RealGM

PlatinumState wrote:

God Squad wrote:

PlatinumState wrote:6 legit roy contenders right now

Which 6? I could only could 4 that are legit contenders right now. I just want to add that so far aside from a few guys, this draft class is looking very promising. Particularly at the top, you can see the flashes of potential from the top picks.

Cade, Jalen, Giddey, Mobley, Wagner and Barnes

Wagner is good. Jalen showed flashes. But are they better than Duarte and Sengun?

I think it is
1 tier
Barnes
Mobley
Cade

2tier
Duarte
GIddey
Sengun

3tier
Franz
Davion
Jalen Green
Bones

I'd replace Jalen Green with Banton and put Franz in tier 2. I'd also put Cade in tier 2 since he's been injured.

holdenwait wrote:16 mins for Sengun again.. and the guy scores 13 points including 2 3-pointers, 4 reb, 2 assists, 1 steal... Silas is a joke

i mean they won the game. What do you want Silas to do?

PlatinumState wrote:

God Squad wrote:

PlatinumState wrote:6 legit roy contenders right now

Which 6? I could only could 4 that are legit contenders right now. I just want to add that so far aside from a few guys, this draft class is looking very promising. Particularly at the top, you can see the flashes of potential from the top picks.

Cade, Jalen, Giddey, Mobley, Wagner and Barnes

Jalen Green? he's definitely not been on the level of the other 5.

I would rank them

Tier 1 - Mobley, Cade, Barnes
Tier 2 - Giddey, Wagner, Duarte
Tier 3 - Green, Sengun, Mitchell
Tier 4 - Suggs, Banton (homer pick but actually playing a fairly big role on a 0.500 team)

1. Mobley
2. Barnes
3. Wagner
4. Duarte
5. Cunningham
6. Sengun
7. Giddey
8. Mitchell

Sengun would be competing with the top 2 if he got minutes. Mobley is at a point where any more missed games will start to gradually downgrade him for me.

Statlanta wrote:I'd replace Jalen Green with Banton and put Franz in tier 2. I'd also put Cade in tier 2 since he's been injured.

This is height of stupidity replacing Green with Banton. Have you even compared their stats? There is no competition.

yoyoboy wrote:1. Mobley
2. Barnes
3. Wagner
4. Duarte
5. Cunningham
6. Sengun
7. Giddey
8. Mitchell

Sengun would be competing with the top 2 if he got minutes. Mobley is at a point where any more missed games will start to gradually downgrade him for me.

Giddey’s been much better than Sengun, come on now. I’d put him over Duarte too.

srhcan wrote:

Statlanta wrote:I'd replace Jalen Green with Banton and put Franz in tier 2. I'd also put Cade in tier 2 since he's been injured.

This is height of stupidity replacing Green with Banton. Have you even compared their stats? There is no competition.

I agree Banton shouldn’t be ranked really highly because of a lack of usage and minutes, but it’s not for lack of impact. I understand why box score watchers find themselves drawn to Green (even though he looks awful stat-wise too) but Banton has been a far more impactful player.

Suggs gets a lot of hate but Green has been so bad. He’s literally not doing well at even one facet of basketball. Terrible defender, terrible playmaker, shooting has been awful, offensive game is limited due to his physical weakness. Banton is averaging 5ppg on 3.8 attempts. If you gave him Jalen’s 12 shots per game and the green light to just keep chucking, he’d probably be averaging 14 ppg too.

Like I said, Banton’s usage and mpg disqualifies him from being placed in upper echelon of rookies. But Green is pure trash right now, he shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath as guys like Cade, Mobley, Barnes, Giddey, Duarte, Wagner.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

srhcan wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:

Tripod wrote:Barnes went 17/9/3 tonight

He was good too

Giddey isn't even close to Barnes and that's not even me being a homer here. Giddey's TS% is .452 while being a horrible defender lol. Playmaking is legit though.

Not true. Giddey is on way up while Barnes is going down. Check the last 5 games to get idea how tables have turned. Barnes's calling card was his defense but his defense has slipped down a lot, his man is either blowing past him or he just forget his man; I think playing huge minutes so early has taken its toll. Also since Siakam comes back, Barnes is not getting the ball much from Fred; once OG comes back then Barnes will get even less touches.

The touches part certainly could be true.

But as of now, Barnes still is scoring 4 more pts per game and more rebounds.

Safe to say both teams are quite happy with who they picked.

Tripod wrote:

srhcan wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:
Giddey isn't even close to Barnes and that's not even me being a homer here. Giddey's TS% is .452 while being a horrible defender lol. Playmaking is legit though.

Not true. Giddey is on way up while Barnes is going down. Check the last 5 games to get idea how tables have turned. Barnes's calling card was his defense but his defense has slipped down a lot, his man is either blowing past him or he just forget his man; I think playing huge minutes so early has taken its toll. Also since Siakam comes back, Barnes is not getting the ball much from Fred; once OG comes back then Barnes will get even less touches.

The touches part certainly could be true.

But as of now, Barnes still is scoring 4 more pts per game and more rebounds.

Safe to say both teams are quite happy with who they picked.

Nah, Barnes is better right now for sure and it's not even debatable. Now I'm not saying this is how it's going to be years from now or even a month from now.

Giddey is a premier playmaker and is disruptive on defense. Barnes is a slightly better rebounder. Giddey projects to be a better shooter over time. It’s close. And yeah Giddey is trending up.

