2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3)

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Which three rookies impress you the most? (vote for up to 3)

Cade Cunningham
49
12%
Jalen Green
2
0%
Evan Mobley
115
28%
Scottie Barnes
109
27%
Jalen Suggs
6
1%
Josh Giddey
47
12%
Franz Wagner
49
12%
Chris Duarte
7
2%
Alperen Sengun
15
4%
Other
6
1%
 
Total votes: 405

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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#61 » by OrlMagic05 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:52 pm

reanimator wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
While I am one of the biggest Suggs haters at the moment, I really dont understand how Green and Cade get a pass for playing awful so far, but Suggs gets bashed so bad that he falls out of the top 10? The 3 of them have all had good games, with the majority of their games being very bad.

Cade- 34%FG 24%3pt 13ppg 5ast 6rebs 31mpg
Green- 37%FG 27%3pt 14ppg 2ast 3reb 32mpg
Suggs- 32%FG 25%3pt 12ppg 3ast 3reb 27mpg

These three have all played bad. If Sugg falls out of top 10 how can the other two remain in top 3?


Fans are always looking for flashes, those games where a young player demonstrates his potential even if he can't repeat it. I'm not sure Suggs has put together one complete game (box score wise) so far, and that's likely why people are down on him.

Not to mention, but Suggs as a PG prospect is expected to do more than Green as a SG prospect ... but if we take things like defense and +/- in to account there's a strong case to put Suggs over Green.


This but I will say Green isn't playing with a real PG. Cade also has strung together more good games than Suggs without a co creator like Cole Anthony to ease the burden and less shooting on the roster.


Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#62 » by srhcan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:15 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.

Suggs's calling card was PG. Thats how he was advertised. In the draft the consensus was he will be taken by Raptors to be their future foundational PG as their current PG Lowry is leaving. You cannot change his definition just 1 month into season. He will be compared with other PGs.
* He is at #4 among top 5 in assists (behind Giddey, Cade and Mitchell and just above Barnes).
* He has worst A/TO ratio among top 5 in assists.
* He has worst True Shooting %age among top 5 in assists.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#63 » by Blacksheep25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:20 pm

QingJames wrote:
Blacksheep25 wrote:I think Mobley’s stock is going up while being out. The other rookies in the conversation are really struggling, and his team is visibly missing him. They’re playing hard, but have just came up short a few games.

He’s the only rookie who is a plus player when he’s been on the court. Hopefully he gets back fully healthy quickly. He’s still played 3 more games than Cade and only one less than Barnes.

I didn’t realize how well Giddey has been playing. It’s super early, but him and Barnes are a close 2 and 3 and Giddey really seems to be figuring it out and on the rise. He really looks to be a nice player. I hadn’t seen him much, so I watched a lot of highlights today.

Does everything well besides shoot the 3 yet. None of the rookies have really shot 3 well thought except Duarte who is over 5 years older than Josh.

I have to admit I thought he was a reach at 6, and at just 19 and a 6’8 guard, I think I’d take him fourth at worst in a redraft tomorrow. No where do they overrate offense more than ROTY, so idk if he’ll get the attention he deserves, but he should be top 3 right now.

The others in the conversation have had a way more negative impact when on the court.

Who are you kicking out of the top 4 in the redraft? Green?



Yeah, clearly this is all too early, but I see him as a volume scorer. I’m sure he’ll be a much better one than he presently is, probably pretty good. but I like the guys who can do a little of everything. I expect Giddey will be able to shoot the 3 consistently eventually. He looks like a kid who might be a 16/9/8 guy next year. Those guys just impact winning so much. They don’t stop the ball and just make one side of the court so much better, and at his size, I expect he should be a decent defender and at least trouble other Sg’s.

In ways this class is typical as most rookies are negative players, but this one is better as far as his negative. Quite a few guys are only slightly negative. And the things we worried about, like Barnes scoring or Giddey just being way raw as he was 18, it’s like they’re in their second year. You knew Mobley would be a very good defender, but not this good. I thought he’d struggle to score. He still will on certain nights, but he’s taking 3s and shooting free throws well.

Cade has shown glimpses. For him, it’s just he’s shooing poorly. Wagner has been good. Has had a few cold games of late, but he’s been very good. I saw a lot of him last year I’m college. He’s almost as effective at the pro level as he was in some of his late season games already. Just a really nice class and I expect Green to be good, but I don’t know if he’ll have the all around game those other guys do.

