Who Some Good Players Who are Great Athletes, but Can't Use Their Athleticism the way you'd think?

[johanliebert]

Zach Lavine for sure. He should be dunking all over everyone with his hops and skills but seems like he's not strong enough to take any contact.

He can’t palm the ball but anyone who lists lavine doesn’t watch him at all. His athleticism is on full display whenever he touches the ball.

[Alatan]

For being a dunk contest finalist Aaron Gordon is terrible around the rim.

[Hoop Heavy]

Andrew Wiggins is the firts name that comes to my mind he could be a dominant player both ends of the floor with his athleticism

Andrew Wiggins!

Yes, for his time in Minnesota.

But see the development curve now that he's with the Warriors. He's better again this year - confident, efficient and making some plays on D. It is probably about being in a really professional system ... then just playing with Draymond and Steph has to have an impact.

My guess is that he will be that guy you thought he was going to be ... next year or the year after that. He's certainly trending that way.

[Hoop Heavy]

I hate these threads because it always comes down to the fallacy that having the highest vertical means you should be the most dominant. In that case, Darvin Ham should be headed to the hall of fame right?

Athleticism is a multifaced thing. Hand-eye coordination, body control, footwork, quickness, etc. are all part of it. A guy who doesn't jump out of the gym might be able to smoke a guy who jumps really high, not just using skill but skill based on being able to do things with his floor game the jumper cannot.

So - saying a guy is a "great athlete but not using it" misses that jumping is just one part of athleticism for a basketball player.

Sure ... and your skill guy can then play better positional ball - and completely eliminate the "athlete's" advantage and potentially length too. Some guys have it perfected - Draymond, Barkley, Lowry etc. The mind is a huge part of it too.

[Hoop Heavy]

Ibaka.

This dude can dunk from the FT line! He should have been a freak rebounder. Career best of just 8.8rpg and just 3 times above 8rpg. His best per36 rpg is also low at just 11rpg.

Ibaka ruptured his calf in the 2014 playoffs and it was announced he'd miss the rest of the playoffs. Instead Ibaka missed only 2 games before coming back to play through a ruptured calf(?!). It doesn't get talked about much, but Ibaka was not the same player after. After 2014 (age 24), Ibaka's rebound and block percentage fall off a cliff, and he stops attacking the rim (average shot distance moves back by 4 feet). For the next 4 seasons, he's basically a mediocre jump shooter who provides a bit of rim protection. His health clearly improves in 2019 (age 29) as his rebounding and finishing numbers go back up (but he never regains his dpoy-level shotblocking).

I think his years in Orlando were wasted. How long was he there? Three years?

I'm sure being healthy with the Raps was a big part of it. Playing with Lowry was another big part of his offensive boom. Those two were great together. So, Mr. "I'm a NBA champ now, BABY!" got lots of burn and more boards. Funny thing about his shotblocking is that even though his numbers weren't great, I think his rep made lots of people choose not to challenge ... he was offering a "reputational" rim protection sort of for free - which was great.

Mostly, Serge just got his three point shot respectable ... and then he'd pop ... and Lowry would give him this patented backward bounce pass off the dribble ... Serge would be out at the line with time for a sandwich before shooting. He hit a lot of wing threes.

Remember that he was the guy who, with the Championship on the line, made Curry change the trajectory on his last second three - and miss. He saw the play developing and clearly went in a bee line to the perfect spot and challenged the shot ... and it never showed up on a stat sheet. That's not a guy who has great athleticism and fails ... I agree it's an older guy whose lost his elite athleticism and using IQ to still succeed.

[Up-And-Coming]

Malik Monk

I was just about to type "Malik Monk". Malik can jump and run with the best of them but he hasn't learned to use that part of his athleticism to his advantage consistently in his game. So far he displays it in an open-run dunk only once in a blue moon.

[Gusto1903]

Deaaron Fox maybe

[cupcakesnake]

Ibaka.

This dude can dunk from the FT line! He should have been a freak rebounder. Career best of just 8.8rpg and just 3 times above 8rpg. His best per36 rpg is also low at just 11rpg.

Ibaka ruptured his calf in the 2014 playoffs and it was announced he'd miss the rest of the playoffs. Instead Ibaka missed only 2 games before coming back to play through a ruptured calf(?!). It doesn't get talked about much, but Ibaka was not the same player after. After 2014 (age 24), Ibaka's rebound and block percentage fall off a cliff, and he stops attacking the rim (average shot distance moves back by 4 feet). For the next 4 seasons, he's basically a mediocre jump shooter who provides a bit of rim protection. His health clearly improves in 2019 (age 29) as his rebounding and finishing numbers go back up (but he never regains his dpoy-level shotblocking).

I think his years in Orlando were wasted. How long was he there? Three years?

