MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season

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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#141 » by The Rebel » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:04 pm

Effigy wrote:Sad news for him, but he is set financially.

The Nuggets are absolute morons for giving him that contract though. In my opinion if a guy isn't a surefire superstar (Trey, Luka) you don't max them out early, you make them take more of a bargain deal or wait until the fourth year when they are restricted. (Like Atlanta did with Collins, and like Phoenix will do with Ayton) When you give these guys max contracts when it isn't clear they are max players, you are literally bidding against yourselves. The only reason to agree to a deal earlier than you have to is if it will save you money in the long run. You trade the guaranteed security now in exchange for something less than a max deal.


A 2nd year player putting up 25/7 on 66% TS% when he was made the 2nd option doesn't show superstar potential? I guess you missed the last half of last season, when MPJ was finally given the green light?
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#142 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:09 pm

Was Colangelo an idiot for giving a 5 years max to Embiid, after he played a total of 31 games in 3 years?
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Re: MPJ’s with severe nerve issue in his back that could end his season 

Post#143 » by Harry Garris » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:21 pm

Dominater wrote:And they're on the hook for $200 million

It was a dumb thing to do even when not considering the injury risk. You don't max out a guy a year early when he hasn't proven to be max worthy. You only extend guys like that early if the team is getting a little early bird discount


And yet half of this site and 95% of NBA Twitter gave the Suns a lot of grief for not maxing Ayton despite Ayton having never proved to be a max worthy player.

The common etiquette now is that you're supposed to max young promising players. And I agree MPJ had much less of a sample size of being promising and was much more of an injury risk than other young guys who are getting maxes. But if the Nuggets didn't give him the max extension they would have been crucified in the court of public opinion just like the Suns.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#144 » by Effigy » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Effigy wrote:Sad news for him, but he is set financially.

The Nuggets are absolute morons for giving him that contract though. In my opinion if a guy isn't a surefire superstar (Trey, Luka) you don't max them out early, you make them take more of a bargain deal or wait until the fourth year when they are restricted. (Like Atlanta did with Collins, and like Phoenix will do with Ayton) When you give these guys max contracts when it isn't clear they are max players, you are literally bidding against yourselves. The only reason to agree to a deal earlier than you have to is if it will save you money in the long run. You trade the guaranteed security now in exchange for something less than a max deal.


A 2nd year player putting up 25/7 on 66% TS% when he was made the 2nd option doesn't show superstar potential? I guess you missed the last half of last season, when MPJ was finally given the green light?


Potential? Sure. But is potential enough to gamble $200 million when there are no other suitors? No, you wait and make him prove it. ESPECIALLY with his injury history.

And this year he is averaging 10 point, 6.6 rebound with a PER of 8.5.

This contract is potentially a franchise-crippling disaster for Denver.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#145 » by psimanic1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:50 pm

Effigy wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Effigy wrote:Sad news for him, but he is set financially.

The Nuggets are absolute morons for giving him that contract though. In my opinion if a guy isn't a surefire superstar (Trey, Luka) you don't max them out early, you make them take more of a bargain deal or wait until the fourth year when they are restricted. (Like Atlanta did with Collins, and like Phoenix will do with Ayton) When you give these guys max contracts when it isn't clear they are max players, you are literally bidding against yourselves. The only reason to agree to a deal earlier than you have to is if it will save you money in the long run. You trade the guaranteed security now in exchange for something less than a max deal.


A 2nd year player putting up 25/7 on 66% TS% when he was made the 2nd option doesn't show superstar potential? I guess you missed the last half of last season, when MPJ was finally given the green light?


Potential? Sure. But is potential enough to gamble $200 million when there are no other suitors? No, you wait and make him prove it. ESPECIALLY with his injury history.

And this year he is averaging 10 point, 6.6 rebound with a PER of 8.5.

This contract is potentially a franchise-crippling disaster for Denver.

It's ~140mil, nowhere near 200..He gets 200 if he is all star/all nba this season, and that's not gonna happen
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#146 » by CptCrunch » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:20 pm

psimanic1 wrote:
Effigy wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
A 2nd year player putting up 25/7 on 66% TS% when he was made the 2nd option doesn't show superstar potential? I guess you missed the last half of last season, when MPJ was finally given the green light?


Potential? Sure. But is potential enough to gamble $200 million when there are no other suitors? No, you wait and make him prove it. ESPECIALLY with his injury history.

And this year he is averaging 10 point, 6.6 rebound with a PER of 8.5.

This contract is potentially a franchise-crippling disaster for Denver.

