Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation?

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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#21 » by Rodwilliams » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:06 pm

No man, what kind of question is this? His legacy is secure regardless. This thread is almost as awful as Harry Garris take that wind up making my signature.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#22 » by CIN-C-STAR » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:13 pm

I actually think he's doing a good job with what he has -- a young team devoid of high-level talent.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#23 » by DoctorX » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:17 pm

Coaches are always overrated but I think the NBA is the sport where coaches are overrated the most. Pop is overrated. He lucked out in getting a top 5 all-time great player in my eyes in Tim Duncan. He never really had to deal with the psychological aspects all coaches have to deal with when coaching stars since Duncan was low maintenance so by default the other player would fall in line. He rode Duncan's coattails for nearly 20 years and then rode Kawhi for a brief minute.

Once Kawhi left that's when it all went apart. I know some Pop lovers will scream "Well he got them into the playoffs for those 2 years without Kawhi." I would say Lamarcus Aldridge playing at his peak from '17-'19 got them into the playoffs those 2 years. Once Lamarcus fell off that's when the Spurs started to become a lottery team.

Even during the '19-'20 season with Lamarcus rapidly declining the Spurs still had a chance to get into the playoffs but Pop cost them 7-10 games by playing one of the worst lineups in the league by playing Mills-Belinelli-Forbes. That was a terrible line whenever Pop put that group on the floor the opposing team went on ridiculous runs. He didn't stop playing that awful line up until Forbes got injured and as a result the Spurs started to win some close games.

Pop's success coach is as legit as a trust fund baby's success. If it wasn't for Duncan he would be coaching some Division 3 school right now.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#24 » by Chinook » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:09 pm

It shouldn't hurt his legacy, but it should quiet the people who believed the Spurs were a less talented team that Pop made great. In reality, they always had a bunch of really good players, and other coaches could've made it work. Pop is the best modern NBA example of a coach-exec, as he should get a lot of the credit for bringing in talented guys he knew how to use. You can argue that as he's taken steps back from that part of the org and handed more responsibility to Buford/Wright that the Spurs have begun to lose their edge in talent acquisition.

You're seeing too many examples of bringing in guys on considerable contracts only for them to fight to be in the rotation or high picks somehow not being good enough to play for a rebuilding team. That's not okay, and it does reflect poorly on Pop that he can still be the (de-facto at least, since the org ladder is complicated) head of the club and still have such huge disconnects with what he wants versus what his team goes out to acquire. He's still a good coach, and watching his team play, you can see good things he's doing. But he's doing a lot of bad things too. He's been doing those bad things for years, and many Spurs fans have been talking about them only to be shouted down as spoiled by other fans. This year, they finally don't have the talent to even pretend to play well.

As I said, it shouldn't take away from Pop's accomplishments, but hopefully the last couple of years have given people a more realistic view of how good he's been.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#25 » by Capn'O » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:29 pm

Maybe as an executive because the Spurs held on a little too long these past two or three seasons instead of go full rebuild. As a coach though? Not one bit.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#26 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:32 pm

Imagine writing something embarrassing and finishing it with Mills-Forbes-Beli line-up 'costing games' in 19/20, a line up used in eleven games that season which averaged 1.7 minutes per game lmao cringe.

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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#27 » by ropjhk » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:05 pm

Pop's last few years in the league won't hurt him when comparing him to the other coaching GOATs. Making the playoffs in 2018 and 2019 was an accomplishment. He did about as well as can be expected the last couple of seasons considering the roster he has to work with.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#28 » by NZB2323 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:10 pm

ceiling raiser wrote:
Rich Michmond wrote:No, many successful coaches had mediocre stints at the end of their careers (Holzman, Motta, Adelman, Karl) and nobody seems to care.

I don't disagree that Pop will be viewed as a successful coach. I just wonder if this hurts him in comparison to Auerbach, Riley, Jackson, and will to some extent vs Kerr. Those are his peers in terms of achievement all-time.


No. What is the worst roster Auerbach/Riley/Jackson/Kerr have ever coached?

What coach would be successful with the Spurs roster?
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#29 » by Tracymcgoaty » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:11 pm

What exactly do people want him to achieve with this roster???

Argument could be made Duncan and Pop both needed each other. It's never just one factor, and all people need to watch when it comes to how important Pop was is to go on youtube and watch Tim Duncan talk about him. Or any other player for that matter.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#30 » by dc » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:16 pm

C'mon, dude. That's like asking if Kobe's last few years are going to hurt his reputation.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#31 » by Edrees » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:17 pm

His teams have played without a top20 player since kawhi left. Not much you can do there. He's still a Top5 Coach all time.

However, I do hope people think twice about the idea that he's a better coach than Phil Jackson because Phil coached better players. Looks like Pop is just as much a prisoner of having good players to coach for.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#32 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:40 pm

Most of these so-called elite coaches are nothing once they no longer have a massive talent advantage. Pop is the poster child for this. If he never gets Duncan he’s likely a tenured professor at some liberal community college instead of laughably being considered one of the GOATS. It SHOULD affect him but the sycophants in the media and casuals won’t allow it to
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#33 » by Snakebites » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:50 pm

As a coach? No way.

