Steve Kerr is a great coach

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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#21 » by prefontaine » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:18 am

Look - Kerr functions as the CEO of his team. It's his job to build culture and put his people in positions of success. Folks shouldn't be looking at Luke Walton's record as interim as evidence Kerr being bad, but rather as evidence that Kerr built a good enough culture/system that it can sustain an average coach like Luke Walton.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#22 » by prefontaine » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:18 am

Look - Kerr functions as the CEO of his team. It's his job to build culture and put his people in positions of success. Folks shouldn't be looking at Luke Walton's record as interim as evidence Kerr being bad, but rather as evidence that Kerr built a good enough culture/system that it can sustain an average coach like Luke Walton.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#23 » by dk1115 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:43 am

Man, it must have been such an experience playing for Phil Jackson and Greg Poppovich. Two very contrasting styles, but both effective.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#24 » by BostonCouchGM » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:54 am

he's really not. None of them are. You either have the players or you don't. Luke Walton performed as well (maybe better) in Kerr's absence. Kerr is the Popovich of Phil Jacksons.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#25 » by righterwriter » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:59 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
righterwriter wrote:He's a great coach. Giving all the credit to the FO or Curry is no different from giving all the credit to the FO/star player of any great team rather than the coach (Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, etc).


Phil Jackson dealt with massive egos and distractions in multiple situations yet still steered the ship seamlessly.

Kerr had nothing but unselfish teammates, and when KD came in, Curry was willing to defer.

By the way, remind me what was the Warriors record with Luke Walton as head coach instead of Kerr?



Phil Jackson had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.

That is all.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#26 » by prefontaine » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:29 am

righterwriter wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
righterwriter wrote:He's a great coach. Giving all the credit to the FO or Curry is no different from giving all the credit to the FO/star player of any great team rather than the coach (Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, etc).


Phil Jackson dealt with massive egos and distractions in multiple situations yet still steered the ship seamlessly.

Kerr had nothing but unselfish teammates, and when KD came in, Curry was willing to defer.

By the way, remind me what was the Warriors record with Luke Walton as head coach instead of Kerr?



Phil Jackson had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.

That is all.


Both of these comments fall short. The coach is not irrelevant. Culture matters. Tactics matter. Otherwise there would be no coaches in the league and just players playing each other.

Now I agree that a good coach is a necessary but not sufficient component of a championship team. Same as great stars, good role players and a good GM. The Kerr hate needs to stop.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#27 » by righterwriter » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:04 am

prefontaine wrote:
righterwriter wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
Phil Jackson dealt with massive egos and distractions in multiple situations yet still steered the ship seamlessly.

Kerr had nothing but unselfish teammates, and when KD came in, Curry was willing to defer.

By the way, remind me what was the Warriors record with Luke Walton as head coach instead of Kerr?



Phil Jackson had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.

That is all.


Both of these comments fall short. The coach is not irrelevant. Culture matters. Tactics matter. Otherwise there would be no coaches in the league and just players playing each other.

Now I agree that a good coach is a necessary but not sufficient component of a championship team. Same as great stars, good role players and a good GM. The Kerr hate needs to stop.


The thing is, PJax never had to resurrect a team. He may have been a great coach and motivator, but he also coached MJ and Pippen, then Shaq and Kobe. The same thing can be said for Pat Riley who only coached teams with numerous HOFs.

If someone wants to say Kerr isn't great because of the players he had, the same can be said for any of the coaches considered the greatest.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#28 » by Black Jack » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:32 am

Tor_Raps wrote:Id rather just give Curry all the credit here lol


Yes...call it the Tim Duncan Effect.

Having a truly transcendent star makes everyone else get overrated - teammates, coaches, front office.
Rest in peace Kobe & Gianna

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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#29 » by nfmos » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:44 am

Gramercy Riffs wrote:I'm giving as much credit to Kerr as I can. He changed the game. We went from last in the league in assists under MJax to 1st under Kerr in one year and it's been that way ever since. HC in the NBA is like a film director. His job isn't to do everything, it's to gather the best people possible and give them the freedom to contribute to the best of their abilities within the system he plans. The caretaker of the vision. Kerr is the caretaker of the Warriors dynasty.


