Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"?

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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#261 » by JujitsuFlip » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:17 pm

The 2021 World Champion Milwaukee Bucks just unveiled their banner!
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#262 » by Salieri » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:28 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Salieri wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
So if I read you right. Teams are from our WORLD called EARTH. So the nba champs are the world champs. The whole NBA is from our same world. By your logic if a team isn't from our world I agree they don't count. But this is a league of teams from the world and that's all you want.


It's obvious you didn't read me right :lol:


Ah sorry, you think which tectonic plates a team plays games on has some meaning but have no reason why it does.


So, you didn't read me right AND you're also gonna tell me what I think? Because you know what I think better than me? :lol:

Okay, buddy. I tried to make you understand a very simple concept: a world champion needs to compete in a world championship in order to be called so. Let's try one last time with a very basic example:

During the 2011 Athletics World Championship, everyone knew Usain Bolt was the best 100m sprinter in history, let alone the world. He was the world record holder. He had won many competitions before that tournament, and would go ahead to win many more after it.

But he got disqualified in the 2011 finals, something that allowed Yohan Blake to win the race, becoming World champion.

Bolt won the 100m finals the next year in the 2012 London summer Olympics, but he was NOT the world champion because he didn't win a world championship.

Up until 2013 when he would reclaim the crown, somebody else was the world champion. It didn't matter that he was the best runner to ever live. It didn't matter that he won many other competitions. He didn't win the last tournament named WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Thus, for those 2 years he wasn't the world champion as much as he dominated the sport.

He needed to win the competition that gives its winner that title in order to hold that title. It doesn't matter if he was much better than everyone else. It didn't matter what other tournaments he won. He couldn't claim to be the world champion until he won at the World Championship.

It's a matter of semantics. As I've said since the beginning, nobody doubts NBA winners are MUCH better than EL winners or any other team in the world. All they need to do to be accurately called world champions is win a World Championship. Up until that tournament is created, that title can't be held by any team because that competition does not exist. To illustrate the point: football -soccer- teams were also itching to brag about being world champions, so the Intercontinental Cup became the FIFA Club World Cup, and now the yearly winner of that tournament can legitimately be called World Champions. See how easy it is?

Now, if you STILL don't understand what I mean and you keep going on talking about millionaire players, country borders and tectonic plates (LOL), I've done all I can and this is not a hill I wanna die on. As I said, it doesn't bother me except in a semantic, linguistic, anal retentive way. It's just not an accurate moniker, that is all.
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#263 » by ACMFFL » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:01 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
ACMFFL wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Define standing? Basketball hasn't been that popular a sport globally until the last 30 or so years. I mean you think China is really watching Eurobasket? Africa? South America? Australia?

People want to see the highest level of competition in a sport. Now I know for some reason with these "clubs" soccer was screwed up and there's no proper league for it. But thankfully basketball has a real league for the top competition. That's what fans should want. The world games? A giant who cares?


Wat? Maybe I misunderstood you but the Champions League is still the highest level of competition in football even without the winners claiming the world champ title.
And what's wrong with the word "club"? On the other hand I think nobody has a problem with the word "franchise"


My understanding is the "champions league" isn't an actual league though. A group of teams have to qualify for it so it doesn't count because it means that there effectively are no set top teams. Or in a better way of putting it, there talent pool of players can be more spread out.


That's because every team has to earn its spot in the Champions League but usually a real top team qualifies for it.

A few months ago the best teams in Europe tried to create a closed league based in the North American sports system, the Superleague, but the winners would not have claimed the world champ title, that league still would have been a continental league.

The NBA itself doesn't officially refer to the NBA winner as the world champions.
I'm not 100% sure about it so correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions 

Post#264 » by stillgotgame » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:59 am

JujitsuFlip wrote:The 2021 World Champion Milwaukee Bucks just unveiled their banner!


The World Champion ring is sweet too.

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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#265 » by Cactus Jack » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:56 am

UcanUwill wrote:
Winsome Gerbil wrote:As I said in the last thread about this: no. It's true.

It's also true in baseball and American Football. There are no teams or countries even close, and the world's best players all play in this one league. It's not a closed domestic league, it's a world league. It's MVP last year was a Serbian. The title was won by a Greek of Nigerian descent.

Now if the "World Champion" was claimed in soccer that would be a problem.