I’m often wrong, so I won’t be shocked. It’s possible after a few years of having Sexton on my team, even when he puts up 24 on really efficient shooting, I’m questioning how much he helps? He’d help as a sixth man and we miss his scoring, he’d be a great sixth man, but you don’t draft sixth men second overall like Green. Green has more size, so I’m not pegging him as that, just that volume scorer type.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#64 » by reanimator » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:25 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
reanimator wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Fans are always looking for flashes, those games where a young player demonstrates his potential even if he can't repeat it. I'm not sure Suggs has put together one complete game (box score wise) so far, and that's likely why people are down on him.

Not to mention, but Suggs as a PG prospect is expected to do more than Green as a SG prospect ... but if we take things like defense and +/- in to account there's a strong case to put Suggs over Green.


This but I will say Green isn't playing with a real PG. Cade also has strung together more good games than Suggs without a co creator like Cole Anthony to ease the burden and less shooting on the roster.


Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.


I'll take Cole over Killian Hayes or Corey Joseph. I'l take bigs like Bamba/WCJ over any healthy Detroit big. Didn't say Cole was perfect but the situations are different.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#65 » by Stickmann » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:26 pm

cade came in as the most nba ready scorer and he looks god awful on all fronts there. Can't shoot, can't finish off the dribble, can't get to the line. He's solid otherwise but if his shot doesn't translate i'd be a little worried.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#66 » by Blacksheep25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:31 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
srhcan wrote:
QingJames wrote:Who are you kicking out of the top 4 in the redraft? Green?

If the real Green finally shows up then Barnes will be the one out of the top 4 in the redraft: #1 Cade #2 Mobley #3 Green #4 Giddy #5 Barnes while Suggs will be out of top 10


While I am one of the biggest Suggs haters at the moment, I really dont understand how Green and Cade get a pass for playing awful so far, but Suggs gets bashed so bad that he falls out of the top 10? The 3 of them have all had good games, with the majority of their games being very bad.

Cade- 34%FG 24%3pt 13ppg 5ast 6rebs 31mpg
Green- 37%FG 27%3pt 14ppg 2ast 3reb 32mpg
Suggs- 32%FG 25%3pt 12ppg 3ast 3reb 27mpg

These three have all played bad. If Sugg falls out of top 10 how can the other two remain in top 3?


Yeah I think I mentioned that in my last long winded post. Been on vacation and boring the site with long posts, but for as bad as Suggs has been, the data isn’t a lot better. I think it’s that we haven’t seen that two games where he looks like he’s arrived like most rookies before they fall back to earth the next night. At least he hadn’t as of a few games ago when I looked. A couple 25/7/5 nights go a long way for rookies and their narrative.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#67 » by OrlMagic05 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:45 pm

srhcan wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.

Suggs's calling card was PG. Thats how he was advertised. In the draft the consensus was he will be taken by Raptors to be their future foundational PG as their current PG Lowry is leaving. You cannot change his definition just 1 month into season. He will be compared with other PGs.
* He is at #4 among top 5 in assists (behind Giddey, Cade and Mitchell and just above Barnes).
* He has worst A/TO ratio among top 5 in assists.
* He has worst True Shooting %age among top 5 in assists.


He will NEVER be the fulltime PG for the Magic, so YES you can change his position considering he will be their SG. Fultz will be the starting PG when he gets back which will most likely push Cole to the bench as a 6th man, which leaves Suggs as the starting SG.

Please tell me why he should be designated to the PG spot considering that WILL NOT be his position moving forward?
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#68 » by BigGargamel » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:46 pm

Mobley is an absolute stud. The Cavs finally got themselves a superstar.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#69 » by BigGargamel » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:47 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
srhcan wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.

Suggs's calling card was PG. Thats how he was advertised. In the draft the consensus was he will be taken by Raptors to be their future foundational PG as their current PG Lowry is leaving. You cannot change his definition just 1 month into season. He will be compared with other PGs.
* He is at #4 among top 5 in assists (behind Giddey, Cade and Mitchell and just above Barnes).
* He has worst A/TO ratio among top 5 in assists.
* He has worst True Shooting %age among top 5 in assists.


