John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control

Moderators: jamaalstar21, Harry Garris, Dirk, ken6199, infinite11285, Domejandro, bwgood77, bisme37, zimpy27, KingDavid

JujitsuFlip
Pro Prospect
Posts: 848
And1: 673
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#41 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:35 am

mademan wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
bbalnation wrote:
Clearly hes not fine with it, hes complaining about it on social media. It's not like he was given many options? If he complained about it, especially with the Ben Simmons saga going on, it wouldn't look so great. People would tell him to take a buyout if he wanted to play, which is absurd.

My speculation is that John has gone to the Rockets and asked to play. Im not sure from what point. They've rejected his attempt to play basketball: fulfill his contractual obligations.

My speculation is based off the tweet... hes saying he wants to play. If he can't be traded (which hes accepted), and he can't be bought out for the amount he want (which hes accepted), then he wants to play the sport he loves and showcase his talent (whether to increase his value or prove the haters wrong: there are so many incentives for him to play right now versus sitting on the bench).

You can call me speculative. But hes expressed his frustration and displeasure. Thats how I read the situation, with the facts that are in front of us right now. When John leaves Houston, whether via trade or contract expiration/buyout, well learn more if he wants to share.
He very easily could've changed his mind but initially he was fine with sitting out.

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/09/14/the-rockets-have-reportedly-agreed-to-sit-john-wall-until-they-find-him-a-new-team/

"John Wall and the Rockets front office have reportedly agreed that the 5x All-Star will not again suit up for the franchise".


I mean, the report could also just be wrong. On the one hand, you have reported news and on the other you have Wall speaking (tweeting) directly. At the end of the day, Wall is not ok with this right now, and thats what matters. The Rockets have a player on their roster who is objectively better than the guys playing in front of him and they're depriving him of playing basketball. Thats not cool


He's being paid $40+ million to do nothing, I don't feel bad for him. Doubly he agreed to do nothing, wasn't without his consent, so again, don't feel bad for him.

All he has to do is give up money and he can play within 48 hours of that buyout clearing.
User avatar
LarsV8
General Manager
Posts: 7,515
And1: 2,505
Joined: Dec 13, 2009
       

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#42 » by LarsV8 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:42 am

John Wall could be playing in Miami later this week.

He chose money.

He may not like his choices, but he has them.
Image
mademan
RealGM
Posts: 23,172
And1: 21,727
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#43 » by mademan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:49 am

JujitsuFlip wrote:
mademan wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:He very easily could've changed his mind but initially he was fine with sitting out.

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/09/14/the-rockets-have-reportedly-agreed-to-sit-john-wall-until-they-find-him-a-new-team/

"John Wall and the Rockets front office have reportedly agreed that the 5x All-Star will not again suit up for the franchise".


I mean, the report could also just be wrong. On the one hand, you have reported news and on the other you have Wall speaking (tweeting) directly. At the end of the day, Wall is not ok with this right now, and thats what matters. The Rockets have a player on their roster who is objectively better than the guys playing in front of him and they're depriving him of playing basketball. Thats not cool


He's being paid $40+ million to do nothing, I don't feel bad for him. Doubly he agreed to do nothing, wasn't without his consent, so again, don't feel bad for him.

All he has to do is give up money and he can play within 48 hours of that buyout clearing.


And all Philly has to do is trade Ben Simmons to be cleared of that headache. Wall's decision to agree/not agree to a buy out is irrelevant. The Rockets are willingly sitting a player thats better than the guys playing ahead of him. It's a dik move. If Walls wants to play, it's BS that the rockets arent letting him.
JujitsuFlip
Pro Prospect
Posts: 848
And1: 673
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#44 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:56 am

mademan wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
mademan wrote:
I mean, the report could also just be wrong. On the one hand, you have reported news and on the other you have Wall speaking (tweeting) directly. At the end of the day, Wall is not ok with this right now, and thats what matters. The Rockets have a player on their roster who is objectively better than the guys playing in front of him and they're depriving him of playing basketball. Thats not cool


He's being paid $40+ million to do nothing, I don't feel bad for him. Doubly he agreed to do nothing, wasn't without his consent, so again, don't feel bad for him.

All he has to do is give up money and he can play within 48 hours of that buyout clearing.