So, most of the times in every other league, MVPs and champions are foreigners, doesnt make them world champions of any kind, calling yourself world champion for winning a national league is just technically incorrect, the worst kind of incorrect.

We like to think that the world revolves around us "America". That's why "World Champion" is so frequently used. It's fine. Just let us have it. :wink:
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions 

Post#266 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:59 am

stillgotgame wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:The 2021 World Champion Milwaukee Bucks just unveiled their banner!


The World Champion ring is sweet too.

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Those are pretty slick!
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#267 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:56 am

Salieri wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Salieri wrote:
It's obvious you didn't read me right :lol:


Ah sorry, you think which tectonic plates a team plays games on has some meaning but have no reason why it does.


So, you didn't read me right AND you're also gonna tell me what I think? Because you know what I think better than me? :lol:

Okay, buddy. I tried to make you understand a very simple concept: a world champion needs to compete in a world championship in order to be called so. Let's try one last time with a very basic example:

During the 2011 Athletics World Championship, everyone knew Usain Bolt was the best 100m sprinter in history, let alone the world. He was the world record holder. He had won many competitions before that tournament, and would go ahead to win many more after it.

But he got disqualified in the 2011 finals, something that allowed Yohan Blake to win the race, becoming World champion.

Bolt won the 100m finals the next year in the 2012 London summer Olympics, but he was NOT the world champion because he didn't win a world championship.

Up until 2013 when he would reclaim the crown, somebody else was the world champion. It didn't matter that he was the best runner to ever live. It didn't matter that he won many other competitions. He didn't win the last tournament named WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Thus, for those 2 years he wasn't the world champion as much as he dominated the sport.

He needed to win the competition that gives its winner that title in order to hold that title. It doesn't matter if he was much better than everyone else. It didn't matter what other tournaments he won. He couldn't claim to be the world champion until he won at the World Championship.

It's a matter of semantics. As I've said since the beginning, nobody doubts NBA winners are MUCH better than EL winners or any other team in the world. All they need to do to be accurately called world champions is win a World Championship. Up until that tournament is created, that title can't be held by any team because that competition does not exist. To illustrate the point: football -soccer- teams were also itching to brag about being world champions, so the Intercontinental Cup became the FIFA Club World Cup, and now the yearly winner of that tournament can legitimately be called World Champions. See how easy it is?

Now, if you STILL don't understand what I mean and you keep going on talking about millionaire players, country borders and tectonic plates (LOL), I've done all I can and this is not a hill I wanna die on. As I said, it doesn't bother me except in a semantic, linguistic, anal retentive way. It's just not an accurate moniker, that is all.


I'd like to make a lot of jokes here, but I'm sorry I don't think it would be respectful to you. The bolt stuff doesn't even remotely apply. Soccer is a horrible professional system I'd never wish on any sport.

But the nba is a world organization, made up of people from the world. They use a closed system because a non closed system doesn't work at all. You can't be a world champion professional team if you don't play the full season together and you can't do that over 24 time zones. You have to be organized in a few reasonable time zones.

You need to make a point man otherwise I'm sorry, I can't even respond.

No you can't call yourself a world champion if you ONLY compete in a tournament. You have to be a part of a full season in a professional sport's league. You must win the top league and that league must have fixed teams, must pull players from the world, it must have a clearly advantage in getting players, and it must be by far the clear cut best set of players in the world.

There is no soccer world champ because soccer's system is complete and utter trash!
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#268 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:07 am

ACMFFL wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
ACMFFL wrote:
Wat? Maybe I misunderstood you but the Champions League is still the highest level of competition in football even without the winners claiming the world champ title.
And what's wrong with the word "club"? On the other hand I think nobody has a problem with the word "franchise"


My understanding is the "champions league" isn't an actual league though. A group of teams have to qualify for it so it doesn't count because it means that there effectively are no set top teams. Or in a better way of putting it, there talent pool of players can be more spread out.


That's because every team has to earn its spot in the Champions League but usually a real top team qualifies for it.

A few months ago the best teams in Europe tried to create a closed league based in the North American sports system, the Superleague, but the winners would not have claimed the world champ title, that league still would have been a continental league.

The NBA itself doesn't officially refer to the NBA winner as the world champions.
I'm not 100% sure about it so correct me if I'm wrong.


I don't think the league calls their champ the world champions. I'm not sure. And honestly, if they made an actual "superleague" I might even follow soccer lightly because for once it would make common sense to me. This feels like one of those discussions where I'm told "this is popular opinion" vs "this is local opinion". The two of course have NEVER been the same. What is popular is almost universally wrong. And the idea that this is some weird "american" idea just doesn't sit well with me.