He will NEVER be the fulltime PG for the Magic, so YES you can change his position considering he will be their SG. Fultz will be the starting PG when he gets back which will most likely push Cole to the bench as a 6th man, which leaves Suggs as the starting SG.

Please tell me why he should be designated to the PG spot considering that WILL NOT be his position moving forward?


Orlando resident here. Magic fans still counting on Fultz for anything? The guy is not great and a huge injury risk. I hope the front office isn't counting on him for anything anymore.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#70 » by OrlMagic05 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:49 pm

BigGargamel wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
srhcan wrote:Suggs's calling card was PG. Thats how he was advertised. In the draft the consensus was he will be taken by Raptors to be their future foundational PG as their current PG Lowry is leaving. You cannot change his definition just 1 month into season. He will be compared with other PGs.
* He is at #4 among top 5 in assists (behind Giddey, Cade and Mitchell and just above Barnes).
* He has worst A/TO ratio among top 5 in assists.
* He has worst True Shooting %age among top 5 in assists.


He will NEVER be the fulltime PG for the Magic, so YES you can change his position considering he will be their SG. Fultz will be the starting PG when he gets back which will most likely push Cole to the bench as a 6th man, which leaves Suggs as the starting SG.

Please tell me why he should be designated to the PG spot considering that WILL NOT be his position moving forward?


Orlando resident here. Magic fans still counting on Fultz for anything? The guy is not great and a huge injury risk. I hope the front office isn't counting on him for anything anymore.


Typical Orlando resident. Bandwagon fan. Huge injury risk? He tore his ACL and played all 82 games the year before.

Also regarding Suggs position, check every sports site. They all have him listed as a SG.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#71 » by OrlMagic05 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:52 pm

reanimator wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
reanimator wrote:
This but I will say Green isn't playing with a real PG. Cade also has strung together more good games than Suggs without a co creator like Cole Anthony to ease the burden and less shooting on the roster.


Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.


I'll take Cole over Killian Hayes or Corey Joseph. I'l take bigs like Bamba/WCJ over any healthy Detroit big. Didn't say Cole was perfect but the situations are different.


You would hate Cole Anthony with Cade. Cole thinks he is Allen Iverson and when his shot is falling its great, but when its not he keeps chucking.. Not a PG you want playing with your rookies.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#72 » by Statlanta » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:52 pm

Suggs is the worst rookie by TPA he plays way too much for his production. I’d have low minute guys like Blanton and Hyland over Suggs atm.
Pachinko_ wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Serious question, what's the purpose of this thread?

Exactly the same as every other thread: talk hoops instead of working.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#73 » by MotownMadness » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:59 pm

Everyone needs more time, let the season play out and even see how they come back next year. It takes a minute for some guys too put it all together.

This game to game basis isn't really any sort of concrete proof on a teenagers career
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#74 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:25 pm

reanimator wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
While I am one of the biggest Suggs haters at the moment, I really dont understand how Green and Cade get a pass for playing awful so far, but Suggs gets bashed so bad that he falls out of the top 10? The 3 of them have all had good games, with the majority of their games being very bad.

Cade- 34%FG 24%3pt 13ppg 5ast 6rebs 31mpg
Green- 37%FG 27%3pt 14ppg 2ast 3reb 32mpg
Suggs- 32%FG 25%3pt 12ppg 3ast 3reb 27mpg

These three have all played bad. If Sugg falls out of top 10 how can the other two remain in top 3?


Fans are always looking for flashes, those games where a young player demonstrates his potential even if he can't repeat it. I'm not sure Suggs has put together one complete game (box score wise) so far, and that's likely why people are down on him.

Not to mention, but Suggs as a PG prospect is expected to do more than Green as a SG prospect ... but if we take things like defense and +/- in to account there's a strong case to put Suggs over Green.


This but I will say Green isn't playing with a real PG. Cade also has strung together more good games than Suggs without a co creator like Cole Anthony to ease the burden and less shooting on the roster.


Agreed, but we can't make Houston play John Wall.

I mean it's great to see young rooks playing well, as fans we feel a lot better about the pick; but they all still have plenty of time (literally years) - and the ups & downs & adjustments are all part of the process.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#75 » by srhcan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:30 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
srhcan wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.