Wall's decision to agree/not agree to a buy out is irrelevant. The Rockets are willingly sitting a player thats better than the guys playing ahead of him. If Walls wants to play, the rockets arent letting him.

It is 100% relevant. The irrelevant part is if he is better than those on the team who didn't come to an agreement with the franchise to never play again.

If Wall wants to play, forfeit his money and play somewhere else in 48 hours. If Wall wants his money, he can sit on the bench in street clothes. Those are the options he has and agreed to.
Chuck Everett
Head Coach
Posts: 6,198
And1: 4,466
Joined: May 28, 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:
   

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#45 » by Chuck Everett » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:10 am

Here is the issue. Wall and Rich Paul thought a trade might be out there, but there isn't one. They are also aren't getting bought out at full freight for two years, so what are you left with? Sitting at home for two years and collecting checks? Now that they see they have no leverage over Fertitta, Wall wants to play. The fact that an NBA journalist just randomly brings up Wall not playing like the Rockets weren't terrible with him last year is funny. There's nothing random about it at all. It's just no one cares about Wall anymore because he's not a star player.
bbalnation
Pro Prospect
Posts: 794
And1: 431
Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#46 » by bbalnation » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:47 am

Cubbies2120 wrote:
bbalnation wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
Yet the Spurs got fined for resting healthy players...as have other teams...so, what's the deal here?


Context. The reason they benched players.

I actually provided it so we could avoid this back and forth, but meh.


I'm not attacking your point - I'm saying it's interesting that the Spurs rested players, they were fined and people supported it because "People pay to see the stars, not the role players". Well, for the Rockets have one widely recognized superstar (Wall) and are resting him when he's clearly able to play. The narrative has changed.

To the Spurs, a team that was at the time competing for a championship, a regular season game was meaningless.


I gots to chilllll, sorry mate.

Interesting point. I didn't consider that narrative change at all.
LAL1947
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,382
And1: 730
Joined: Dec 28, 2018

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#47 » by LAL1947 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:10 am

I think teams should have the option to buy out a player's contract for 50% of its total remaining value, without needing a specific reason to do the buy-out and without any money counting towards the salary cap, if:

1) The player's yearly salary is over 10% of the salary cap or $10m, whichever is greater.
2) The team uses the money to sign another player(s) within a stipulated time period (no more than 12 months).
3) These buy-outs can only occur during the off-season.

The player is free to sign with another team immediately, for whatever they will pay him... and still gets millions from the buy-out, at least $5m (50% of $10m), so he won't starve to death and his kids can eat too. :rolleyes:

John Wall is owed $91.6m over the next 2 seasons, so 50% = $45.8m. This is money that could be going to other players instead of being given to John Wall to sit on the bench. The CBA is structured to benefit the 1-5% at the top, it's weird that other players don't try to get more out of it in whatever ways they can.
therealozzykhan
Sophomore
Posts: 191
And1: 310
Joined: Dec 15, 2014
Location: I can't tell you. I'm an investigator.
   

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#48 » by therealozzykhan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:44 am

Wall and unprotected first round pick for Simmons!
JujitsuFlip
Pro Prospect
Posts: 848
And1: 673
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#49 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:58 am

LAL1947 wrote:I think teams should have the option to buy out a player's contract for 50% of its total remaining value, without needing a specific reason to do the buy-out and without the money counting towards the salary cap, if:

1) The player's yearly salary is over 10% of the salary cap or $10m, whichever is greater.
2) The team uses the money to sign another player(s) within a stipulated time period (no more than 12 months).
3) These buy-outs can only occur during the off-season.

The player is free to sign with another team immediately, for whatever they will pay him... and still gets millions from the buy-out, at least $5m (50% of $10m), so he won't starve to death and his kids can eat too. :rolleyes:

John Wall is owed $91.6m over the next 2 seasons, so 50% = $45.8m. This is money that could be going to other players instead of being given to John Wall to sit on the bench. The CBA is structured to benefit the 1-5% at the top, it's weird that other players don't try to get more out of it in whatever ways they can.
An additional stipulation to this should be that any option or non guaranteed years are automatically voided. I never understood dudes want buyouts then somehow get their option year too. If they want out of their contract fine, getting the option year makes no sense.
LAL1947
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,382
And1: 730
Joined: Dec 28, 2018

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#50 » by LAL1947 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:00 am

JujitsuFlip wrote:An additional stipulation to this should be that any option or non guaranteed years are automatically voided. I never understood dudes want buyouts then somehow get their option year too. If they want out of their contract fine, getting the option year makes no sense.