I'm sure being healthy with the Raps was a big part of it. Playing with Lowry was another big part of his offensive boom. Those two were great together. So, Mr. "I'm a NBA champ now, BABY!" got lots of burn and more boards. Funny thing about his shotblocking is that even though his numbers weren't great, I think his rep made lots of people choose not to challenge ... he was offering a "reputational" rim protection sort of for free - which was great.

Mostly, Serge just got his three point shot respectable ... and then he'd pop ... and Lowry would give him this patented backward bounce pass off the dribble ... Serge would be out at the line with time for a sandwich before shooting. He hit a lot of wing threes.

Remember that he was the guy who, with the Championship on the line, made Curry change the trajectory on his last second three - and miss. He saw the play developing and clearly went in a bee line to the perfect spot and challenged the shot ... and it never showed up on a stat sheet. That's not a guy who has great athleticism and fails ... I agree it's an older guy whose lost his elite athleticism and using IQ to still succeed.

Half a season in Orlando. Was traded at the deadline the same year he signed (for T.Ross).

You really see him get some bounce back in 2019, after 1.5 seasons there. In 2017 and 2018, he looks pretty ground bound (though still has his terrific length) and stationary. He'd spend most of his time spotting up at the elbows or uselessly posting up and looking to pass. 2019, you see a much bouncier Serge and his role changes. He's kept moving, rolling to the hoop for dunks and short jumpers. His rebounding %, free throws, efficiency, finishing numbers, all go way up. He almost doubles his dunks (most dunks since his injury). Just a totally different player. He was definitely well utilized by Nurse and paired well with Lowry, but he also was physically a different player that years prior.

You're right about his shot blocking reputation. Serge never became a truly elite defender in terms of his smarts and positioning, but he's got super long arms, decent mobility, and the reputation as one of the best shotblockers in recent memory (from his first 5 years in the league when he led the NBA in blocks twice).

[lambchop]

Malik Monk

I was just about to type "Malik Monk". Malik can jump and run with the best of them but he hasn't learned to use that part of his athleticism to his advantage consistently in his game. So far he displays it in an open-run dunk only once in a blue moon.

Isn't that just a lack of strength How many skinny guards can actually get to the hoop consistently and then finish through contact above the rim? He would either need to get somewhere around malcolm brogdons level strengthwise or have to develop a more deceptive game where he can freeze the defense by always being a passing threat, like Lonzo or LaMelo, which would open up lanes for him.

The only current solution for him would be to be willing to sacrifice his body and put it in awkward landing positions the way Morant does. Ja is obviously more athletic, but if Monk really put his mind to it, he could definitely dunk more often, but he would risk injury.

[HumbleRen]

Fox, Andrew Wiggins, Josh Smith, Aaron Gordan and Bam Adebayo

[thinktank]

wiggins, zach lavine, edwards all wolves.

Not anymore. We got the one guy there you’re wrong about.

[genius-]

terrence ross

[ArtMorte]

This is where "athleticism", "balance" and "quickness" should be distinguished; people call most players with great physique "athletic", but simply being muscular doesn't do much for you in basketball. First of all, you need precise body control (balance) to control your body during drives and jump shots. Often it's not so much your strength but your balance that let's you get a good shot off of contact, for example. If you have good body control, you can get your jumper off real quick, like Steph. You achieve your shooting shape so fast. Nothing to do with the term "athleticism" in the way fans use it, but it's pretty f***ing athletic. Also, being strong doesn't mean you're quick, and that first one or two step quickness is so important. So, yeah, I think a lot of NBA fans use the word "athleticism" too loosely, they just take a look at a ripped guy and declare he's athletic.

[ropjhk]

Hand eye coordination is something that is not always apparent like physical athleticism but it's something that is just as important in sports. Wayne Gretzky wasn't nearly the most athletic but his hand eye coordination is said to be on a superhuman level. Lebron is one of the few athletes who attained an elite level with both his athleticism and his hand eye coordination.

Super athletic players with bad hand eye coordination can't be expected to be amongst the best.

[ropjhk]

This is where "athleticism", "balance" and "quickness" should be distinguished; people call most players with great physique "athletic", but simply being muscular doesn't do much for you in basketball. First of all, you need precise body control (balance) to control your body during drives and jump shots. Often it's not so much your strength but your balance that let's you get a good shot off of contact, for example. If you have good body control, you can get your jumper off real quick, like Steph. You achieve your shooting shape so fast. Nothing to do with the term "athleticism" in the way fans use it, but it's pretty f***ing athletic. Also, being strong doesn't mean you're quick, and that first one or two step quickness is so important. So, yeah, I think a lot of NBA fans use the word "athleticism" too loosely, they just take a look at a ripped guy and declare he's athletic.

Agreed. Balance and agility is a trait that can go underrated. You can potentially be a great track athlete without having great balance and agility.