Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022

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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#101 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:36 pm

The-Power wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Looks like Steph is in the bottom 4.5% of the league as an isolation defender.

You do realize that they have captured 16 * 0.9 = 14.4 possessions in isolation for Curry, right? That's not a meaningful sample size by any stretch of the imagination.


You gotta take that up with OP, Steve Kerr, and Synergy Sports Technology. I'm simply the messenger.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#102 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:13 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
bbalnation wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
I highly doubt that poster can prove it. Just a quick look at the Hawks and Grizzlies games vs the Warriors, that poster 100% used box score.

Not specific to either example from that poster but Steph gets isolated on defense 9.9% so far this season and is scored on 73% of the time in those situations. He gives shooting fouls 20% raising the eFG% in these situations to 77.3%. Essentially if a team needs a bucket, just have Curry be the primary defender in isolation.

When guarding the PnR ball handler, which happens 20.5% of the time this season, Steph is much better against this play. Opponents only scores 22.6% of the time.

Curry guards spot up shooters 40.4% of the time in the young season, only allowing the opponent to shoot 24%. He only fouls 3.3% of the time which slightly bumps the eFG% to 32.4%, he does well against this play type.

These are the only three defensive play types NBA.com has available through the young season for Steph Curry. The other ~29% of his defensive plays will probably be available as the season goes on and more data is recorded.

These numbers shouldn't be Earth shattering for Curry stans or Curry haters. Curry isn't a good on-ball defender when isolated but can be hid on defense within the scheme so not to get cooked every possession down. He knows his role and is able to execute it.


Where did you get this stat? I haven't been able to find it on NBA.com: not questioning your sources, it's an eye opening stat. I want to see how it compares to the rest of the league guards, even if team defenses differ and other variables exist.


Of course, here is the link. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TypeGrouping=defensive

If you start shuffling between play types, just be sure to toggle the defensive filter back on, it removes it every time play type is changed at the top.

I provided a screenshot as well just to show you what the landing page should be for Syngery isolation defensive metrics. If the link doesn't work or redirects you, I'll try to see if there is a different way to get you there.

Looks like Steph is in the bottom 4.5% of the league as an isolation defender.


Kinda hard to use a sample of 15 possessions to draw a conclusion. That puts him barely in the top 100 in total iso defensive possessions.

Pick & Roll Ball Handler - 92.2 percentile and on 31 possessions. Still not a lot of data.

Spot up - 93rd

Off screen 97.6

But anyway almost all getting this granular at this point does it create a lot of noise.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#103 » by Warriors Analyst » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:17 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
The-Power wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Looks like Steph is in the bottom 4.5% of the league as an isolation defender.

You do realize that they have captured 16 * 0.9 = 14.4 possessions in isolation for Curry, right? That's not a meaningful sample size by any stretch of the imagination.


You gotta take that up with OP, Steve Kerr, and Synergy Sports Technology. I'm simply the messenger.


How does that invalidate The Power's statement? 15 possessions is a tiny sample size that doesn't mean much at all. I think those numbers will be far more interesting to consider later in the season when the sample size is bigger. I think that holds true for most of Steph's defensive numbers.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#104 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:25 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
The-Power wrote:You do realize that they have captured 16 * 0.9 = 14.4 possessions in isolation for Curry, right? That's not a meaningful sample size by any stretch of the imagination.


You gotta take that up with OP, Steve Kerr, and Synergy Sports Technology. I'm simply the messenger.


How does that invalidate The Power's statement? 15 possessions is a tiny sample size that doesn't mean much at all. I think those numbers will be far more interesting to consider later in the season when the sample size is bigger. I think that holds true for most of Steph's defensive numbers.
Didn't say it did but OP claimed specifically Steph was playing great iso defense, stats do no back his claim. Therefore take it up with him.

Kerr isn't putting Steph in more iso situations as a defender, gotta take that up with him to see a larger sample size.