And the ultimate credit of course is the ownership group, and mostly Joe Lacob. Everyone gave him a bunch of crap when he promised a title when he took over and also booed the hell out of him when we traded Monta, and then he caught a whole bunch of crap when he made the light years comments, but man its amazing to see the culture of the organization he rebuilt. He has displaced really popular figures within our organization and took the heat for it, and basically almost everything has worked out.

He fired Don Nelson, demoted Larry Riley from the GM spot, approved the Monta trade, fired Jackson, didnt renew Jerry West, hired a GM and head coach with little to no experience, made the unpopular move from oakland to sf but got the stadium build with private funding, etc etc And in retrospect all of those were the right moves in the end.

And he's run the organization where all the main decision makers had a say, it wasnt Bob Myers pulling all the strings, or a meddling owner or power hungry coach, its really been neat to see from a management point of view.

His biggest thing from the start was he just continued raising expectations higher than anyone here had before, and got upset when people seemed too comfortable. Like with Jackson, despite the fact we had the greatest playoff success with him in years, he was trying to push Jackson to hire better assistants with more experience and didnt care about the cost. But Jackson was content with surrounding himself with his yes-men who didnt necessarily help the team get better. So with that, in addition to all the drama Jackson spread in an organization trying to be as positive as possible, he got rid of Jackson even though that risked upsetting the players. But he brings in Kerr and tells him to hire the best people, and in Kerrs first year he had help from Alvin Gentry and more importantly Ron Adams, and we ended winning the title and starting our run.

He took a chance on Myers and Kerr also in large part because they are also good people, and look how thats turned out. We now spend whatever it takes. When he took over he promised a title to a fanbase that hadnt seen a title in over 30 years, much to everyone's laughter. Warriors players brag about our culture and organization to other players in the league, he even chartered a separate plane to fly out every single Warriors employee to finals games. He and the other owners paid $450 million for a team that is worth $4.7 billion today. Hes hired back lots of former warriors players to keep the history and legacy going. We try to trade players to agreeable situations to them, and dont try to hold players hostage to their contract situations like some teams have done, i love the fact that the players are treated right, and im sure that gets around the league too.

Yeah im sorry i can go on and on but its just fascinating to me as a case study of how to turn a organization around, and not just a sports team. So yes, i love Kerr, but i believe it all rolls up to Lacob. And honestly Ive been a big fan of his since specifically that night he got booed for the Monta trade. At that time, i really believed it was a great move, you could see Monta was holding Steph back, plus we would get bigger with Klay in the backcourt and Bogut could be the center we always wanted. So there was a article somewhere where he had posted his email, and i sent him a quick email of support, and he actually replied and thanked me.

And then as we were trying to close out Cleveland in 2014-15, i wrote him again as a follow up to the first email and thanked him for everything he has done for the team, and the Bay Area, and he responded again:

Chris, what a fantastic email! I love it. Thank you !

Let's go. Driving to arena now. Cleveland. Go Warriors !

Joe


Yes i know it might be just a employee replying to me, which i hope it wasnt, but to even have that attention to detail if it was, is pretty damn cool.

Sorry for the long rant, but i just needed to point out how great it has been to go from a horrible owner to a great one, and how its possible if the direction and culture is set from the top and trickles down to people they hire and the things they do.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#30 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:19 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Coaching impact cannot be judged effectively based on who is literally the official coach on the floor the way you can do with players. Once you build something that works as a coach, others literally should be able to step in and have much the same success as you so long as they continue to build on the team's established strengths.

Agreed. A great system and culture does not crater from one day to the next just because the one who developed it is physically absent, so we should expect it to continue working – at least for a while – when someone else stands on the sidelines in the interim. This is why all the ‘but look at Luke Walton's record’ talk is just silly and shows that what makes Kerr special, and what maintains a culture, is not properly understood (or not acknowledged due to personal dislike in some cases). He created the environment that allowed others to take the reins on the sidelines for some time and be successful.

One thing I want to add that ties to the culture aspect is Kerr's desire to empower his subordinates. Not only does he want them to provide input and is never shy of handing out credit (and happily takes the blame when something goes wrong), as a good leader should: he takes it one step further. If you look at Kerr's hire of Atkinson during the off-season, Kerr literally went out of his way to tell everyone that they brought Atkinson in to challenge him and his ideas, because Kerr felt a new voice with different ideas was needed. That's part of why I love Kerr the coach: he brings in the best people, even if – and sometimes precisely because – they don't always see things his way. He wants to learn from others. Ironically, refusal to hire the best people instead of just ‘his guys’ played an important part in Mark Jackson's downfall.