Good point :thumbsup:
User avatar
MrBigShot
RealGM
Posts: 13,685
And1: 10,594
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
 

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#51 » by MrBigShot » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:01 am

LAL1947 wrote:I think teams should have the option to buy out a player's contract for 50% of its total remaining value, without needing a specific reason to do the buy-out and without the money counting towards the salary cap, if:

1) The player's yearly salary is over 10% of the salary cap or $10m, whichever is greater.
2) The team uses the money to sign another player(s) within a stipulated time period (no more than 12 months).
3) These buy-outs can only occur during the off-season.

The player is free to sign with another team immediately, for whatever they will pay him... and still gets millions from the buy-out, at least $5m (50% of $10m), so he won't starve to death and his kids can eat too. :rolleyes:

John Wall is owed $91.6m over the next 2 seasons, so 50% = $45.8m. This is money that could be going to other players instead of being given to John Wall to sit on the bench. The CBA is structured to benefit the 1-5% at the top, it's weird that other players don't try to get more out of it in whatever ways they can.


This would essentially make contracts half guaranteed. The players would never agree to that.

Anyway, its kind of an awkward situation but I don't think the Rockets owe it to him to play him. They are finishing bottom 5 this season with or without him and he's not in the long term plans at all. If he really, really wants to play he can take a buyout at a significant discount but I don't think he'd be willing to do that.
"They say you miss 100% of the shots you take" - Mike James
User avatar
Capn'O
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,524
And1: 63,228
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Let's Stop and Get A Hot Dog
 

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#52 » by Capn'O » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:02 am

This is a real mess if he's healthy and wants to play. If he starts squawking a bit more the Rox could face some heat.
BAF Clippers
PG: Conley, Melton
SG: SGA, Trent
SF: PG13, Craig
PF: DFS, JM Green
C: Stifle Tower, Holmes

RIP Mags :beer:
"Greatness wasn't worth anything if you couldn't share it."-Kobe
therealozzykhan
Sophomore
Posts: 191
And1: 310
Joined: Dec 15, 2014
Location: I can't tell you. I'm an investigator.
   

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#53 » by therealozzykhan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:05 am

Capn'O wrote:This is a real mess if he's healthy and wants to play. If he starts squawking a bit more the Rox could face some heat.


A team can't really be forced to play a guy. He's no longer a superstar, theres lots of scrubs who don't get any burn. I don't think the Rockets care, they'd rather develop their young guys. Playing Wall doesn't really give them anything unless he turns into an all-star again which I doubt.
nfmos
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,851
And1: 2,552
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
       

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#54 » by nfmos » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:32 am

JujitsuFlip wrote:
mademan wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:He very easily could've changed his mind but initially he was fine with sitting out.

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/09/14/the-rockets-have-reportedly-agreed-to-sit-john-wall-until-they-find-him-a-new-team/

"John Wall and the Rockets front office have reportedly agreed that the 5x All-Star will not again suit up for the franchise".


I mean, the report could also just be wrong. On the one hand, you have reported news and on the other you have Wall speaking (tweeting) directly. At the end of the day, Wall is not ok with this right now, and thats what matters. The Rockets have a player on their roster who is objectively better than the guys playing in front of him and they're depriving him of playing basketball. Thats not cool


He's being paid $40+ million to do nothing, I don't feel bad for him. Doubly he agreed to do nothing, wasn't without his consent, so again, don't feel bad for him.

All he has to do is give up money and he can play within 48 hours of that buyout clearing.


But thats a bs move by that organization and im sure other players and free agents will remember that in the future. If they are telling him if you really want to play, take a cut-rate buyout and we will release you to go play, or otherwise be quiet and get your money, then they are basically waiting him out to see if he folds and gives up money. Are they even trying to find a trade partner, or just waiting for him to cave?