SST has only captured 14.4 iso defensive possessions thus far but they potentially could capture more, I don't work there, gotta take it up with them and how they define play types to have a larger sample size.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#105 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:44 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
bbalnation wrote:
Where did you get this stat? I haven't been able to find it on NBA.com: not questioning your sources, it's an eye opening stat. I want to see how it compares to the rest of the league guards, even if team defenses differ and other variables exist.


Of course, here is the link. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TypeGrouping=defensive

If you start shuffling between play types, just be sure to toggle the defensive filter back on, it removes it every time play type is changed at the top.

I provided a screenshot as well just to show you what the landing page should be for Syngery isolation defensive metrics. If the link doesn't work or redirects you, I'll try to see if there is a different way to get you there.

Looks like Steph is in the bottom 4.5% of the league as an isolation defender.


Kinda hard to use a sample of 15 possessions to draw a conclusion. That puts him barely in the top 100 in total iso defensive possessions.

Pick & Roll Ball Handler - 92.2 percentile and on 31 possessions. Still not a lot of data.

Spot up - 93rd

Off screen 97.6

But anyway almost all getting this granular at this point does it create a lot of noise.

I'm well aware it is a small sample size but the whole thread is predicated on OP claiming Steph has been a phenomenal ISO defender this season which means he should make either all defensive team. The stats do not reflect this claim, I can only operate within the parameters given. OP's method of just going into the box score and looking at the opposing PG's raw FG% then saying Steph locked them up is not a valid way to measure how well Steph is doing as an ISO defender through 16 games.

Sidebar, gotta make sure you're toggling that offensive/defensive filter like I told bbalnation when I gave him the link. You just provided us with Steph's offensive numbers off screen play types, which we all know he is phenomenal at. Kerr's offense fits him like a glove, we all know this.

Through 16 games, Steph's defensive breakdown by play type is...

Iso: 4.5 percentile on 14.4 possessios

PnR ball handler: 92.2 percentile on 30.4 possessions

Spot up: 93.0 percentile on 60.8 possessions

Off screen: does not qualify (not enough data)

Transition: does not qualify (not enough data)

Post up: does not qualify (not enough data)

PnR roll man: does not qualify (not enough data)

Hand off: does not qualify (not enough data)

Cut: purely an offensive metric

Put back: no statistics are currently available
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#106 » by NoBias » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:12 pm

Big J wrote:
NoBias wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:
So has everyone that's tried to guard Curry.


Except Fred Vanvleet.


That was a box and one.


I’m talking about their last meeting this year
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#107 » by michaelm » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:10 pm

NoBias wrote:
Big J wrote:
NoBias wrote:
Except Fred Vanvleet.


That was a box and one.


I’m talking about their last meeting this year

On which occasion the Raptors used the box and 1 again on Curry and got blown out by 30 point games from the other scorers GSW have now, and I rather expect the tactic to be even less successful if an at all capable Klay Thompson makes a return.

Curry going back to his college days is happy to take the defensive focus and facilitate his team mates when such tactics are employed. I regard it as a positive that he won’t chuck to keep his numbers up in such circumstances, even though I am sure he wouldn’t mind another scoring title. Sure more physically dominant players like LeBron and KD are less liable to be affected by such janky defensive schemes, but GSW fans don’t care as long as the team wins which they did rather easily, and it doesn’t seem to upset Curry overly either.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#108 » by BoatsNZones » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:24 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
Of course, here is the link. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TypeGrouping=defensive

If you start shuffling between play types, just be sure to toggle the defensive filter back on, it removes it every time play type is changed at the top.

I provided a screenshot as well just to show you what the landing page should be for Syngery isolation defensive metrics. If the link doesn't work or redirects you, I'll try to see if there is a different way to get you there.

Looks like Steph is in the bottom 4.5% of the league as an isolation defender.


Kinda hard to use a sample of 15 possessions to draw a conclusion. That puts him barely in the top 100 in total iso defensive possessions.

Pick & Roll Ball Handler - 92.2 percentile and on 31 possessions. Still not a lot of data.

Spot up - 93rd

Off screen 97.6

But anyway almost all getting this granular at this point does it create a lot of noise.