Sure I'm american. And that means.....all of nothing to me. Do you guys think anyone in the US thinks an MLS team has any place even in a world champion discussion? We don't! I don't know if the NFL is the best hockey league... I do however know that MLB is the best baseball league. I know that the NFL is the best grid iron football league in the world. I also know that the NBA is the best basketball league in the world. As for your associations (soccer) football - I just know there isn't a top professional league... There's a lot of stupid systems to spread talent way too far and to prevent a legit quality league. This to me is the result of letting popular opinions get in the way of logic. All good. We have that everywhere in all aspects of life. Thankfully in the US we had some rich jerks setup these fixed systems and for once it was for our benefit! And thus why the NBA is a legit world champ and no soccer team really can ever claim that. They use a system where they cant claim it.
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#269 » by Salieri » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:26 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
Salieri wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Ah sorry, you think which tectonic plates a team plays games on has some meaning but have no reason why it does.


So, you didn't read me right AND you're also gonna tell me what I think? Because you know what I think better than me? :lol:

Okay, buddy. I tried to make you understand a very simple concept: a world champion needs to compete in a world championship in order to be called so. Let's try one last time with a very basic example:

During the 2011 Athletics World Championship, everyone knew Usain Bolt was the best 100m sprinter in history, let alone the world. He was the world record holder. He had won many competitions before that tournament, and would go ahead to win many more after it.

But he got disqualified in the 2011 finals, something that allowed Yohan Blake to win the race, becoming World champion.

Bolt won the 100m finals the next year in the 2012 London summer Olympics, but he was NOT the world champion because he didn't win a world championship.

Up until 2013 when he would reclaim the crown, somebody else was the world champion. It didn't matter that he was the best runner to ever live. It didn't matter that he won many other competitions. He didn't win the last tournament named WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Thus, for those 2 years he wasn't the world champion as much as he dominated the sport.

He needed to win the competition that gives its winner that title in order to hold that title. It doesn't matter if he was much better than everyone else. It didn't matter what other tournaments he won. He couldn't claim to be the world champion until he won at the World Championship.

It's a matter of semantics. As I've said since the beginning, nobody doubts NBA winners are MUCH better than EL winners or any other team in the world. All they need to do to be accurately called world champions is win a World Championship. Up until that tournament is created, that title can't be held by any team because that competition does not exist. To illustrate the point: football -soccer- teams were also itching to brag about being world champions, so the Intercontinental Cup became the FIFA Club World Cup, and now the yearly winner of that tournament can legitimately be called World Champions. See how easy it is?

Now, if you STILL don't understand what I mean and you keep going on talking about millionaire players, country borders and tectonic plates (LOL), I've done all I can and this is not a hill I wanna die on. As I said, it doesn't bother me except in a semantic, linguistic, anal retentive way. It's just not an accurate moniker, that is all.


I'd like to make a lot of jokes here, but I'm sorry I don't think it would be respectful to you. The bolt stuff doesn't even remotely apply. Soccer is a horrible professional system I'd never wish on any sport.

But the nba is a world organization, made up of people from the world. They use a closed system because a non closed system doesn't work at all. You can't be a world champion professional team if you don't play the full season together and you can't do that over 24 time zones. You have to be organized in a few reasonable time zones.

You need to make a point man otherwise I'm sorry, I can't even respond.

No you can't call yourself a world champion if you ONLY compete in a tournament. You have to be a part of a full season in a professional sport's league. You must win the top league and that league must have fixed teams, must pull players from the world, it must have a clearly advantage in getting players, and it must be by far the clear cut best set of players in the world.

There is no soccer world champ because soccer's system is complete and utter trash!


As I said, if I couldn't make you see the light with my last try, I give up. So I won't keep going with this kind of bizarre conversation.

And feel free to make those jokes! I don't mind a bit of teasing and banter, especially when the subject isn't a serious one, or at least one I don't take seriously. In the end, who cares about the accurate label of an NBA champ? I sure don't, seeing as it is a publicity stunt.