If an organization starts punishing players for their previously agreed to contracts by letting them rot on the bench unless they take a cut, how many premier players are going to want to play for that owner?
User avatar
floppymoose
Senior Mod - Warriors
Senior Mod - Warriors
Posts: 52,738
And1: 11,573
Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Location: There is no public health without the public.

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#55 » by floppymoose » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:37 am

BoatsNZones wrote:A lot of politicking in the current NBA due to a lot of money in the current NBA. I predict a potentially very long lockout during the next CBA after the 2024 season. Both sides have a lot to figure out.

There will not be a lockout. The owners are printing money and have no reason to rock the boat. There could be a strike, though.
Karate Diop
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,999
And1: 5,413
Joined: May 19, 2017
 

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#56 » by Karate Diop » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:44 am

Wall has played the good solider so far but it'll be interesting to see what happens if he starts complaining... Already nobody wants to play in Houston (extremely cheap owner, very little talent, potential decade long rebuild), and this situation won't help (even though the Rockets are perfectly within their rights to not play Wall)...
User avatar
Capn'O
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,524
And1: 63,228
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Let's Stop and Get A Hot Dog
 

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#57 » by Capn'O » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:56 am

therealozzykhan wrote:
Capn'O wrote:This is a real mess if he's healthy and wants to play. If he starts squawking a bit more the Rox could face some heat.


A team can't really be forced to play a guy. He's no longer a superstar, theres lots of scrubs who don't get any burn. I don't think the Rockets care, they'd rather develop their young guys. Playing Wall doesn't really give them anything unless he turns into an all-star again which I doubt.


He put up 20 ppg last year so he's not exactly a scrub.

I get that they're going a different direction but the blatant tanking sucks.
BAF Clippers
PG: Conley, Melton
SG: SGA, Trent
SF: PG13, Craig
PF: DFS, JM Green
C: Stifle Tower, Holmes

RIP Mags :beer:
"Greatness wasn't worth anything if you couldn't share it."-Kobe
User avatar
robillionaire
RealGM
Posts: 23,356
And1: 28,172
Joined: Jul 12, 2015
Location: Asheville
     

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#58 » by robillionaire » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:57 am

The rockets should be fined by the league and potentially lose their draft pick. We have to miss out on seeing him play when he’s fully healthy and able and getting paid 40+ million because they want to intentionally lose games. It’s bad for the product
JujitsuFlip
Pro Prospect
Posts: 848
And1: 673
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#59 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:00 am

nfmos wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
mademan wrote:
I mean, the report could also just be wrong. On the one hand, you have reported news and on the other you have Wall speaking (tweeting) directly. At the end of the day, Wall is not ok with this right now, and thats what matters. The Rockets have a player on their roster who is objectively better than the guys playing in front of him and they're depriving him of playing basketball. Thats not cool


He's being paid $40+ million to do nothing, I don't feel bad for him. Doubly he agreed to do nothing, wasn't without his consent, so again, don't feel bad for him.

All he has to do is give up money and he can play within 48 hours of that buyout clearing.


But thats a bs move by that organization and im sure other players and free agents will remember that in the future. If they are telling him if you really want to play, take a cut-rate buyout and we will release you to go play, or otherwise be quiet and get your money, then they are basically waiting him out to see if he folds and gives up money. Are they even trying to find a trade partner, or just waiting for him to cave?

If an organization starts punishing players for their previously agreed to contracts by letting them rot on the bench unless they take a cut, how many premier players are going to want to play for that owner?

How is that a bad move? They consulted with Wall and he agreed to this setup of being paid, not playing, still being allowed to use the team facilities to stay in shape, and they will field trade calls.

After not even 2 full months since training camp Wall is now having a change of heart. Which he is allowed to do but I don't fault the Rockets for adhering to the agreement that was in place. Wall didn't even wait until December 15th when more players are eligible to be traded.

The dude isn't being punished. He's getting paid $40 million to do nothing like he agreed to.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 79,147
And1: 46,959
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: John Wall On Him Sitting Out Games: Says He’s Getting Punished For Something He Can’t Control 

Post#60 » by bwgood77 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:03 am

Even if he plays they would have one of the 3 worst records in the NBA at the end of the year and have equal odds even if 3rd worst.

They should play him. He could show something and maybe a team trades for him.

Return to The General Board