Suggs's calling card was PG. Thats how he was advertised. In the draft the consensus was he will be taken by Raptors to be their future foundational PG as their current PG Lowry is leaving. You cannot change his definition just 1 month into season. He will be compared with other PGs.
* He is at #4 among top 5 in assists (behind Giddey, Cade and Mitchell and just above Barnes).
* He has worst A/TO ratio among top 5 in assists.
* He has worst True Shooting %age among top 5 in assists.


He will NEVER be the fulltime PG for the Magic, so YES you can change his position considering he will be their SG. Fultz will be the starting PG when he gets back which will most likely push Cole to the bench as a 6th man, which leaves Suggs as the starting SG.

Please tell me why he should be designated to the PG spot considering that WILL NOT be his position moving forward?

This is your thinking that Suggs will not be PG moving forward. But Orlando drafted Suggs as a PG long-term. Before draft there was a big hole at PG spot as Orlando figured out that Fultz cannot be starting level PG in this league just like 76ers figured it out before. Thats why Orlando was super happy when Raptors did not draft Suggs. So the plan is still there that PG position is Suggs's to lose.

Cole will stay as SG in starting rotation. I dont think Orlando has anyone better than Cole for SG spot.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#76 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:33 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
BigGargamel wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
He will NEVER be the fulltime PG for the Magic, so YES you can change his position considering he will be their SG. Fultz will be the starting PG when he gets back which will most likely push Cole to the bench as a 6th man, which leaves Suggs as the starting SG.

Please tell me why he should be designated to the PG spot considering that WILL NOT be his position moving forward?


Orlando resident here. Magic fans still counting on Fultz for anything? The guy is not great and a huge injury risk. I hope the front office isn't counting on him for anything anymore.


Typical Orlando resident. Bandwagon fan. Huge injury risk? He tore his ACL and played all 82 games the year before.

Also regarding Suggs position, check every sports site. They all have him listed as a SG.


Looks like a mix of SG, PG, and just guard to me. How Orlando is using him and/or plans to use him, I'll defer to you on that.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#77 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:38 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
reanimator wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Fans are always looking for flashes, those games where a young player demonstrates his potential even if he can't repeat it. I'm not sure Suggs has put together one complete game (box score wise) so far, and that's likely why people are down on him.

Not to mention, but Suggs as a PG prospect is expected to do more than Green as a SG prospect ... but if we take things like defense and +/- in to account there's a strong case to put Suggs over Green.


This but I will say Green isn't playing with a real PG. Cade also has strung together more good games than Suggs without a co creator like Cole Anthony to ease the burden and less shooting on the roster.


Suggs isnt a PG, he is a SG. This is how I know people only check the box score. Calling Cole Anthony a creator is laughable! Cole is a scoring guard which hurts Suggs more than anything. Cole tries to get Cole involved and everyone else is an after thought. Suggs has also put a few good games together, Raptors , Brooklyn and has put up really good halves. I think playing with a true PG like Fultz will help Suggs.


Technically, he's an NBA prospect ... he still needs to prove he deserves a spot in the league at any position. If you feel confident in writing him off as a point-guard already, well, that's pretty damning I'd say for a player nbadraft.net compared to Jason Kidd and DeAaron Fox.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#78 » by srhcan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:41 am

I have noticed that on Raptors team lately Fred VanVleet do not pass to Barnes much even when Barnes is open. :lol: Barnes has lost confidence of Fred VanVleet.
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2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#79 » by Time for Change » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:53 am

srhcan wrote:I have noticed that on Raptors team lately Fred VanVleet do not pass to Barnes much even when Barnes is open. :lol: Barnes has lost confidence of Fred VanVleet.

FVV is playing a bit of hero ball and not passing much to anyone. 3 of his 4 assists so far tonight are to Barnes.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3) 

Post#80 » by Angryfatboy » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:34 am

19pts/8ast/7reb for Giddey tonight vs the jazz
Miami Heat Baf: where tanking happens

PG:Kemba walker /J Giddey
SG: Eric Bledsoe / R Neto
SF:Luke Kennard /A iguodala
PF: Xavier Tillman /J MAc
C: James wiseman /D Howard



Trade Block: Kemba walker, Luke kennard, Dwight Howard, wiseman + more

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