Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation?

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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#41 » by Mickey8 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:17 pm

I am not the biggest fan of him, but no, the guy is at the end of his career , he did enough in his career to cement his coaching legacy, he's all set.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#42 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:21 pm

The Spurs simply lack talent.

I'd even say they overachieved the last couple of seasons.

If anything, Pop has done a pretty good job of developing non top-10 prospects the past few years.

Pop's legacy is safe.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#43 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:26 pm

Snakebites wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:As a coach? No way.

Until the last year (and this year as they fully embrace the rebuild) I thought he was getting more out of that group of post-Kawhi veterans than most coaches would.

As an exec? I think a better case could be made that his legacy should be harmed, but it probably still won't. I thought at the time (and the last few years bares it out) that he made a mistake not going full rebuild the moment Kawhi was out the door.

Context: We had LMA, a double double machine, solid core group that knew the system, Manu still there, we were coming off a 60+ win season then followed by a 200+ games missed due to injury in 17/18 and still a winning record, and a couple of seasons away from at least tying the playoffs record, which we did. For a small market team, that continuity and that record are hugely important. Besides, you don't throw it all away because one guy decides to not only leave but do it in a way he did. We would have taken steps back either way regardless of when we rebuilt, but it would be on our terms and our timeline. At least there is continuity from one group to the next, and records that can never be taken away achieved along the way.

Kawhi wasn't just "one guy" though.

I understand all the rationalizations. They weren't going to contend again without him- there was a zero percent chance of that happening. Their best case scenario was exactly what happened- a couple more playoff seasons followed by a difficult decline. Had they instead traded Kawhi for picks and/or younger players they could have jump started the rebuild process and started it with a head start in terms of assets.

I guess your mileage varies on whether those couple of years as a low seed playoff team were worth prolonging the rebuild. I personally don't think it would have been- as a fan of a team that tried the "retooling" thing too, albeit with less success.

Well it's context not rationalization, unless you consider being in the record books unimportant, which PATFO clearly didn't, and it was still not an easy achievement. Twenty-two years when you're in year twenty with a team that most recently won 60+ games makes no sense to suddenly tear apart, regardless of who the player is. There's no guarantee about what picks prospects get you, no guarantee that they'll pan out, no guarantee there would have been high picks (teams that were offering were all competitive so a bevy of them would have been well out of the lottery). We're essentially talking about a two-year span difference with more picks towards the end of the 1st round and no record. No thanks. Anyway, it's a moot point and sort of off topic, but I just wanted to flesh out some details that I thought could help paint a more precise picture.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#44 » by ShootersShoot » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:37 am

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Nick Nurse has been a better coach then Popavich over the past few years. Even this year with less talent Raptors have a better record. I think Nurse is really underrated and Popavich has been overrated


Would like to see a roster comparison from you because I disagree with this take.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#45 » by CraftylikeaFox » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:03 am

Thinking Pop's legacy is in danger in anyway is stupid. Anyone that thinks Pop's status as a top 3 coach of all time isn't completely set in stone is a total moron. There is nothing here to discuss.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#46 » by Inspektor1312 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:47 am

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Nick Nurse has been a better coach then Popavich over the past few years. Even this year with less talent Raptors have a better record. I think Nurse is really underrated and Popavich has been overrated


The fact that you can't even spell Pop's last name automatically disqualifies you from this stupid discussion.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#47 » by andyhop » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:30 am

Its just another reminder that Kirby Smart is right on the value of coaching

"“If you don’t recruit, there’s no coach out there that can out-coach recruiting,” Smart said. “I don’t care who you are. The best coach to ever play the game better be a good recruiter because no coaching is going to out-coach players."
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#48 » by bbalnation » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:40 am

We've let MJs Wizards chapter go, haven't we? And Dream with the Raptors. And Kobes last couple injury riddled years. Etc.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#49 » by G35 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:52 am

Popovich's legacy was set a long time ago.

However, his ranking among the best of all time is in question.

Imo, coaching relies on how well you can adapt to different players and get them to buy into your system. He did that at an insane level with Tim Duncan.

However, he was not able to do that once Duncan retired. Things started to chip away and the culture has slowly eroded.

Compare that to Phil Jackson who was able to get the best out of MJ/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe.

Pat Riley was successful in LA, NY, and Miami

A good comparison is Bill Belichik who has been able to rebuild the Patriots in a year with a rookie QB starting.

I have always wondered how Pop's style would work with another star and he hasn't shown that he is good at keeping stars happy. Aldridge complained...we all know what happened with Kawhi......
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#50 » by makubesu » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:13 am

It will. Just like with Kobe, you have a lot of fans who will grow up seeing only the declines version. And if there isn’t enough YouTube highlight mixes, they’ll never care about the real deal. I predict a lot of idiots complaining that pop “could never handle the modern game” over the next decade.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#51 » by Lalouie » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:13 am

no
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#52 » by Pennebaker » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:29 am

Pop is 72 and maybe it's ageist but I don't think anyone is going to hold these seasons against him. There's probably nothing he can do from here on out that will damage the legacy that he built.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#53 » by slicedbread2 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:06 pm

No. And it shouldn't be for Gregg Popovich. This man and what he's meant to the Spurs and the NBA in general is what Tom Landry meant not only to the Dallas Cowboys, but the NFL as well.

He and the Spurs organization developed a lot of successful schemes and utilized the opportunities of proper player development and scouting for overlooked players that wouldn't have gotten a shot elsewhere. Yes Tim Duncan was the centrepiece for 19 years and dammit he was truly something else as the ultimate low maintenance guy. Couldn't ask for more than that.

Yes it sucked that Leonard left b/c if that didn't happen who knows but you can only control what you can control. The Spurs are gonna be in that transition period where there will be some long painful seasons just like Landry's Cowboys during the late 80's but hopefully people will realize how much of a once in a lifetime opportunity moment watching the Pop era Spurs truly are. 22 straight playoff appearances and 5 titles for a team that's a small market like San Antonio is truly remarkable.

Once he passes Don Nelson whenever that happens(22 wins away) that will probably be time to call it a career if he chooses to do so.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#54 » by LascelleL » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Pop is a Top 3 GOAT Coach. His legacy is untouchable.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#55 » by Fadeaway_Jumper » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:42 pm

ShootersShoot wrote:
Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Nick Nurse has been a better coach then Popavich over the past few years. Even this year with less talent Raptors have a better record. I think Nurse is really underrated and Popavich has been overrated


Would like to see a roster comparison from you because I disagree with this take.


You’re probably right on the roster comparison tbh.

But I still think it proves the point that he is more roster dependant for his results then people want to let on
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#56 » by Cavsfansince84 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:15 pm

Popovich's legacy was more than set in 2014. If anything, what they did in the few years after that only added to it. A coach can't just rub his hands together and create 55 win teams out of nothing.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#57 » by dc » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:34 pm

Remember that in Duncan's final season when he was a 7 ppg role player, the Spurs won a franchise record 67 games that year and they made a the WCF the following year when Kawhi went out with the ankle injury in Game 1. So clearly Pop was more than just about riding Duncan's coattails.

They were competitive for the longest time w/o ever getting another high lotto pick after Duncan way back in 1997. Obviously, the Duncan pick set the table for them for a very long time, but one guy by himself (even as great as Duncan) isn't going to keep a franchise that good for that long.

Pop also gets credit for not only drafting/developing Ginobili/Parker, but also extending their careers (along with Duncan's) way longer than people would've ever predicted.
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