It's ~140mil, nowhere near 200..He gets 200 if he is all star/all nba this season, and that's not gonna happen


145.3m guaranteed. Makes very little difference for the cap since only the 5th year is partially guaranteed (12m of the 39.7m). He gets a designated max extension for 4 years. If he tries to rehab his away back instead of medically retiring, the Nuggets books are booked for the next 4 years. Jokic (who will be extended with a supermax), Jamal and MPJ are gonna take up 90m (next 2 years) to 110m (years 3 and 4 when Jokic gets his supermax) of the cap space each year.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#147 » by psimanic1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:31 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
psimanic1 wrote:
Effigy wrote:
Potential? Sure. But is potential enough to gamble $200 million when there are no other suitors? No, you wait and make him prove it. ESPECIALLY with his injury history.

And this year he is averaging 10 point, 6.6 rebound with a PER of 8.5.

This contract is potentially a franchise-crippling disaster for Denver.

It's ~140mil, nowhere near 200..He gets 200 if he is all star/all nba this season, and that's not gonna happen


145.3m guaranteed. Makes very little difference for the cap since only the 5th year is partially guaranteed (12m of the 39.7m). He gets a designated max extension for 4 years. If he tries to rehab his away back instead of medically retiring, the Nuggets books are booked for the next 4 years. Jokic (who will be extended with a supermax), Jamal and MPJ are gonna take up 90m (next 2 years) to 110m (years 3 and 4 when Jokic gets his supermax) of the cap space each year.

Even without MPJ we don't have cap space, so either him comming back or we have to get someone from draft or Nnaji getting better so he can play starting PF..
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#148 » by Kurtz » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:47 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Effigy wrote:Sad news for him, but he is set financially.

The Nuggets are absolute morons for giving him that contract though. In my opinion if a guy isn't a surefire superstar (Trey, Luka) you don't max them out early, you make them take more of a bargain deal or wait until the fourth year when they are restricted. (Like Atlanta did with Collins, and like Phoenix will do with Ayton) When you give these guys max contracts when it isn't clear they are max players, you are literally bidding against yourselves. The only reason to agree to a deal earlier than you have to is if it will save you money in the long run. You trade the guaranteed security now in exchange for something less than a max deal.


A 2nd year player putting up 25/7 on 66% TS% when he was made the 2nd option doesn't show superstar potential? I guess you missed the last half of last season, when MPJ was finally given the green light?


I watched a lot of Denver games last year as I had a financial stake in Joker winning the MVP. MPJ did not impress me much - sure he's got a beautiful shooting stroke, but he also has tunnel vision, has a very...relaxed attitude towards defense, and seems disengaged much of the time in general. That's a dangerous player to max out and thus remove $$ as a motivator.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#149 » by Effigy » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:42 pm

psimanic1 wrote:
Effigy wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
A 2nd year player putting up 25/7 on 66% TS% when he was made the 2nd option doesn't show superstar potential? I guess you missed the last half of last season, when MPJ was finally given the green light?


Potential? Sure. But is potential enough to gamble $200 million when there are no other suitors? No, you wait and make him prove it. ESPECIALLY with his injury history.

And this year he is averaging 10 point, 6.6 rebound with a PER of 8.5.

This contract is potentially a franchise-crippling disaster for Denver.

It's ~140mil, nowhere near 200..He gets 200 if he is all star/all nba this season, and that's not gonna happen


According to this article it's $172 million at a minimum. That's pretty close to $200 million. https://www.denverpost.com/2021/11/22/michael-porter-jr-nikola-jokic-denver-nuggets-injury-contract/
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#150 » by ShootersShoot » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 am

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
ShootersShoot wrote:
Lala870 wrote:Honestly I agree with the earlier poster saying denver should just tank the season, bench jokic, see if they can clear MPJ off the books somehow, and get a high draft pick. See what the offseason looks like and get murray back

They should just let guys like Bones/Bol Bol play the season out.

Even if MPJ was healthy, they're not beating either LA team, PHX, GS, or Utah in the PO


They could pull a warriors and tank. Jokic, MPJ, Murray, and a top 5 pick for next season wow.


Because Kuminga and Wiseman are dominating so hard for GSW :roll:


Considering the whole nuggets core is 26 or under, it would be well within their timeline to develop a high lotto pick. Based on their payroll it would also be beneficial to have a potentially blue chip prospect on a rookie contract. Perhaps I should have said moving forward instead of next season. Would that make more sense?
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#151 » by Roddy B for 3 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:59 am

ShootersShoot wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
ShootersShoot wrote:
They could pull a warriors and tank. Jokic, MPJ, Murray, and a top 5 pick for next season wow.


Because Kuminga and Wiseman are dominating so hard for GSW :roll:


Considering the whole nuggets core is 26 or under, it would be well within their timeline to develop a high lotto pick. Based on their payroll it would also be beneficial to have a potentially blue chip prospect on a rookie contract. Perhaps I should have said moving forward instead of next season. Would that make more sense?


