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Honestly I agree with the earlier poster saying denver should just tank the season, bench jokic, see if they can clear MPJ off the books somehow, and get a high draft pick. See what the offseason looks like and get murray back

They should just let guys like Bones/Bol Bol play the season out.

Even if MPJ was healthy, they're not beating either LA team, PHX, GS, or Utah in the PO

asas wrote:

Lala870 wrote:Nuggets FO RN

I mean he wanted to leave so it's not like they did something wrong. Ofc they would take him even with MPJ.

BTW resigning Grant would have been bad mistake

^^^ How so? I mean Denver did offer him a contract...

Lala870 wrote:^^^ How so? I mean Denver did offer him a contract...

Yes they did and fortunately for them he left for Detroit. Grant is ofensively not better than healty MPJ and defensively he is not better than AG. Volume scorer on bad team.

vxmike wrote:They should have sold high and traded him rather than offering that extension.

Nuggets have let a few opportunities slip away that they should have sold high on. All that great young talent they had a few years back is dwindling.

asas wrote:

BelgradeNugget wrote:

timO wrote:which risk?

at worst he is RFA and u equal a max over 4 years

giving him the full max is

It is not as they chose between MPJ and KD. What if they waited a year, sign him next year and the same thing happens?
Healthy MPJ is 3rd best player on championship team. Unhealthy MPJ is not. Without MPJ they don't have that player, and can't sign another one.

Waiting a year to see if he actually takes a big leap is a very good decision. He wasn't "that" special but had a lot of potential.

The "3rd best player on a championship team" is just a bad statement. It depends on the rest of the team. Is Rondo a 3rd best player on a championship team? Or Kuzma/KCP? There's 0 consistency in using this to describe a player.

We all understand that it takes guts for a team to not sign his deal. By the way that's a problem with the whole league, not only Nuggets. I remember Wiggins situation was similar. Wolves were scared to let him go and decided to sign him and pray. Nuggets should have more confidence in themselves cuz in the last 5 yearts their scouting was insane.

If an all nba first team player gets signed for the same amount as MPJ(who is not even an all-star.) let's be real and acnowledge that there's something wrong with these contracts.

The main difference between Wiggins and MPJ was that Minnesota paid Wiggins on their expectations what he would become, potential. He was low efficiency volume scorer. MPJ last season was 20 ppg scorer with KD like efficiency, good rebounder, neutral defender at PF spot. Absolutely deserved rookie scale max extension. He was perfect fit with Jokic, Murray, AG and Barton. That starting 5, when healthy were champion favorites.
And again, what if they waited a year to resign him and injury happens at the start of next season.

He’s done in my opinion. It’s an insurance game at this point. GM should also be let go, it was an asinine deal at the time and now it’ll cost Jokic and the Nuggets title opportunities for sure.

In some alternate reality we would get to see Jokic v Embiid in the Finals but this universe has other plans.

Dumb GM..

Dominater wrote:And they're on the hook for $200 million

It was a dumb thing to do even when not considering the injury risk. You don't max out a guy a year early when he hasn't proven to be max worthy. You only extend guys like that early if the team is getting a little early bird discount

So, I’ll put myself out there here.

While I’m not sure I’d have max’s out Porter a year early due to Covid concerns, otherwise I’d probably have done the same.

The back injury concerns are of course a big reason to hold off, but I’m giving the Nuggets the benefit of the doubt that they did their due diligence medically. If the doctors are wrong, the doctors are wrong. If that’s not what the doctors said, then of course it’s on the Nuggets.

As far as him not demonstrating max level play, I’d disagree. I think people drastically underrate what Porter has actually shown because he hasn’t been named all-star. But when Murray went down he was easily playing at an all-star level.

As far as when to max a guy out early in general, that’s just a tough one. There are costs and benefits to both approaches. You can certainly argue that teams would be wiser to wait to commit until you have to commit, but there are reasons why teams decide to do otherwise.


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BelgradeNugget wrote:

asas wrote:

BelgradeNugget wrote:It is not as they chose between MPJ and KD. What if they waited a year, sign him next year and the same thing happens?
Healthy MPJ is 3rd best player on championship team. Unhealthy MPJ is not. Without MPJ they don't have that player, and can't sign another one.

Waiting a year to see if he actually takes a big leap is a very good decision. He wasn't "that" special but had a lot of potential.

The "3rd best player on a championship team" is just a bad statement. It depends on the rest of the team. Is Rondo a 3rd best player on a championship team? Or Kuzma/KCP? There's 0 consistency in using this to describe a player.

We all understand that it takes guts for a team to not sign his deal. By the way that's a problem with the whole league, not only Nuggets. I remember Wiggins situation was similar. Wolves were scared to let him go and decided to sign him and pray. Nuggets should have more confidence in themselves cuz in the last 5 yearts their scouting was insane.