I'm well aware it is a small sample size but the whole thread is predicated on OP claiming Steph has been a phenomenal ISO defender this season which means he should make either all defensive team. The stats do not reflect this claim, I can only operate within the parameters given. OP's method of just going into the box score and looking at the opposing PG's raw FG% then saying Steph locked them up is not a valid way to measure how well Steph is doing as an ISO defender through 16 games.

Sidebar, gotta make sure you're toggling that offensive/defensive filter like I told bbalnation when I gave him the link. You just provided us with Steph's offensive numbers off screen play types, which we all know he is phenomenal at. Kerr's offense fits him like a glove, we all know this.

Through 16 games, Steph's defensive breakdown by play type is...

Iso: 4.5 percentile on 14.4 possessios

PnR ball handler: 92.2 percentile on 30.4 possessions

Spot up: 93.0 percentile on 60.8 possessions

Off screen: does not qualify (not enough data)

Transition: does not qualify (not enough data)

Post up: does not qualify (not enough data)

PnR roll man: does not qualify (not enough data)

Hand off: does not qualify (not enough data)

Cut: purely an offensive metric

Put back: no statistics are currently available

None of these have enough data if we're being honest. His ISO's per game for example are about 0.5 a night last I checked. Which is similar to what he had last season and rated in the 93rd percentile. When ~5 plays can massively effect your total season data sample (let alone the first 17 games, where literally a single play holds high value at these sample sizes), it's just a throwaway statistic.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#109 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:36 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Kinda hard to use a sample of 15 possessions to draw a conclusion. That puts him barely in the top 100 in total iso defensive possessions.

Pick & Roll Ball Handler - 92.2 percentile and on 31 possessions. Still not a lot of data.

Spot up - 93rd

Off screen 97.6

But anyway almost all getting this granular at this point does it create a lot of noise.

I'm well aware it is a small sample size but the whole thread is predicated on OP claiming Steph has been a phenomenal ISO defender this season which means he should make either all defensive team. The stats do not reflect this claim, I can only operate within the parameters given. OP's method of just going into the box score and looking at the opposing PG's raw FG% then saying Steph locked them up is not a valid way to measure how well Steph is doing as an ISO defender through 16 games.

Sidebar, gotta make sure you're toggling that offensive/defensive filter like I told bbalnation when I gave him the link. You just provided us with Steph's offensive numbers off screen play types, which we all know he is phenomenal at. Kerr's offense fits him like a glove, we all know this.

Through 16 games, Steph's defensive breakdown by play type is...

Iso: 4.5 percentile on 14.4 possessios

PnR ball handler: 92.2 percentile on 30.4 possessions

Spot up: 93.0 percentile on 60.8 possessions

Off screen: does not qualify (not enough data)

Transition: does not qualify (not enough data)

Post up: does not qualify (not enough data)

PnR roll man: does not qualify (not enough data)

Hand off: does not qualify (not enough data)

Cut: purely an offensive metric

Put back: no statistics are currently available

None of these have enough data if we're being honest. His ISO's per game for example are about 0.5 a night last I checked. Which is similar to what he had last season and rated in the 93rd percentile. When ~5 plays can massively effect your total season data sample (let alone the first 17 games, where literally a single play holds high value at these sample sizes), it's just a throwaway statistic.

Maybe, maybe not. It's a lot more accurate than what OP did to arrive at the conclusion Steph is an elite ISO defender thus far this season lol
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#110 » by BoatsNZones » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:42 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm well aware it is a small sample size but the whole thread is predicated on OP claiming Steph has been a phenomenal ISO defender this season which means he should make either all defensive team. The stats do not reflect this claim, I can only operate within the parameters given. OP's method of just going into the box score and looking at the opposing PG's raw FG% then saying Steph locked them up is not a valid way to measure how well Steph is doing as an ISO defender through 16 games.