Black Jack wrote:Having a truly transcendent star makes everyone else get overrated - teammates, coaches, front office.

Is that why the Warriors immediately won the title in 2015 and went on to become a dynasty after Kerr took over, and why Curry went from All-Star to MVP – all of that in a completely revamped offensive system? I honestly have no idea how anyone following the NBA – and much less a Warriors fan – can look back to the difference between 2014 and 2015 and conclude that Kerr's arrival wasn't actually a very big deal.

Naturally, the NBA is ultimately to a large part about talent. If you don't have it, you won't be successful. Curry's talent and his character, which empowers his teammates, is instrumental to everything the Warriors do. Still, Kerr is an integral part of the dynasty because he knows how to use Curry's talent, and he came in with a vision to develop a certain identity and culture of the team on and off the court. Could he have done it on his own, without help from others? No. Curry – like the owners, the FO, and some other players – had to buy in and advanced the culture in his own way, and most significantly, I'd agree. But could Curry have done it on his own? Absolutely not! And he'd be the first to tell you that.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#31 » by Black Jack » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:30 pm

The-Power wrote:
Black Jack wrote:Having a truly transcendent star makes everyone else get overrated - teammates, coaches, front office.

Is that why the Warriors immediately won the title in 2015 and went on to become a dynasty after Kerr took over, and why Curry went from All-Star to MVP – all of that in a completely revamped offensive system? I honestly have no idea how anyone following the NBA – and much less a Warriors fan – can look back to the difference between 2014 and 2015 and conclude that Kerr's arrival wasn't actually a very big deal.

Naturally, the NBA is ultimately to a large part about talent. If you don't have it, you won't be successful. Curry's talent and his character, which empowers his teammates, is instrumental to everything the Warriors do. Still, Kerr is an integral part of the dynasty because he knows how to use Curry's talent, and he came in with a vision to develop a certain identity and culture of the team on and off the court. Could he have done it on his own, without help from others? No. Curry – like the owners, the FO, and some other players – had to buy in and advanced the culture in his own way, and most significantly, I'd agree. But could Curry have done it on his own? Absolutely not! And he'd be the first to tell you that.


I agree Kerr is very good. He's studied under the best over the years. That said, benching Igoudala, etc. were no brainer moves. Mark Jackson was too pig headed to make obvious adjustments. But make no mistake Curry is the Warriors dynasty's engine.

Pop / Spurs learned the hard way, you can't manufacture elite creme de la creme talent. It's like Jay-Z said, if you made me, then make another one.
Rest in peace Kobe & Gianna

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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#32 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:30 pm

Black Jack wrote:I agree Kerr is very good. He's studied under the best over the years. That said, benching Igoudala, etc. were no brainer moves. Mark Jackson was too pig headed to make obvious adjustments. But make no mistake Curry is the Warriors dynasty's engine.

Pop / Spurs learned the hard way, you can't manufacture elite creme de la creme talent. It's like Jay-Z said, if you made me, then make another one.

It was a very risky move because it was far from clear how this would play out in the locker room – I don't think many coaches would have done it for that reason alone. Also, it was far from the only change Kerr made to turn this team around.

Either way, I'm certainly not challenging the notion that Curry is the engine behind the dynasty (is anyone, besides open haters?). In the NBA, having all-time great players on your team matters most. Still, even these players need great coaches and environments to create dynasties – and Kerr is one of those great coaches that enabled a dynasty.

I think that's all this thread really is about. Kerr can be a great coach and still need someone like Curry to have the ultimate success. That doesn't make him any less great, and it doesn't mean he's overrated because nobody claims that Kerr can win a championship with any team, for obvious reasons.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#33 » by bbalnation » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:04 pm

SpreeS wrote:I would give credit to Curry/Owner/FO/Coach staff/Team.


Whats the owner doing?

Investing hundreds of millions (luxury taxes) in addition to the original 450 million he spent to buy the Warriors, and getting back a **** ton in return: long, medium and short term in financial capital (Warriors are north 4.7 billion). Its a no brainer to pay the luxury taxes in his scenario, in those circumstances, with the amount he started with, and the instantaneous growth the league saw: Curry or not (securing a loan woulda been easy if he struggled with liquidity).
Getting the **** out of the way when it comes to basketball operations.

