitch a world tournament idea to Adam Silver where the champions from each league play each other for world domination.