Sidebar, gotta make sure you're toggling that offensive/defensive filter like I told bbalnation when I gave him the link. You just provided us with Steph's offensive numbers off screen play types, which we all know he is phenomenal at. Kerr's offense fits him like a glove, we all know this.

Through 16 games, Steph's defensive breakdown by play type is...

Iso: 4.5 percentile on 14.4 possessios

PnR ball handler: 92.2 percentile on 30.4 possessions

Spot up: 93.0 percentile on 60.8 possessions

Off screen: does not qualify (not enough data)

Transition: does not qualify (not enough data)

Post up: does not qualify (not enough data)

PnR roll man: does not qualify (not enough data)

Hand off: does not qualify (not enough data)

Cut: purely an offensive metric

Put back: no statistics are currently available

None of these have enough data if we're being honest. His ISO's per game for example are about 0.5 a night last I checked. Which is similar to what he had last season and rated in the 93rd percentile. When ~5 plays can massively effect your total season data sample (let alone the first 17 games, where literally a single play holds high value at these sample sizes), it's just a throwaway statistic.

Maybe, maybe not. It's a lot more accurate than what OP did to arrive at the conclusion Steph is an elite ISO defender thus far this season lol

Well yeah, he's not an elite ISO defender and never has been (he's fine, not elite. Certainly the worst part of his defense), but just going by your own choice of statistics he rated in the 93rd percentile in ISO last season. As is you're going by a sample total of about 9 registered plays this season, assuming they're even tracked properly (which has been a known issue for NBA.com stats). It's meaningless.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#111 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:54 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:None of these have enough data if we're being honest. His ISO's per game for example are about 0.5 a night last I checked. Which is similar to what he had last season and rated in the 93rd percentile. When ~5 plays can massively effect your total season data sample (let alone the first 17 games, where literally a single play holds high value at these sample sizes), it's just a throwaway statistic.

Maybe, maybe not. It's a lot more accurate than what OP did to arrive at the conclusion Steph is an elite ISO defender thus far this season lol

Well yeah, he's not an elite ISO defender and never has been (he's fine, not elite. Certainly the worst part of his defense), but just going by your own choice of statistics he rated in the 93rd percentile in ISO last season. As is you're going by a sample total of about 9 registered plays this season, assuming they're even tracked properly (which has been a known issue for NBA.com stats). It's meaningless.

It's 14.4 plays total this season but again, it is not my choice of stats lol it is me simply providing what OP couldn't/wouldn't and it's much better than the several posters in this thread who have recommended their amateur eye test at fact.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#112 » by Michael Jackson » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:58 pm

Big J wrote:
dockingsched wrote:This is an insult to true elite defenders like Alex Caruso.


Caruso got absolutely cooked when he tried guarding Curry.



Curry cooks everyone, the argument wasn't that Curry could smoke him, it is who is a better defender over all
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#113 » by michaelm » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:04 am

JujitsuFlip wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Maybe, maybe not. It's a lot more accurate than what OP did to arrive at the conclusion Steph is an elite ISO defender thus far this season lol

Well yeah, he's not an elite ISO defender and never has been (he's fine, not elite. Certainly the worst part of his defense), but just going by your own choice of statistics he rated in the 93rd percentile in ISO last season. As is you're going by a sample total of about 9 registered plays this season, assuming they're even tracked properly (which has been a known issue for NBA.com stats). It's meaningless.

It's 14.4 plays total this season but again, it is not my choice of stats lol it is me simply providing what OP couldn't/wouldn't and it's much better than the several posters in this thread who have recommended their amateur eye test at fact.

I bow to few as far as being a keen Curry fan is concerned, but am more in the not a weakness for GSW /puts in a strong effort defensively despite being so intensely active on offense camp rather than promoting him as an all defensive team guy, but am happy to be proved wrong of course which will take more than 17 games to prove statistically or otherwise.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#114 » by michaelm » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:05 am

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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#115 » by OdomFan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:12 am

no because he still average at defense. Yall wanna hand him everything I see.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#116 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:56 am

michaelm wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:Well yeah, he's not an elite ISO defender and never has been (he's fine, not elite. Certainly the worst part of his defense), but just going by your own choice of statistics he rated in the 93rd percentile in ISO last season. As is you're going by a sample total of about 9 registered plays this season, assuming they're even tracked properly (which has been a known issue for NBA.com stats). It's meaningless.