If an all nba first team player gets signed for the same amount as MPJ(who is not even an all-star.) let's be real and acnowledge that there's something wrong with these contracts.

The main difference between Wiggins and MPJ was that Minnesota paid Wiggins on their expectations what he would become, potential. He was low efficiency volume scorer. MPJ last season was 20 ppg scorer with KD like efficiency, good rebounder, neutral defender at PF spot. Absolutely deserved rookie scale max extension. He was perfect fit with Jokic, Murray, AG and Barton. That starting 5, when healthy were champion favorites.
And again, what if they waited a year to resign him and injury happens at the start of next season.

Dude, i dont know what fantasy version of NBA you watched but MPJ was a spot up shooter that could not create his shot to save his life and defended as well as Belgium in WW2. Dude was trash at everything except spotups. Even if you disregard his health issues he was never worth a max. NEVER. Galinari at the same age was 10 times the player MPJ showed at his best.

Truly awful move by Denver.

Alatan wrote:

BelgradeNugget wrote:

asas wrote:
Waiting a year to see if he actually takes a big leap is a very good decision. He wasn't "that" special but had a lot of potential.

The "3rd best player on a championship team" is just a bad statement. It depends on the rest of the team. Is Rondo a 3rd best player on a championship team? Or Kuzma/KCP? There's 0 consistency in using this to describe a player.

We all understand that it takes guts for a team to not sign his deal. By the way that's a problem with the whole league, not only Nuggets. I remember Wiggins situation was similar. Wolves were scared to let him go and decided to sign him and pray. Nuggets should have more confidence in themselves cuz in the last 5 yearts their scouting was insane.

If an all nba first team player gets signed for the same amount as MPJ(who is not even an all-star.) let's be real and acnowledge that there's something wrong with these contracts.

The main difference between Wiggins and MPJ was that Minnesota paid Wiggins on their expectations what he would become, potential. He was low efficiency volume scorer. MPJ last season was 20 ppg scorer with KD like efficiency, good rebounder, neutral defender at PF spot. Absolutely deserved rookie scale max extension. He was perfect fit with Jokic, Murray, AG and Barton. That starting 5, when healthy were champion favorites.
And again, what if they waited a year to resign him and injury happens at the start of next season.

Dude, i dont know what fantasy version of NBA you watched but MPJ was a spot up shooter that could not create his shot to save his life and defended as well as Belgium in WW2. Dude was trash at everything except spotups. Even if you disregard his health issues he was never worth a max. NEVER. Galinari at the same age was 10 times the player MPJ showed at his best.

Truly awful move by Denver.

When that spot up shot can get off over anyone at the efficiency he could bring, that is a MASSIVELY valuable player. It's Kevin Durant's greatest asset as a player. A healthy MPJ would have been an absolute force, and he was an absolute force at just 22 years old last season. From early March until the end of the season (before he got hurt again... sigh) in 35 games he was averaging 23 and 8 on 58/48/80. THAT is a max player any way you want to cut it.

He was always a massive, massive injury risk though. I was really hoping he was going to be able to stay on the floor. This is devastating for the Nuggets. What is worse for them is that he's still only making $5 million this season, so they won't be able to utilize an injury exception to sign anyone.

Lala870 wrote:Honestly I agree with the earlier poster saying denver should just tank the season, bench jokic, see if they can clear MPJ off the books somehow, and get a high draft pick. See what the offseason looks like and get murray back

They should just let guys like Bones/Bol Bol play the season out.

Even if MPJ was healthy, they're not beating either LA team, PHX, GS, or Utah in the PO

How about no Why should they shut down player who is his prime and having a stellar season so far , team was playing better without Porter this season, when they were all healthy, Denver is still play off team with Jokic and if Murray comes back in the second half of the season, Denver can still make some noise in the play off's. I dont think Chet Holmgren is the game changer for Denver.

Lala870 wrote:Honestly I agree with the earlier poster saying denver should just tank the season, bench jokic, see if they can clear MPJ off the books somehow, and get a high draft pick. See what the offseason looks like and get murray back

They should just let guys like Bones/Bol Bol play the season out.

Even if MPJ was healthy, they're not beating either LA team, PHX, GS, or Utah in the PO

They could pull a warriors and tank. Jokic, MPJ, Murray, and a top 5 pick for next season wow.

BoatsNZones wrote:

Alatan wrote:

BelgradeNugget wrote:The main difference between Wiggins and MPJ was that Minnesota paid Wiggins on their expectations what he would become, potential. He was low efficiency volume scorer. MPJ last season was 20 ppg scorer with KD like efficiency, good rebounder, neutral defender at PF spot. Absolutely deserved rookie scale max extension. He was perfect fit with Jokic, Murray, AG and Barton. That starting 5, when healthy were champion favorites.
And again, what if they waited a year to resign him and injury happens at the start of next season.