Until the last year (and this year as they fully embrace the rebuild) I thought he was getting more out of that group of post-Kawhi veterans than most coaches would.

As an exec? I think a better case could be made that his legacy should be harmed, but it probably still won't. I thought at the time (and the last few years bares it out) that he made a mistake not going full rebuild the moment Kawhi was out the door.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#34 » by Slim Charlez » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:56 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:Imagine writing something embarrassing and finishing it with Mills-Forbes-Beli line-up 'costing games' in 19/20, a line up used in eleven games that season which averaged 1.7 minutes per game lmao cringe.

And no to the question, given the appreciation of contexts.


The guy just hates Pop for some reason.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#35 » by Slim Charlez » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:59 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:Most of these so-called elite coaches are nothing once they no longer have a massive talent advantage. Pop is the poster child for this. If he never gets Duncan he’s likely a tenured professor at some liberal community college instead of laughably being considered one of the GOATS. It SHOULD affect him but the sycophants in the media and casuals won’t allow it to


He was the Spurs GM before he became the HC and was assistant to Larry Brown and Don Nelson before that. So yeah safe to say he'd be working in the NBA in some capacity. Another laughably bad post from you per usual.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#36 » by macNcheese3 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:00 pm

Look at the rosters he had the last few seasons. He did a fine job with what he has been dealt.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#37 » by Bornstellar » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:Most of these so-called elite coaches are nothing once they no longer have a massive talent advantage. Pop is the poster child for this. If he never gets Duncan he’s likely a tenured professor at some liberal community college instead of laughably being considered one of the GOATS. It SHOULD affect him but the sycophants in the media and casuals won’t allow it to

This is a silly argument considering it applies to players as well. Like was Kobe nothing when he was missing the playoffs in his prime because he didn't have a massive talent advantage? That's kinda how the NBA works. People wanna pretend like coaching scrubs matters but look at all the revered coaches on most people's top lists. Riley, Jackson, Auerbach. None of these guys got extra love for coaching a team with lacking talent to the playoffs :lol:
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#38 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:07 pm

Snakebites wrote:As a coach? No way.

Until the last year (and this year as they fully embrace the rebuild) I thought he was getting more out of that group of post-Kawhi veterans than most coaches would.

As an exec? I think a better case could be made that his legacy should be harmed, but it probably still won't. I thought at the time (and the last few years bares it out) that he made a mistake not going full rebuild the moment Kawhi was out the door.

Context: We had LMA, a double double machine, solid core group that knew the system, Manu still there, we were coming off a 60+ win season then followed by a 200+ games missed due to injury in 17/18 and still a winning record, and a couple of seasons away from at least tying the playoffs record, which we did. For a small market team, that continuity and that record are hugely important. Besides, you don't throw it all away because one guy decides to not only leave but do it in a way he did. We would have taken steps back either way regardless of when we rebuilt, but it would be on our terms and our timeline. At least there is continuity from one group to the next, and records that can never be taken away achieved along the way.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#39 » by Snakebites » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:12 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:As a coach? No way.

Until the last year (and this year as they fully embrace the rebuild) I thought he was getting more out of that group of post-Kawhi veterans than most coaches would.

As an exec? I think a better case could be made that his legacy should be harmed, but it probably still won't. I thought at the time (and the last few years bares it out) that he made a mistake not going full rebuild the moment Kawhi was out the door.

Context: We had LMA, a double double machine, solid core group that knew the system, Manu still there, we were coming off a 60+ win season then followed by a 200+ games missed due to injury in 17/18 and still a winning record, and a couple of seasons away from at least tying the playoffs record, which we did. For a small market team, that continuity and that record are hugely important. Besides, you don't throw it all away because one guy decides to not only leave but do it in a way he did. We would have taken steps back either way regardless of when we rebuilt, but it would be on our terms and our timeline. At least there is continuity from one group to the next, and records that can never be taken away achieved along the way.

Kawhi wasn't just "one guy" though.

I understand all the rationalizations. They weren't going to contend again without him- there was a zero percent chance of that happening. Their best case scenario was exactly what happened- a couple more playoff seasons followed by a difficult decline. Had they instead traded Kawhi for picks and/or younger players they could have jump started the rebuild process and started it with a head start in terms of assets.

I guess your mileage varies on whether those couple of years as a low seed playoff team were worth prolonging the rebuild. I personally don't think it would have been- as a fan of a team that tried the "retooling" thing too, albeit with less success.
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Re: Are the Spurs last few seasons going to hurt Pop's reputation? 

Post#40 » by levon » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:14 pm

no, but the Spurs' success after Duncan at least opens a sliver to question the extent of Pop's (and maybe the SA org's?) brilliance. that and his team USA stint, which was way closer to not getting a gold medal than Coach K, talent notwithstanding

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