You're lucky though that this is my last reply, because there is (at least) one demonstrably false statement in each paragraph of that post. I could shred it to pieces if I wanted to prolongue this nonsensical debate. Alas, I'm not interested and you'll have the last word. I suggest you use it to make some of those jokes so we can balance out a bit the heavy words of the anti-american vs anti-europe part of the thread. Can we at least agree that those guys are way too serious, way too offended, and they're projecting way too much for such a light hearted topic as this one?
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#270 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:47 pm

Salieri wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Salieri wrote:
So, you didn't read me right AND you're also gonna tell me what I think? Because you know what I think better than me? :lol:

Okay, buddy. I tried to make you understand a very simple concept: a world champion needs to compete in a world championship in order to be called so. Let's try one last time with a very basic example:

During the 2011 Athletics World Championship, everyone knew Usain Bolt was the best 100m sprinter in history, let alone the world. He was the world record holder. He had won many competitions before that tournament, and would go ahead to win many more after it.

But he got disqualified in the 2011 finals, something that allowed Yohan Blake to win the race, becoming World champion.

Bolt won the 100m finals the next year in the 2012 London summer Olympics, but he was NOT the world champion because he didn't win a world championship.

Up until 2013 when he would reclaim the crown, somebody else was the world champion. It didn't matter that he was the best runner to ever live. It didn't matter that he won many other competitions. He didn't win the last tournament named WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Thus, for those 2 years he wasn't the world champion as much as he dominated the sport.

He needed to win the competition that gives its winner that title in order to hold that title. It doesn't matter if he was much better than everyone else. It didn't matter what other tournaments he won. He couldn't claim to be the world champion until he won at the World Championship.

It's a matter of semantics. As I've said since the beginning, nobody doubts NBA winners are MUCH better than EL winners or any other team in the world. All they need to do to be accurately called world champions is win a World Championship. Up until that tournament is created, that title can't be held by any team because that competition does not exist. To illustrate the point: football -soccer- teams were also itching to brag about being world champions, so the Intercontinental Cup became the FIFA Club World Cup, and now the yearly winner of that tournament can legitimately be called World Champions. See how easy it is?

Now, if you STILL don't understand what I mean and you keep going on talking about millionaire players, country borders and tectonic plates (LOL), I've done all I can and this is not a hill I wanna die on. As I said, it doesn't bother me except in a semantic, linguistic, anal retentive way. It's just not an accurate moniker, that is all.


I'd like to make a lot of jokes here, but I'm sorry I don't think it would be respectful to you. The bolt stuff doesn't even remotely apply. Soccer is a horrible professional system I'd never wish on any sport.

But the nba is a world organization, made up of people from the world. They use a closed system because a non closed system doesn't work at all. You can't be a world champion professional team if you don't play the full season together and you can't do that over 24 time zones. You have to be organized in a few reasonable time zones.

You need to make a point man otherwise I'm sorry, I can't even respond.

No you can't call yourself a world champion if you ONLY compete in a tournament. You have to be a part of a full season in a professional sport's league. You must win the top league and that league must have fixed teams, must pull players from the world, it must have a clearly advantage in getting players, and it must be by far the clear cut best set of players in the world.

There is no soccer world champ because soccer's system is complete and utter trash!


As I said, if I couldn't make you see the light with my last try, I give up. So I won't keep going with this kind of bizarre conversation.

And feel free to make those jokes! I don't mind a bit of teasing and banter, especially when the subject isn't a serious one, or at least one I don't take seriously. In the end, who cares about the accurate label of an NBA champ? I sure don't, seeing as it is a publicity stunt.

You're lucky though that this is my last reply, because there is (at least) one demonstrably false statement in each paragraph of that post. I could shred it to pieces if I wanted to prolongue this nonsensical debate. Alas, I'm not interested and you'll have the last word. I suggest you use it to make some of those jokes so we can balance out a bit the heavy words of the anti-american vs anti-europe part of the thread. Can we at least agree that those guys are way too serious, way too offended, and they're projecting way too much for such a light hearted topic as this one?


This topic reminds me a bit of those who like popular culture and those who have taste and depth. Soccer is extremely popular while putting out what as best as anyone can explain to me, a completely trash product. And that makes sense, almost everything popular is complete trash. The majority of people are horrifyingly stupid.

so yes agree with you, the american/anti american ideas here are pretty comical. The issue really is that people think soccer's system isn't horrible.
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Re: Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"? 

Post#271 » by Saciid11 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:01 pm

No , Basketball is the second most popular sport in the world and NBA is the best basketball league in the world. So if you win NBA title you are best basketball team in the world and best player is the best player in the world.

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