It's 14.4 plays total this season but again, it is not my choice of stats lol it is me simply providing what OP couldn't/wouldn't and it's much better than the several posters in this thread who have recommended their amateur eye test at fact.

I bow to few as far as being a keen Curry fan is concerned, but am more in the not a weakness for GSW /puts in a strong effort defensively despite being so intensely active on offense camp rather than promoting him as an all defensive team guy, but am happy to be proved wrong of course which will take more than 17 games to prove statistically or otherwise.

Yeah, I can agree with that. I doubt many, if any of the 100 broadcasters and sportswriters who vote for all defensive teams look at many if any advanced metrics.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#117 » by Big J » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:27 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
Big J wrote:
dockingsched wrote:This is an insult to true elite defenders like Alex Caruso.


Caruso got absolutely cooked when he tried guarding Curry.



Curry cooks everyone, the argument wasn't that Curry could smoke him, it is who is a better defender over all


Curry doesn’t get cooked by Curry tho.
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#118 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:29 am

Big J wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
Big J wrote:
Caruso got absolutely cooked when he tried guarding Curry.



Curry cooks everyone, the argument wasn't that Curry could smoke him, it is who is a better defender over all


Curry doesn’t get cooked by Curry tho.



True well unless you count Seth then yeah he does
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#119 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:32 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
Big J wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

Curry cooks everyone, the argument wasn't that Curry could smoke him, it is who is a better defender over all


Curry doesn’t get cooked by Curry tho.



True well unless you count Seth then yeah he does


I was gonna say, I just seen Curry drop Curry in the 1st quarter of this game lol
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Re: Will Curry make the All Defensive Team in 2022 

Post#120 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:22 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
Of course, here is the link. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TypeGrouping=defensive

If you start shuffling between play types, just be sure to toggle the defensive filter back on, it removes it every time play type is changed at the top.

I provided a screenshot as well just to show you what the landing page should be for Syngery isolation defensive metrics. If the link doesn't work or redirects you, I'll try to see if there is a different way to get you there.

Looks like Steph is in the bottom 4.5% of the league as an isolation defender.


Kinda hard to use a sample of 15 possessions to draw a conclusion. That puts him barely in the top 100 in total iso defensive possessions.

Pick & Roll Ball Handler - 92.2 percentile and on 31 possessions. Still not a lot of data.

Spot up - 93rd

Off screen 97.6

But anyway almost all getting this granular at this point does it create a lot of noise.

I'm well aware it is a small sample size but the whole thread is predicated on OP claiming Steph has been a phenomenal ISO defender this season which means he should make either all defensive team. The stats do not reflect this claim, I can only operate within the parameters given. OP's method of just going into the box score and looking at the opposing PG's raw FG% then saying Steph locked them up is not a valid way to measure how well Steph is doing as an ISO defender through 16 games.

Sidebar, gotta make sure you're toggling that offensive/defensive filter like I told bbalnation when I gave him the link. You just provided us with Steph's offensive numbers off screen play types, which we all know he is phenomenal at. Kerr's offense fits him like a glove, we all know this.

Through 16 games, Steph's defensive breakdown by play type is...

Iso: 4.5 percentile on 14.4 possessios

PnR ball handler: 92.2 percentile on 30.4 possessions

Spot up: 93.0 percentile on 60.8 possessions

Off screen: does not qualify (not enough data)

Transition: does not qualify (not enough data)

Post up: does not qualify (not enough data)

PnR roll man: does not qualify (not enough data)

Hand off: does not qualify (not enough data)

Cut: purely an offensive metric

Put back: no statistics are currently available


Weird, I 100% did make sure I toggled back to defense each time. One of the many reasons I hate NBA.com's site. Great data...awful tool to present it.
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