Dude, i dont know what fantasy version of NBA you watched but MPJ was a spot up shooter that could not create his shot to save his life and defended as well as Belgium in WW2. Dude was trash at everything except spotups. Even if you disregard his health issues he was never worth a max. NEVER. Galinari at the same age was 10 times the player MPJ showed at his best.

Truly awful move by Denver.

When that spot up shot can get off over anyone at the efficiency he could bring, that is a MASSIVELY valuable player. It's Kevin Durant's greatest asset as a player. A healthy MPJ would have been an absolute force, and he was an absolute force at just 22 years old last season. From early March until the end of the season (before he got hurt again... sigh) in 35 games he was averaging 23 and 8 on 58/48/80. THAT is a max player any way you want to cut it.

He was always a massive, massive injury risk though. I was really hoping he was going to be able to stay on the floor. This is devastating for the Nuggets. What is worse for them is that he's still only making $5 million this season, so they won't be able to utilize an injury exception to sign anyone.

No, Durants greatest asset is that he is a 6 10 player who can shoot over anyone at a high efficiency AND create his shot. Porter is just a tall spot up shooter. Bringing up a stretch of games where he got easy shots against sucky teams doesnt make him a star to be. Dude was always overrated. Not only cant he create his shot he can barely dribble the ball. He is weak and soft and avoids contact, cant play as a big either. He even sucked shooting of the move. His defense is non existent apart form rebounding. It has had no chance to become better because he is too slow to guard wings/guards, too weak to defend bigs and has bad awareness to be a team defender.

At no point was he worth a max contract even with full health guaranteed. If averaging 20 ppg for a short stretch of games was a sign of stardom then we would 3 stars on every team in the NBA.

Alatan wrote:

BelgradeNugget wrote:

asas wrote:
Waiting a year to see if he actually takes a big leap is a very good decision. He wasn't "that" special but had a lot of potential.

The "3rd best player on a championship team" is just a bad statement. It depends on the rest of the team. Is Rondo a 3rd best player on a championship team? Or Kuzma/KCP? There's 0 consistency in using this to describe a player.

We all understand that it takes guts for a team to not sign his deal. By the way that's a problem with the whole league, not only Nuggets. I remember Wiggins situation was similar. Wolves were scared to let him go and decided to sign him and pray. Nuggets should have more confidence in themselves cuz in the last 5 yearts their scouting was insane.

If an all nba first team player gets signed for the same amount as MPJ(who is not even an all-star.) let's be real and acnowledge that there's something wrong with these contracts.

The main difference between Wiggins and MPJ was that Minnesota paid Wiggins on their expectations what he would become, potential. He was low efficiency volume scorer. MPJ last season was 20 ppg scorer with KD like efficiency, good rebounder, neutral defender at PF spot. Absolutely deserved rookie scale max extension. He was perfect fit with Jokic, Murray, AG and Barton. That starting 5, when healthy were champion favorites.
And again, what if they waited a year to resign him and injury happens at the start of next season.

Dude, i dont know what fantasy version of NBA you watched but MPJ was a spot up shooter that could not create his shot to save his life and defended as well as Belgium in WW2. Dude was trash at everything except spotups. Even if you disregard his health issues he was never worth a max. NEVER. Galinari at the same age was 10 times the player MPJ showed at his best.

Truly awful move by Denver.

Klay is also spot up shooter, one of the best ever, but spot up shooter, nothing more, nothing less. Good for 2nd/3rd option for dynasty. MPJ is in his league as shooter. Defensively MPJ was terrible as rookie, and as wing defender, after AG trade was solid. Look for any defensive stat for MPJ in year 1 he was among the worst in the league. In year 2 was average.

Alatan wrote:

BoatsNZones wrote:

Alatan wrote:
Dude, i dont know what fantasy version of NBA you watched but MPJ was a spot up shooter that could not create his shot to save his life and defended as well as Belgium in WW2. Dude was trash at everything except spotups. Even if you disregard his health issues he was never worth a max. NEVER. Galinari at the same age was 10 times the player MPJ showed at his best.

Truly awful move by Denver.

When that spot up shot can get off over anyone at the efficiency he could bring, that is a MASSIVELY valuable player. It's Kevin Durant's greatest asset as a player. A healthy MPJ would have been an absolute force, and he was an absolute force at just 22 years old last season. From early March until the end of the season (before he got hurt again... sigh) in 35 games he was averaging 23 and 8 on 58/48/80. THAT is a max player any way you want to cut it.

