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Already complaining LMAO

What are you talking about OP? James Harden says 'he's not the type of person to complain about it'

Nothing unfair about it; he is the poster boy for the new rules. He's not the first player to flop or try and fool the ref, but he is the first ive seen basically turn it into a science and make it a big part of his game. He's just gonna have to adjust

Unfair is fans having to watch professional players flail for calls. Those perimeter step through calls were part of the reason Harden's game became so unwatchable for me.

That picture of harden...Idk just

What goes around comes around

You mean now he has to get his points by scoring the basketball on defenders, instead of grabbing, hooking and/or jumping on defenders and getting escorted to the FT line for cheap points?!!?
SO unfair!!!

Much of his scoring is predicated upon defenders being afraid to get close to him. He's a great shooter, playmaker and ballhandler but his stats have been unfairly boosted for almost a decade by ridiculous flopping and foul baiting calls.

We saw what happened to him in the postseason several times when he didn't get the whistle. His game fell apart and he just began chucking stepback threes and glaring at the refs wtih every clank.

To be completely honest, out of the foul baiting guards, Trae and Curry are way more egregious than Harden in jumping into player and/or touch fouls baiting.

Harden definitely is being targeted unfairly. If you can't see that you are not an objective fan and are just a straight up a hater. Curry, Morant, Trae are still living at the line this season pulling the same crap they pull every year.

And on the topic of non jump shooting fouls, Harden is literally getting hit and hacked without calls. This is the same type of fouls that FT leaders like Giannis, Davis, Butler gets.

You cannot have two sets of standards, one for Harden, another for the rest of the league.

Harden has 9 free throw attempts in 3 games. I know he hasn't been himself, but that's a much larger drop-off than I expected. That's usually his total for just 1 game

Lunartic wrote:Much of his scoring is predicated upon defenders being afraid to get close to him. He's a great shooter, playmaker and ballhandler but his stats have been unfairly boosted for almost a decade by ridiculous flopping and foul baiting calls.

We saw what happened to him in the postseason several times when he didn't get the whistle. His game fell apart and he just began chucking stepback threes and glaring at the refs wtih every clank.

True, but Harden in the playoffs still went to the line 8 times per game (career average of 7.9, free throw rate of 48%). That's certainly down from his regular-season foul-drawing (8.7 attempts, ftr of 52%). In the Nets first 3 games, Harden is getting to the line 3 times per game (18% free throw rate). 3 games is a drop in the bucket, so we'll see if we're still talking about this after 10-15. I also think Harden has not looked aggressive on his drives so far this year. He looks to me like he's over-emphasizing being a playmaker and forcing it too much (hence the mountains of turnovers).

On this subject in general, I know there are plenty of Harden haters that are happy to see him get his perceived karmic retribution. I like to see less foul calls as much as anyone else. But I prefer rule changes that nudge the game in the right direction, rather than ones that cause dramatic effects. If Harden really averages 5 or less free throws on the season, I think that's an ugly look for the league.

Harden is a big strong guard with a big first step and elite handles. If he attacks the rim, he should be picking up a healthy amount of fouls. Right now he's not attacking the rim. 12% of his FGA has come inside 3 feet (career average of 27%). Right now he's playing awkward. Not sure if there's an injury or what, but I don't think a decrease in foul calls is the only reason he's playing so bad. I haven't seen that much foul fishing from Harden over the past 2 seasons anyways (besides on the step-backs), I think the narrative on his foul drawing is bigger than the actual amount of tricks he pulls today.

Teehee

Long overdue.

He’s just the poster child for this era.

Oh the humanity...

jamaalstar21 wrote:True, but Harden in the playoffs still went to the line 8 times per game (career average of 7.9, free throw rate of 48%). That's certainly down from his regular-season foul-drawing (8.7 attempts, ftr of 52%). In the Nets first 3 games, Harden is getting to the line 3 times per game (18% free throw rate). 3 games is a drop in the bucket, so we'll see if we're still talking about this after 10-15. I also think Harden has not looked aggressive on his drives so far this year. He looks to me like he's over-emphasizing being a playmaker and forcing it too much (hence the mountains of turnovers).

Agree that the sample size is too small. He's always been a turnover machine.

On this subject in general, I know there are plenty of Harden haters that are happy to see him get his perceived karmic retribution. I like to see less foul calls as much as anyone else. But I prefer rule changes that nudge the game in the right direction, rather than ones that cause dramatic effects. If Harden really averages 5 or less free throws on the season, I think that's an ugly look for the league.

Why is it an ugly look? Fans have been complaining about his non-basketball moves for almost 7 years now and he's only ramped it up later in his Hou years. It's not unreasonable to say Harden benefits from 2-3 foul calls that were non-basketball plays a game. That would add up to 4-6 FTA, so in a perfectly officiated world, it's not crazy to see him only average 4-5 FTA. We don't live in a perfect world so he will likely get back to 7 FTA this season.

Harden is a big strong guard with a big first step and elite handles. If he attacks the rim, he should be picking up a healthy amount of fouls. Right now he's not attacking the rim. 12% of his FGA has come inside 3 feet (career average of 27%). Right now he's playing awkward. Not sure if there's an injury or what, but I don't think a decrease in foul calls is the only reason he's playing so bad. I haven't seen that much foul fishing from Harden over the past 2 seasons anyways (besides on the step-backs), I think the narrative on his foul drawing is bigger than the actual amount of tricks he pulls today.

I don't disagree that guards that attack should get more FTA than guards that take stepback threes and kick their legs out and tumble to the floor.

There's a circular problem here. Much of Harden's prowess comes from his ability to draw fouls on defenders by trickery and ref manipulation. Defenders know that he will get the benefit of the doubt if there is any contact (sometimes none) even if Harden hooks the defender. Defenders are much more timid to play him physically or close and thus he has an easier time getting to the rim. He's not officiated like the rest of the basketball stars and that impacts everything.

He's absolutely elite and skilled, no question about it - I just ponder how much better a player like Lebron/Curry/Durant/Kawhi would be if they were always given the benefit of the doubt when they flopped, hooked players, kicked his legs out and otherwise tried to trick the refs.

James Harden (12.5) has the 2nd highest number of FTA per 100 possessions for his career in NBA history to Shaq (13.9):

https://stathead.com/tiny/rZwsi

When you account for:
(1) League averages - average number of FTA / 100 possessions in Shaq's MVP year was 27, and in Harden's MVP year was 22.1.
(2) Defenses actually tried to foul Shaq as a strategy.

I think it's fair to say that Harden has been the most successful player in NBA history at intentionally drawing fouls by a pretty good margin.

So, yeah, a lower foul threshold will disproportionately hurt Harden. He's designed his game that way.

Was it not unfair that Harden was taking advantage of the old rules? Nash needs to wake up.

LikeABosh wrote:Harden has 9 free throw attempts in 3 games. I know he hasn't been himself, but that's a much larger drop-off than I expected. That's usually his total for just 1 game

Considering if foul is called and missed FG it doesn't get counted towards counting stats. Harden is now averaging 16.3 FGA per game so while 3 FTA is low for him I don't think its absurd to think his numbers should be bellow 5 considering very low volume.

this has been a good thing imo for james. Do you know how many shots he misses and turnovers he racks up chasing these calls? hes shooting 47 percent from 3 so far and he actually can follow through and finish his stepback 3s because the foul isnt coming to bail him out. he has to change his game a little bit, but the guys a smart player, he will be okay.