Imo, hardly more credit worthy than the players, coaching staff and front office: aka the people who are actually doing the labor and work that would differentiate them with the rest of the league.

If anything, I speculate that Joe Lacobs constant public appearances over the years about being ahead into the future and whatnot have been more a hindrance than helpful. I dont imagine it makes trade negotiations with other teams any easier: "Sorry Bob, clearly we're missing something here, gimme a better offer". (I just wanted to say Bob, looool)
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#34 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm

Kerr is a great coach I agree, but he's also made some monumental blunders in his coaching career eg the 2019 Finals, where held his team back and got completely outcoached by Nurse.

But Kerr was ahead of the game (for a time), he empowered Curry and allowed him to be the best version of himself (for a time) and he (and/or his staff) has designed plays that are absolutely genius over the years.

No coach is perfect, even a great one. Kerr is a perfect example of that.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#35 » by antonac » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 pm

There's different types of coaches who are better at different things, you get guys that are better at man managing, tacticians, guys that have a knack for scouting, analytics.

Kerr seems to be a guy that likes to trust his players, he believes if they're happy and enjoying themselves they'll play well and he seems to be right.

Curry to me seems like the really special element that separates the Warriors from the rest but you're not going to be a historically great team with multiple championships with an average coach.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#36 » by Kingsway_fan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:30 pm

coach of the year,so far, imo...
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#37 » by blitz41 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:39 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
prefontaine wrote:He's now taken a team rated to be an underdog/4th or 5th seed to genuine title contenders twice. Yes, he's got Curry, but he's been able to extract amazing value out of players like Poole, GP2, JTA, Wiggins and Looney.


Agree, and seeing others responses I'll add:

I think we make a mistake when we try to split up credit between players and coaches.

To me Kerr is the clear cut COY right now. There's absolutely no denying that his motion offense scheme - that is HIS, he's the one who brought it in and he's the one who stuck with it when many were saying it needed to go away - is a central part of why all these role players are playing with such proactive confidence.

Credit the role players themselves for learning to play so effectively, credit Curry, Green & Iggy for being the player leaders, and credit the front office for the good moves they made...but we should all be tipping our caps to Kerr as well.


Pretty much agree with everything except him as clear cut COY, this year feels a little crowded there.

As for the topic, what i love about him is his ability to get the "buy in" from players. I assume like pop and the trio its an easier job with guys like curry and dray to lead by example, but its still a testament to his leadership.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#38 » by ConSarnit » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:45 pm

antonac wrote:There's different types of coaches who are better at different things, you get guys that are better at man managing, tacticians, guys that have a knack for scouting, analytics.

Kerr seems to be a guy that likes to trust his players, he believes if they're happy and enjoying themselves they'll play well and he seems to be right.

Curry to me seems like the really special element that separates the Warriors from the rest but you're not going to be a historically great team with multiple championships with an average coach.


Great coaches have a great system but they are also great at player management.

These Warriors teams could have definitely suffered from the disease of more but you never really hear any complaints. Draymond doesn’t seem to be the easiest player to manage but Kerr has done well.

Mostly, I think it’s my appreciation for their system. I truly believe their offense gets the most out of everyone (on both ends) because it keeps people involved. They could very easily run Curry pnr all day but they don’t and it keeps the other guys engaged. I don’t care if you’re in rec league or making $20m a year, standing around and watching other guys dominate the ball has a way of disengaging players. The Warriors do a great job of avoiding that pitfall and that’s due to Kerr.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#39 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:38 pm

Black Jack wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Id rather just give Curry all the credit here lol


Yes...call it the Tim Duncan Effect.

Having a truly transcendent star makes everyone else get overrated - teammates, coaches, front office.


Yup because we all saw how that system works when Curry is hurt. It ONLY works because of Steph lol.
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Re: Steve Kerr is a great coach 

Post#40 » by Jabroni Lames » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:44 pm

Kerr has the best offensive player (Curry) and the best defensive player (Green) in the game. Both those guys were never healthy at the same time over the last 2 years. That's a pretty good starting point for any coach.

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