He was always a massive, massive injury risk though. I was really hoping he was going to be able to stay on the floor. This is devastating for the Nuggets. What is worse for them is that he's still only making $5 million this season, so they won't be able to utilize an injury exception to sign anyone.

No, Durants greatest asset is that he is a 6 10 player who can shoot over anyone at a high efficiency AND create his shot. Porter is just a tall spot up shooter. Bringing up a stretch of games where he got easy shots against sucky teams doesnt make him a star to be. Dude was always overrated. Not only cant he create his shot he can barely dribble the ball. He is weak and soft and avoids contact, cant play as a big either. He even sucked shooting of the move. His defense is non existent apart form rebounding. It has had no chance to become better because he is too slow to guard wings/guards, too weak to defend bigs and has bad awareness to be a team defender.

At no point was he worth a max contract even with full health guaranteed. If averaging 20 ppg for a short stretch of games was a sign of stardom then we would 3 stars on every team in the NBA.

KD's ability to also create his own shot is what puts him into the discussions with the All Time Greats. Nobody is talking that way about MPJ (potential or otherwise). I did not bring up some small sample of games. I brought up the only stretch of games in his career where he was starting + healthy. And it was months on end, not some small sample against a batch of weak teams lol (it was the majority of his season). You clearly did not spend much if any time watching the Nuggets last season. He was an absolute force and integral to their success.

Defensively he had plenty to work on, but that's not exactly uncommon for young players in this league. KD was an atrocious defender at his age also.

Anyway I'm not here to debate his worth. You either saw him when he was healthy or you didn't. It just sucks that this theme of devastating injuries does not seem to be going anywhere for the kid.

Alatan wrote:

BelgradeNugget wrote:

asas wrote:
Waiting a year to see if he actually takes a big leap is a very good decision. He wasn't "that" special but had a lot of potential.

The "3rd best player on a championship team" is just a bad statement. It depends on the rest of the team. Is Rondo a 3rd best player on a championship team? Or Kuzma/KCP? There's 0 consistency in using this to describe a player.

We all understand that it takes guts for a team to not sign his deal. By the way that's a problem with the whole league, not only Nuggets. I remember Wiggins situation was similar. Wolves were scared to let him go and decided to sign him and pray. Nuggets should have more confidence in themselves cuz in the last 5 yearts their scouting was insane.

If an all nba first team player gets signed for the same amount as MPJ(who is not even an all-star.) let's be real and acnowledge that there's something wrong with these contracts.

The main difference between Wiggins and MPJ was that Minnesota paid Wiggins on their expectations what he would become, potential. He was low efficiency volume scorer. MPJ last season was 20 ppg scorer with KD like efficiency, good rebounder, neutral defender at PF spot. Absolutely deserved rookie scale max extension. He was perfect fit with Jokic, Murray, AG and Barton. That starting 5, when healthy were champion favorites.
And again, what if they waited a year to resign him and injury happens at the start of next season.

Dude, i dont know what fantasy version of NBA you watched but MPJ was a spot up shooter that could not create his shot to save his life and defended as well as Belgium in WW2. Dude was trash at everything except spotups. Even if you disregard his health issues he was never worth a max. NEVER. Galinari at the same age was 10 times the player MPJ showed at his best.

Truly awful move by Denver.

Again about his defense.
1. last year he was 25/97 defensively among SFs by DRPM http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2021/sort/DRPM/position/5
2. 75/122 in def. Raptor, right there with Jerami Grant, behind Morris brothers, ahead of our Greens, Zion, Siakam...
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
Whatever defensive stat you can find you will see that last year he was average, which is not bad for 2nd year player

i dont think its fair to say his career is "done"....

This really sucks to see nerve issues in your back are a very very serious thing

Hopefully he can overcome this

LAvision wrote:So how exactly do you fix a nerve issue? Seems like something he'll deal with forever.

Decompressing, which means a third back surgery in his twenties. That video of him missing the layup made me feel really bad about the guy, no matter how rich he is.
Let's see if the Nuggets included some kind of additional insurance on this issue because otherwise they should have known and nobody is going to pay that 200M.

If it was a freak accident, Denver would be fine financially because insurance covers 80% of this. But this really seems like a case where insurance would refuse coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/13432/insurance-helps-bulls-foot-roses-bill

MetLife offers insurance to teams on an annual basis, but the insurance company can put exclusions on certain players or even body parts. If that happens, the team can opt out of the plan and try to find another insurance plan. As Larry Coon's salary cap website, cbafaq.com, notes, Luol Deng was excluded in 2008-09 because of a history of back injuries.

That's also what happened when the New York Knicks signed Amar'e Stoudemire to a $100 million deal in 2010. His well-documented knee problems, which included micro-fracture surgery, were deemed uninsurable.