Tor_Raps wrote:

Tripod wrote:

srhcan wrote:Not true. Giddey is on way up while Barnes is going down. Check the last 5 games to get idea how tables have turned. Barnes's calling card was his defense but his defense has slipped down a lot, his man is either blowing past him or he just forget his man; I think playing huge minutes so early has taken its toll. Also since Siakam comes back, Barnes is not getting the ball much from Fred; once OG comes back then Barnes will get even less touches.

The touches part certainly could be true.

But as of now, Barnes still is scoring 4 more pts per game and more rebounds.

Safe to say both teams are quite happy with who they picked.

Nah, Barnes is better right now for sure and it's not even debatable. Now I'm not saying this is how it's going to be years from now or even a month from now.

I don't know how anyone can possibly compare Giddey to Barnes at this point. It's a nonsensical comparison. Barnes is miles ahead of Giddey in the ROTY race.

He's undoubtedly #1 right now. Was neck and neck with Mobley until Mobley got hurt. Cade has been rising fast up the ranks though.

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Giddey is a premier playmaker and is disruptive on defense. Barnes is a slightly better rebounder. Giddey projects to be a better shooter over time. It’s close. And yeah Giddey is trending up.

"Projects" to be a better shooter is irrelevant though in the context of this year's ROY race. Right now, Giddey is a 10.8 ppg, 46.5% TS scorer while Barnes is a 14.8 ppg, 52.7% TS scorer. And when Giddey is on the court, opponents score 14.2 points per 100 possessions more. For comparison, Bazley is at +10.9 points per 100 more for opponents when he's on the court and then no one else on the team is even close. So clearly, the evidence is there that Giddey has been pretty bad defensively, despite being "disruptive." He's also spotting a -3.7 Defensive RAPTOR. Barnes hasn't been that great of a defender, but he's certainly been better than Giddey.

Now, by the end of the season things could change, because there's a lot of time left. But just right now, I don't see any reason to put Giddey close to Barnes unless you're solely looking at the pts/reb/ast slashline, which largely has to do with opportunities, rather than taking into account efficiency and impact. And actually even just looking at those three stats, Barnes' total of the three is still higher. Per 100 possessions, they're even rebounders at 12.0. But Giddey's team rebounds much better when he's off the court (53.2% TRB off vs 48.1% TRB on) whereas Scottie's is slightly better (51.5% on vs 51.1% off), so it begs the question how much of the rebounding falls under gimme rebounds. Delving further, Giddey is averaging 2.3 contested boards a game while Scottie is at 3.2, and Barnes is averaging 56% more offensive rebounds.

So Barnes has been a clearly better scorer, a better rebounder, and a better defender (even though he's currently below average) while Giddey has been the better playmaker. He has ground to make up still before it's actually close imo.

Even though he's struggling shooting, some legit defensive prowess being shown so far by Suggs as a rookie

LoveMyRaps wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:

Tripod wrote:The touches part certainly could be true.

But as of now, Barnes still is scoring 4 more pts per game and more rebounds.

Safe to say both teams are quite happy with who they picked.

Nah, Barnes is better right now for sure and it's not even debatable. Now I'm not saying this is how it's going to be years from now or even a month from now.

I don't know how anyone can possibly compare Giddey to Barnes at this point. It's a nonsensical comparison. Barnes is miles ahead of Giddey in the ROTY race.

He's undoubtedly #1 right now. Was neck and neck with Mobley until Mobley got hurt. Cade has been rising fast up the ranks though.

Barnes is 2nd behind Mobley imo. He's missed 2 games of his own while Mobley is at 4 games missed right now. I don't think those extra missed games are enough of an issue to ignore how much more impactful Mobley has been on the court than frankly every other rookie this year including Barnes. The Cavs were 9-5 before Mobley got hurt during the Boston game and are now 9-10. He's boasting a +9.1 on-off including the team's defense being 10.7 points per 100 better with Mobley on. 12th in the entire league in Defensive RAPTOR. -8.19 SRS and 114.4 DRTG last season for the Cavs vs 0.79 SRS for the Cavs this year and a 102.6 DRTG when Mobley is on the court. From 25th in the league on defense last year to a figure with Mobley on this year that would rank 2nd in the NBA.

Giddey is taller and projects to be more of a natural PG

As a raptors fan, I think Barnes is better but won't dismiss that giddey could be better eventually

Tor_Raps wrote:

Tripod wrote:

srhcan wrote:wow. I think Giddey has passed Barnes now.

Barnes went 17/9/3 tonight

He was good too

Giddey isn't even close to Barnes and that's not even me being a homer here. Giddey's TS% is .452 while being a horrible defender lol. Playmaking is legit though.

So horrible he's what, 2nd for rookies for steals, 3rd in blocks and like 3rd in boards and 2nd in oreb's?

Or are you saying he's a terrible defender because he looks like a goofy white kid? He's a tough baller and putting out more defensive numbers than almost anyone but Mobley.

D. Mitchell had some huge plays on both ends wednesday night, especially when he wasn't being called for breathing on Lillard. He gave em HELL

Mobley back Saturday according to shams.

Jadoogar wrote:

holdenwait wrote:16 mins for Sengun again.. and the guy scores 13 points including 2 3-pointers, 4 reb, 2 assists, 1 steal... Silas is a joke

i mean they won the game. What do you want Silas to do?

and they lost the 15 before that? it's pretty obvious what I want him to do.. give Sengun 25+- mins every night at least to accelerate his growth, asides from the matches where he finds himself in foul trouble maybe.