I do think that makes more sense, but I don't think it is qide to throw away a year of Jokic prime to tank and its about 50/50 if the player will be anu good and even if he is good it will take years before he is ready to help win at the highest level.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#152 » by Lala870 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:58 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
ShootersShoot wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
Because Kuminga and Wiseman are dominating so hard for GSW :roll:


Considering the whole nuggets core is 26 or under, it would be well within their timeline to develop a high lotto pick. Based on their payroll it would also be beneficial to have a potentially blue chip prospect on a rookie contract. Perhaps I should have said moving forward instead of next season. Would that make more sense?


I do think that makes more sense, but I don't think it is qide to throw away a year of Jokic prime to tank and its about 50/50 if the player will be anu good and even if he is good it will take years before he is ready to help win at the highest level.


Nuggets are not getting past anyone in the playoffs. Outside of jokic... they are arguably the worst team in the league.

Who cares if Jokic is in his prime if he has to play 50 minutes a game and put up 40/10/10 at worst to win?

Playing this season to win for Jokic is dumb... esp when Murray is still sidelined
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#153 » by Roddy B for 3 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:25 pm

Lala870 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
ShootersShoot wrote:
Considering the whole nuggets core is 26 or under, it would be well within their timeline to develop a high lotto pick. Based on their payroll it would also be beneficial to have a potentially blue chip prospect on a rookie contract. Perhaps I should have said moving forward instead of next season. Would that make more sense?


I do think that makes more sense, but I don't think it is qide to throw away a year of Jokic prime to tank and its about 50/50 if the player will be anu good and even if he is good it will take years before he is ready to help win at the highest level.


Nuggets are not getting past anyone in the playoffs. Outside of jokic... they are arguably the worst team in the league.

Who cares if Jokic is in his prime if he has to play 50 minutes a game and put up 40/10/10 at worst to win?

Playing this season to win for Jokic is dumb... esp when Murray is still sidelined


And if the draft pick isnt anu good next year you can tank again. And if the draft pick isnt goodafter that,just tank again. Etc.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#154 » by ShootersShoot » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:51 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
Lala870 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
I do think that makes more sense, but I don't think it is qide to throw away a year of Jokic prime to tank and its about 50/50 if the player will be anu good and even if he is good it will take years before he is ready to help win at the highest level.


Nuggets are not getting past anyone in the playoffs. Outside of jokic... they are arguably the worst team in the league.

Who cares if Jokic is in his prime if he has to play 50 minutes a game and put up 40/10/10 at worst to win?

Playing this season to win for Jokic is dumb... esp when Murray is still sidelined


And if the draft pick isnt anu good next year you can tank again. And if the draft pick isnt goodafter that,just tank again. Etc.


Well if they are healthy then theyd be contending for a top seed in the west with or without the pick. They arent reliant on a top pick to be good. But the main issue is that they arent healthy this year.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#155 » by Johnny Bball » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:45 pm

Lala870 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
ShootersShoot wrote:
Considering the whole nuggets core is 26 or under, it would be well within their timeline to develop a high lotto pick. Based on their payroll it would also be beneficial to have a potentially blue chip prospect on a rookie contract. Perhaps I should have said moving forward instead of next season. Would that make more sense?


I do think that makes more sense, but I don't think it is qide to throw away a year of Jokic prime to tank and its about 50/50 if the player will be anu good and even if he is good it will take years before he is ready to help win at the highest level.


Nuggets are not getting past anyone in the playoffs. Outside of jokic... they are arguably the worst team in the league.

Who cares if Jokic is in his prime if he has to play 50 minutes a game and put up 40/10/10 at worst to win?

Playing this season to win for Jokic is dumb... esp when Murray is still sidelined


They already have 9 wins. Its too late.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#156 » by ShootersShoot » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:37 am

Johnny Bball wrote:
Lala870 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
I do think that makes more sense, but I don't think it is qide to throw away a year of Jokic prime to tank and its about 50/50 if the player will be anu good and even if he is good it will take years before he is ready to help win at the highest level.


Nuggets are not getting past anyone in the playoffs. Outside of jokic... they are arguably the worst team in the league.

Who cares if Jokic is in his prime if he has to play 50 minutes a game and put up 40/10/10 at worst to win?

Playing this season to win for Jokic is dumb... esp when Murray is still sidelined


They already have 9 wins. Its too late.


Lol you might be right..they are 5 or more games up over 5 teams, and currently tied for 9th worst record. They would just get out tanked.
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Re: MPJ has a nerve issue in his back that could jeopardize his season 

Post#157 » by Catchall » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:41 am

Nuggets are pretty much in the same situation that the Warriors were in two seasons ago. There's no reason to rush Jokic back, just as there was no reason to rush Steph Curry back from a hand injury.

The Warriors were rewarded with the #2 pick in the draft. Unfortunately, they made the wrong pick. If they had Lamelo Ball, they'd be pretty damn well off.
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